Are RWS Rifles really all that good?

[airgunandy]

I don't want to start a flame war or anything, but I don't get it. Seems like almost everyday I read about someone complaining about some issue with their new RWS rifle. Was thinking about saving up for a model 34 to see what all the hooplah is about, but now I don't know.

Plastic triggers
No lube in the gun
Droopy barrels
Off center barrel bore
Breaking scopes
Slipping scopes
Requirement of special mounting devices for scopes

If a Crosman Quest has droop it's a POS, but the droop on an RWS is a design feature?

Seems like it would be just as much the luck of the draw getting a good one as going to WalmMart and picking up a Beeman dual barrel outfit or Crosman Storm for half the price. Sure it's Chinese and it will probably need work, but the thought of forking over all that extra money and still getting a lemon doesn't make sense to me. Criminy, when Crosman produces stuff that bad, there is no end of griping on the forums, but build it off-shore in Europe and slap a German name on it (even if some parts come from China) and everyone stands in line to pony up the extra cash. And then ya still gotta work on them.

I read posts on the various forums where some poor soul is asking about a specific Crosman, Benjamin, Gamo, Ruger or something that they wanna plink cans with in their backyard.
Invariably, someone will post something like, "Don't buy American or Chinese crap, buy an RWS and avoid all the problems."
Then I read all the posts about all the issues with RWS products.

Sorry for the rant. Guess I'm just too much of a low-budget infidel to understand.

Having too much fun with my Russian and Chinese springers and my American-made pumpers.

[tjk]

YES!!!! tjk

[daved]

I guess it depends on what's important to you, Andy.  Yes, there are issues with Diana (RWS/Umarex is just the importer), but then, there are sometimes issue with even a TX or Beeman.  Truly, despite all the hoopla, the plastic trigger is a non-issue, IMO.  Yes, they tend to ship fairly dry, but then, they don't diesel out of the box, either, so you don't tend to get burnt piston seals.  Yes, the barrel droop can be a pain, but it can be dealt with.  It's not at all uncommon, even with Gamo's.  The major scope issues are much more an issue with the magnums like the 350 and 48/52/54, the medium powered guns like the 34 aren't as much hassle.  

What it all boils down to is, how long do you want to keep your rifles?  Trust me, if you've never handled one of the German rifles, you're in for a different experience.  I've owned three Diana's, 2 rifles and a pistol, and there's no question these are a giant step up in quality over a Gamo or Chinese gun.  These, like the Beemans and a few others, are rifles that will last for years, provided you take care of them, and will probably just get better with age.  

So to answer your question, yes, I think they really are that good.  And if the plastic trigger really bugs you, just wait until mid-year.  The new T06 trigger should be out then, it has a metal trigger blade, and fixes some other trigger issues about the T05 that have always bugged me.   And best yet, it will be a drop in replacement if you happen to have a T05 rifle!  Later.

Dave

[geewhiz380]

u could have problem with any rifle but as mmy 48 .22 its the best rifle i have its accurate ,powerful and the problem to the scope is that the rifle is magnum rated so u need a good scope and a droop compensator which will hold your scope on tight and the trigger is plastic but pretty bgood it moves but its better then some metal ones and im sure many will agree and excellent out the box not like the gamo that u need a trigger change and a tune and has a twang thats louder than the release of the pellet it self .these rws made in germany r excellent shooters just be careful with refurbish ones thats all .yes they all that good.daved i second your post but i find the trigger to be great .

