GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Airgun Gate => : Bhawanna April 03, 2008, 03:43:03 AM
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here's an article i found on a medical site about airguns penetrating skin ...BE CAREFUL!
Minimal velocities necessary for perforation of skin by air gun pellets and bullets.DiMaio VJ, Copeland AR, Besant-Matthews PE, Fletcher LA, Jones A.
A series of tests were conducted to determine the velocities necessary for lead air gun pellets (calibers .177 and .22) and caliber .38 lead bullets to perforate skin. Human lower extremities were used. Caliber .177 air gun pellets weighing 8.25 grains required a minimum velocity of 101 m/s (331 ft/s) to perforate skin. The energy per area of presentation ratio E/a was 1:86 m X kg/cm2. Caliber .22 air gun pellets weighing 16.5 grains needed a minimum velocity of 75 m/s (245 ft/s). The E/a was 1:3 m X kg/cm2. A round nose, caliber .38 lead bullet weighing 113 grains perforated skin at 58 m/s (191 ft/s). The E/a was 1.95 m X kg/cm2. These studies appear to indicate that lightweight projectiles need greater velocity to perforate skin than do larger caliber, heavier bullets.
PMID: 7175470 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Airguns can kill you...... yea, ESPECIALLY when your other half finds out you just ordered another one!!!!!! Hehehehehe.
Sorry, didn't mean to make light of your post.........
Safety first ALWAYS!
Iz
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I have heard a figure of 300 fps before but I would never guessed a .22 would penetrated easier. I think the weight being equal a .177 would still go in easier. john
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Hello Rodger,
This should come as no surprise, as they were used as Weapons of War as early as 1750, and for hunting before that .
Anyone that owns or shoots an airgun, should always treat these as safely and carefully as a bow and arrow, or any weapon that can cause bodily harm if not used properly !
Safety is always a major concern, when handling anything that fires any projectile !
Remember: Safety First, protect yourself and the people that you care for !
If proper care is taken, and the handler of all types of projectile shooting devices uses proper SAFE HANDLING PROCEDURES, accidents and DAMAGE can and will be eliminated ! And I am certain we would be happy to not harm our loved ones and valued items around the home.
I have always treated every device, as if it were capable of discharging and harming someone or anything !
PLEASE BE SAFE, THESE ARE NOT TOYS !!!
Thanks ALL, end of my safety rant, but I would hate to see anyone harmed needlessly !!
Bill
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izzie,
love your sense of humor...but which is worst? being shot with an airgun or dealing with the rath from hell?...both are painful!
the thing that stuck out in this article was 300 fps penetration. most of our guns are 700 fps or higher!
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"the thing that stuck out in this article was 300 fps penetration. most of our guns are 700 fps or higher!".
Sure, that's why we use them to hunt ;)
A .22 pellet traveling 700fps can go through a squirrel's head at 30yds or a groundhog's head (2.5-3X larger than squirrel's) at 20yds. .177/.22 pellets traveling 300-400fps go right through birds at 10-15yds.
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That's why the 10 rules of gun safety apply to airguns too. Safety first - ALWAYS!
I didn't mean to make light of your post. Just something that popped into my head- doesn't happen often- it's pretty empty.
I just ordered another one- but she's ok with it. I'm still breathing! But she's been sick - her energy is down. Hehe!!!!
Again - SAFETY FIRST -ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!
Iz
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Yes, a .177 pellet should penetrate easier, and deeper, and an EQUAL weight .22 pellet at an EQUAL velocity, due to a higher ballistic coefficient, or sectional density, or both(can't recall).
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But how fast does it have to be moving to penetrate human bone? I know it depends on the type and thickness of bone, as well as the shape.
Turns out, those safety glasses we wear when shooting are a good idea, after all.
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If memory serves me I read somewhere several years ago that it takes 13ft-lbs to penetrate the human skull and that it only takes about 30ft-lbs to kill a 165lb adult with a shot to the body/vital organs. It's not the penetration that kills you, as much as the shock and the trauma to the body and the organs from the impact.
