GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Hunting Gate => : May 09, 2008, 11:09:55 PM
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a week or two ago I noticed I haven't seen the one particular hawk in our neighborhood anymore. yesterday I found what I think is its leg in our back yard. (white feathers, large claws, about 8" long total)
what animal could/would take out a hawk?
back in febuary I saw a great grey owl the size of a 747 in the very early morning on the way to work but I don't think an owl would take him out. seems too big of a prey for him. he mostly ate only small squirrels (yay!). I haven't seen him since then.
I have now noticed we have a few very large black colored birds around here now, I can't tell if they are ravens or crows, but they are very large. they have been occupying the space our hawk used to sit in.
So, who would take him out?
-Mark
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I would assume perhaps a fox or coyote would be capable of killing a hawk, although I've really never heard of such an event personally. Then again perhaps the bird became injured somehow, died and became food for some scavenger such as a raccoon??? To bad in either case, beautiful birds,,,, hate to see one die for any reason....
Jeff
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That is very curious. I have seen crows taunting a Red Tailed hawk, and (I assume) trying to chase it out of "their" territory, but I'm not sure they could take one in a fair match.
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Maybe some kid in your neighborhood owns a pellet rifle.. That would be a shame.
Gene
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Don't know if you have them in your area, but Great Horned owls will take a hawk, even a large one. And the smaller ones will take smaller hawks and falcons. The hawks are at their worst when the owls are at their best, vision wise, and since they frequently compete for the same prey, the owls seem to go out of their way to kill hawks in their territory. Power lines are the other big killers of raptors of all types, most overhead lines are uninsulated, and several have wing spans sufficient to touch line to line. Feathers are a pretty good insulator, but only if their dry. Later.
Dave
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it really is a shame. I miss seeing that hawk, if that is what this leg was from. I need to do some more research just to be 100% positive, but he is the only one I haven't seen in awhile.
I miss how it always looked like he was "standing gaurd" over my back yard from the tallest oak.
I know many others here have pellet rifles, but we are squirrel hunters in this area (tons of oak trees, the damage done to our landscaping is amazingly horrible).
Can't think of anyone off-hand that would want to get rid of a hawk..........I hope that isn't what happened.
-Mark
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Mark, several years ago a Red-Tailed Hawk exploded on my windshield as it was diving for a quail. I was going about 60 mph at the time and it sounded like a gunshot went off inside the car. I was covered in broken glass, blood and feathers.Hawks that live near residential areas sometimes get hit by cars as they are chasing and diving at small birds,etc. Don't know that this is what happened to "your" hawk but it is one possibility.Not to worry though, another one will soon fill the niche.
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All of the above lol. As said he may have been ill and fallen prey to another varment and owl's can take , seen it myself. Hopefully it wasn't shot.:( Ed
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A big owl can certainly take a small or regular sized hawk especially at night because they have excellent night vision and can surprise the hawk in its nest, etc. After all the owl competes with hawks for some of the food and wouldn't mind taking out its competitors.
Another animal that could sneak up on a hawk is the bobcat but usually only at the time the hawk has caught something on the ground or while feeding on a larger animal like rabbit, etc. before it attempts to pick it up and fly away. My friend's father used to have a log cabin deep in the woods on a hill and a couple of times they caught a glimse of a bobcat but more often than not they found its paw prints. One day during a deer hunt they came upon feathers and a hawk leg with big claws and bob cat paw prints all around. His dad was a great tracker and could identify white tail deer from mule deer and all kinds of animal foot prints and even tell you approximately how large or heavy the animal was.
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I know that crows hate owls, because they prey on the crows at night. I would bet it would be in an owls best interests to get rid of another raptor in his territory.
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right now the finger poiting in the neighborhood is going towards the new crows, but that is all really just guessing.
does anyone have a link to some sort of claw indentification page? a place where I can look at different views and know exactly what I am dealing with?
the bird link on the boards homepage doesn't really show claws.