[HNT5]

IMO. The plastic trigger to me is a non-issue. IMO it gets to much play on the internet. Dry guns (they might seem dry to most, but maybe that's all they need) IMO are better than some guns (especially Chinese) that are dripping with lube. They diesel forever and often need a tear down so they can be cleaned up.  Yes droop is built in to alot of European guns (not just Diana's) because they shoot alot indoors at 10M with iron sights. So to someone over there, there is no droop issue, only where people use scopes. The off center barrel, well, if it still shoots accurately, so what. Breaking scopes and slipping scopes.
 Any magnum (and some non-magnum) springers can break a scope or slide it on the rails. It's more to do with the recoil characteristics than the manufacturer. English made Webley Tomahawks had a reputation of busting scopes. My Beeman R-10 broke a BSA scope in 3 shots. They require only adjustable scope mounts for droop as does any rifle with droop. Tom Gaylord helped design the Leapers mount, but it's certainly not a requirement. Yes the Chinese are getting better and improving their quality. But IMO and experience, it is more of a crap shoot buying a Chinese gun than an RWS as far as quality goes.
IMO RWS rifles are a good value for the dollar. Yes there are better guns( as far as blueing, stocks and trigger), but they cost more. Diana's are not the only gun needing a tune out of the box. How many people have you seen post on the forums that they just plunked down $450 or more on a HW/Beeman and sent it off for a tune?
I don't know if you read the Dianawerk Collective forum, but there was a good article from a gentlemen named Hector Medina who visited the Diana factory. Here is a link if you care to read it.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/184474/thread/1240601924/last-1241117971/A+short+visit+to+Mayer+%26amp%3B+Grammelspacher

Just my opinions and experience. Yours and others mileage may vary.

Best Regards

Nathan

[dnttech]

Vert well written, Nathan.  Nice link too.  I sometimes wish I'd have purchased a R9 Goldfinger instead of my Diana, but the Diana suits my needs fine.  Out of the box, she shoots better then I am capable and also cost me quite a bit less then the R9.  As far as fit and finish, I still pull her out of my gunsafe just to sit and look at.....she's pretty.

[Phil_B]

I think they are worth it

[Timmyj1959@yahoo.com]

HNT5 - 5/7/2009 11:53 AM IMO. The plastic trigger to me is a non-issue. IMO it gets to much play on the internet. Dry guns (they might seem dry to most, but maybe that's all they need) IMO are better than some guns (especially Chinese) that are dripping with lube. They diesel forever and often need a tear down so they can be cleaned up. Yes droop is built in to alot of European guns (not just Diana's) because they shoot alot indoors at 10M with iron sights. So to someone over there, there is no droop issue, only where people use scopes. The off center barrel, well, if it still shoots accurately, so what. Breaking scopes and slipping scopes. Any magnum (and some non-magnum) springers can break a scope or slide it on the rails. It's more to do with the recoil characteristics than the manufacturer. English made Webley Tomahawks had a reputation of busting scopes. My Beeman R-10 broke a BSA scope in 3 shots. They require only adjustable scope mounts for droop as does any rifle with droop. Tom Gaylord helped design the Leapers mount, but it's certainly not a requirement. Yes the Chinese are getting better and improving their quality. But IMO and experience, it is more of a crap shoot buying a Chinese gun than an RWS as far as quality goes. IMO RWS rifles are a good value for the dollar. Yes there are better guns( as far as blueing, stocks and trigger), but they cost more. Diana's are not the only gun needing a tune out of the box. How many people have you seen post on the forums that they just plunked down $450 or more on a HW/Beeman and sent it off for a tune? I don't know if you read the Dianawerk Collective forum, but there was a good article from a gentlemen named Hector Medina who visited the Diana factory. Here is a link if you care to read it. http://www.network54.com/Forum/184474/thread/1240601924/last-1241117971/A+short+visit+to+Mayer+%26amp%3B+Grammelspacher Just my opinions and experience. Yours and others mileage may vary. Best Regards Nathan

You just saved me ALOT OF ONE FINGER TYPING!!!! I Must admit,,, I am partial to Diana guns,,, I am in no way "Dissing" others. Tim.

[3n00n]

Timmy has a nice plinker, so does Brandon, and I really like them myself {got more than a dozen} . . .

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4091

[daveshoot]

RWS5g/P5 Magnum

RWS34 Panther .22

RWS48 .20

Diana 24 .22 ( think this counts as RWS?)