I know in my town (or county don't remember exactly) back in the 80's, there was an article in the paper about a teenager that was shot accidentally by his friend with a Crosman pump rifle (they didn't specify which one - probably a 760 pump) at point blank range while they were trying to clear a jam. The way they were doing it was pumping the gun 10X and shooting it to see if the pellet ejected.. A couple of days later the kid was complaining to his parents that he wasn't feeling well. The kid didn't even know he had been shot. After many tests they finally found a pellet (or BB can't remember which) had entered his liver! The .177 hole was very small and the skin had closed up and almost healed completely to where it wasn't visually noticeable to the kid or its mother that had looked him over! The kid then put 2 and 2 together.. He said he felt something but thought it was the air that hit him since he was only a couple of inches away from the muzzle. They had to operate immediately to remove it and I believe he recovered fully. Now a 760 has approx. a MV of 600-625fps with 10 pumps using a BB (~5gr?) or about 560-570fps with a light-med. weight pellet so say it's about a ~5.5fpe gun with 7.9gr pellets. This will give you an idea of how dangerous even low powered airguns are.
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Here's an article dated Tue. 4 March 2008;
Gun-control debate rekindled after teenage dies from pellet-rifle shot
Winnipeg- The shooting death of a 13 year old boy sparked renewed debate about the hazards of pellet guns and whether they should be controlled by federal gun laws.
Over the weekend Cody was shot and killed by a pellet gun. Cody and a 17 year old broke into a garage and stole the pellet rifle. The rifle fired while they were passing the gun between themselves. The 17 year old fled the area, leaving Cody bleeding to death in a snowy back lane. The 17 year old have been arrested and charged with neglegence causing death and break and enter.
Three sad things about this article;
1) The kid died.
2) The owner of the air rifle will probably not get his rifle back...he'll be lucky if he's not charged....
3) The Federal govt' do control air guns...nothing over 500fps can be sold/given/traded or passed down to anybody. Anybody wanting something that shoots over 500fps needs the signatures of 3 neigbours, a boss, a family member and pass a criminal back-ground check on three levels....Federal, Provincial and Municipal. In addition...must take a gun safety course ($$$) and then apply for a F.A.C...firearm acquisition certificate ($$$) which must be re-newed every 3 or 4 years...meaning more $$$$ outta your pocket.
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Dang, that is really sad that a kid lost his life from a pellet rifle. As a parent I can't even imagine what this kid's parents are going through. The pellet must have struck a major artery or vein for him to bleed to death and probably internal bleeding as well.
This is why I keep all my airguns locked up with the firearms and lock up the room as well when I 'm not home. I don't want my 13yr old and his friends messing with them when I 'm not there or when my wife is upstairs thinking he 's playing downstairs in the family room.
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I keep my Rifles locked up tight and secure but my kids also know that if they go anywhere near them without my supervision there will be a world of hell pain and suffering for them.
It's very sad when a child gets hurt or even worse (killed) due to some persons stupidity and we cant blame the little ones they just think it's cool or want to be like mum or dad who are the people they look up most in the world.
Education and safety and above all it's our jobs as parents to see that our children know and follow these rules.
I don't doubt it for a second that an airgun can kill a human adult, I myself and most of you here have shot things that are rather solid and have said or thought holly crap this things got some power or I didn't think it would go through that, I know I've said it a few times myself, Ya just have to think about it really theres not much flesh and skull between your brain and a 8.3 gr pellet traveling at 8 or 900 fps or a .22 14.5 gr with a lot more energy behind it, Nasty thought really but it happens and it's happened here quite a few times.
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I wonder who the standin was for these tests. Must be pretty well perforated!
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Being a doctor in a casualty department (ER to you in the States) I've seen my fair share of bullet wounds and also air gun injuries not to mention my time in the Royal Marines. Gun shots are plain nasty but air gun injuries can be lethal too. A colleague was involved in a case of a young girl, about eight years old, shot with a .22 airgun from a hi-rise block of apartments. The pellet penetrated her craninum and entered her brain. She died within a few days. I suspect the air gun would have been no more than 12ft/lbs in power. Any pellet doing in excess of 500fps would also easily enter and exit the human eye and strike the brain at 20 yards or so. Quite scary really.
Anyhow, I am sure we are all extra careful and always mindful on the forum :)
Take care,
Alan