-Mark
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There are three other possibilities that I did not see mentioned,
One: That this bird is old and died of natural causes ?
Two: Raptors have bazaar breeding rituals of spiraling down from great heights as they mate, I have read that some do not come out of this ritual alive, or unharmed.
Three: Raptors are very territorial and defend their territory, even too the death. When the young reach a certain age, the parents will drive away, and even kill them if they refuse to leave.
I hope this helps, just three other possibilities to consider.
Bill
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I am not ruling anything out at this point, just trying to narrow down what would do it for my own information. I've just never seen this happen before.
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as an update, I came home from work today and found the squirrel I got last night torn to shreds (literally, everything internal was out and all over) behind the garden shed......but I had left him next to the garage when I got him.
Something is really tearing critters up around here. at this point it could really be anything.........ferral cat, crows............I suppose now the leg I found could have been dragged into my yard from anywhere else.
Time to ask the neighbors again if they have seen anything (parts) in their yards recently.
-Mark
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that's sad that your hawk disappeared :(
Initially I probably won't have said anything but now that you mention have your squirrel taken and other small animals getting torn to bits its just my 2 cents but you might be looking at a coyote or red fox.
Right now I've got that problem in my neighborhood. At first people's cats and small dogs were disappearing. Then one morning I woke to find the carcass of my neighbor's cat in my front yard torn to bits. A few days later I found a fawn torn to bits in the woods. Then I started finding duck heads and wings all over the woods which was strange because the nearest lake is like 3 miles away. It didn't take me long to find an actually den and set up a game camera. We've got red foxes and quiet a few. If they can take out ducks like I've been seeing it wouldn't surprise me if they could do the same to a hawk if they caught it off guard.
Brian
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thats a possibility, I would beleive a fox would be around here in minnesota.
it makes sense since I saw one at my work about 5 miles away...........
-Mark
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All the hawks I see killed around here have flown into cars on the highway. My dad had one fly into his fence one time. It apparently broke it's neck, because it was very dead. My dad hated to see that hawk go. He used to enjoy watching it catch squirrels.
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I found out what has been tearing the critters up in my back yard.
@#!%ing cats! Cats!
last night I spotted two neighborhood cats (one half black/white, the other half brown/white) that were tearing up a garbage bag with a squirrel in it I had left back there. When I went back to inspect the area I found bird parts they had brought with them, since those extra parts weren't there when I had mowed the lawn earlier. the squirrel had been dis-emboweld by the cats.
I can't stand cats as it is (I am severely allergic), and its bad enough I know when they are out in the woods they are just there to kill for fun and not to eat, but they are using my yard as their playground.
Now I have to fence the far corner of the yard too!
how do I keep these rotten things out of my yard? they are harassing our cardinals and songbirds too.
-Mark
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Just a suggestion, but a pellet to the head is just as effective on feral cats as it is on a squirrel. Feral cats were what got me to buy my first "adult" airgun, not only do they kill just to be killing (gee, that sounds like another critter on this planet we all know), but they insisted on using my porch and flower beds as litter boxes. And if a not so feral one slips in, oh well, dog owners have to keep their animals under control, the same should be required of cat owner. Later.
Dave
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I agree with you, and thats what some neighbors have suggested. I just want to know if its feral or not first........So I will go on the theory that if it has a tag, I'll just use my live trap and take him to the local animal shelter.
if there is no tag and he keeps messing with my yard and all the other critters, he's got a date with the whisper.
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I know a trick to keep dogs and cats away, but it might keep other critters like squirrels away too.
Take Cayenne chili powder and a little water. Mix the two together and keep stirring until the powder dissolves. You want a somwhat thick mixture, but not too thick. Now tak a spray bottle and pour your mixture in. Spray along your yard and you're all set. The smell of the Cayenne is strong enough to burn their noses so they stay away. I've tried it before and it worked well for awhile. Just re-spray every few weeks or so.
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NIMBY!!! Not In My Back Yard... it's a spray that contains cougar urine and other predator pheromones! Spray it around the parameters of the yard and when animals smell it- they RUN!