I think they are pretty good, to be honest with ya. No problem at all with plastic triggers, never noticed until I read I should feel bad about them. The '48 is the only with perceptible droop and it is one of the best shooting guns I own.

I wouldn't really count RWS94 and 92 since they are Cometas. The 92 is pretty cool. The 94 is another of the best shooting guns I own.

I think any gun is potentially worth tuning and don't hold that against any particular brand. Paul Watts tunes R7s, one of the sweetest air rifles made, and people line up for it. If good is good, better is better. Dianas are great rifles and you feel it the instant you pick one up.

[TCups]

RWS is an importer.  I am not sure if RWS makes a single rifle.  The 34 Panther and the 48 are Diana's, as is the P5 Magnum.  The Diana air rifles and pistols are German made air guns and are generally of good quality.  Diana's do get knocked for the plastic trigger and barrel droop, but while both are characteristics of the Diana's, they are not (at least in my mind and many others as well) signs of a poorly made air rifle.  But as with so many other manufactured goods, price pressure from lower quality competition, primarily Chinese, has taken a toll on some of the very high end air rifles.  English BSA's have been "outsourced" and perhaps even German Beeman's and Diana's will also one day go the way of the Belgium Browning.  Not to say that the newer, less expensive models made in Turkey or Spain or China or wherever labor is cheap aren't necessarily decent air rifles, but being an old guy, I sometimes feel that we are near the end of the "Golden Age" of air gunning.  If you have a well-made German or English air rifle, hang on to it.  Their value can only go up with time.

[daveshoot]

Hate to talk pyros here, but while I cherish a Belgian Browning or two, my BPS 12 ga. was made in Japan. It has been my go-to game getter for about 25 years and is an extension of my will. Fit and finish were as beautiful as a production pump gun gets. It sure shows its age now, which is entirely my fault, but the Japanese knew how to tool up a gun.

I would hate to see Diana go the outsource route, but I think they already are. Bummer. Based on what I've been seeing, the Chinese are getting a lot better at this stuff than the Turks.

Still never had a British AG....

[RedFeather]

Belgium has been known for finely crafted guns (airguns, too) for a couple hundred years.  The Belgian Brownings, be they High Powers, ATD's or shotguns, all display meticulous craftsmanship.  You are talking about makers with generations of employees, journeymen and apprentices.  Browning outsourced the labor on High Powers to Portugal.  While they are nice guns, I would much rather have an all-Belgian High Power, simply because they were so well finished.  The thing is, when you outsource, say like Webley did to Turkey, you lose a valuable asset and that is workforce experience.  You can have the same tooling and blueprints, but the end results will suffer.  Look at the early Turkish guns - Webley in name only.  Diana is a small shop with less than 100 craftsmen, some of whom are apprenticed.  Compare that to BAM which operates out of an idled SKS/AK47 factory with comparatively free labor, little to no overheads or R&D department.  (Hence the price differential.)

Go to the Dianawerke Collective and check out the threads on a recent tour of M&G (Diana) to see what they are doing these days.  You might be surprised.

[leftcoast1]

I think the older guns are a far better value than the current production. The 52 & 54 are way over priced and huge, heavy and bulky. I'd buy a TX or a 97 before I'd buy either one of those. Now as for the the old 34 I have manufactured in 95 she is a fine shooter. I still dislike the stock but she is awsome. She is in my stay pile. If your really concerned about it call Umarex and see what they have refurbed. The 34 is an easy tear down slap some lube in her ans she should shoot for for a long time.

[airgunandy]

Thanks for the input guys. I understand the looks of the polished metal and wood and all that, but will it make me a better shot?    

Guess I'm just trying to justify spending $200 - $300 or so for a real purdy "BB" gun to plink with in the backyard. Kinda like why buy a Mercedes when my Plymouth will get me to work and back just as well?
Think I'll just keep an eye out for a good used one.
Thanks!