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I have tried both of those to keep the squirrels away, and all they did was dip their acorns in it and give me the finger.
-Mark
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I know for a fact the chili keeps cats and dogs away. I wasn't sure if it did anything to squirrels though. If squirrels still come, and the cats stay away, I say it's perfect. You still get to do some shooting, and the cats stay away. :D
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Time to invest in a paint ball gun....that way you won't kill the cats....but it'll sting them. Or SoftAir guns.....but I don't know how powerful those are......
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Softair guns shoot softer than paintball guns. Good thing about paintball guns is you can adjust the velocity.
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PryorDaniel - 6/5/2008 7:02 PM
Softair guns shoot softer than paintball guns. Good thing about paintball guns is you can adjust the velocity.
It also leaves a nice humiliation tag on the cat to remind him/her as well.
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good idea. a paintball gun would also let the owner know (if it has one) that the mongrel has been someplace where it shouldn't.
-Mark
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Big_Bill - 5/12/2008 11:50 AM
There are three other possibilities that I did not see mentioned,
One: That this bird is old and died of natural causes ?
Two: Raptors have bazaar breeding rituals of spiraling down from great heights as they mate, I have read that some do not come out of this ritual alive, or unharmed.
Three: Raptors are very territorial and defend their territory, even too the death. When the young reach a certain age, the parents will drive away, and even kill them if they refuse to leave.
I hope this helps, just three other possibilities to consider.
Bill
Also, if you have anyone who raises chickens, pigeons, or any other game bird-you have a likely suspect.. Used to have some chickens myself that were like pets. The Hawk got two and then suddenly dissapered :-0
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Heck....the cat would showoff his "battle scars" to his buddies. ;o)
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killdawabbit - 6/6/2008 4:23 AM
good idea. a paintball gun would also let the owner know (if it has one) that the mongrel has been someplace where it shouldn't.
-Mark
Of course, that could backfire. Get a strident animal-rights activist who's also a cat owner, and they could come looking for-then go after with legal means-whomever was so cruel to shoot their tabby. I say a date with a lead pellet for the cat would be the all-around most effective solution.
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That's true Rolls Royce.....I never thought about that. Sometimes you just can't be too kind and give them a chance......
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Unless the paintball somehow paints out your name and address magically I think you're in the clear. Cats keep down the population of the smaller and more obnoxious little rodents (mice/rats) that we usually can't effectively control with an airgun. And as for dogs, it's the fault of the owners who let them roam, not the poor dumb dog who doesn't know any better. And as far as I know, using a paintball gun as a method of chasing off strays from your property is not only legal, but encouraged in a lot of places because it's more humane than a lot of other methods.
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It seems we have gone far astray of the topic here,
And as a cat owner and cat lover, I can tell you that feral dogs are the only animal other than Man, that kills for the fun of it. I hunted feral dogs in PA, after a little girl was mauled by a large pack of them.
Cats hunt for food, and since it may be some time between meals it appears that they kill all too often. You seldom see a dead cat that has died of starvation, because they hide in their den, or in a brush pile and die.
Cats seldom have collars, as they spend lots of time removing them ! And because of there method of travel, they have been caught in fences and yard junk when collars have been to tight to remove, they starve to death.
Cats are neat, clean hunters, and I know how hurt I would be if someone shot my cats. So PLEASE be considerate of cat owners, they might be friends of yours !
Bill
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I agree Bill. I 've owned several cats over the years and I never had a mouse, rat, or snakes in or around the house.
They do take their collars off. Some don't like collars at all and will go crazy trying to take them off. They also get caught in fenses or branches and can be dangerous to "outdoor huntng" cats. I 'm certain that house cats get confused for feral cats on many occasions.
Although many cats do eat what they catch, some don't. I had a very well fed cat that ate 2 cans of catfood a day, but she still brought home chipmunks, mice, birds, squirrels and rabbits and dropped them off outside the porch door. Some of them she played with and let them go, some she brought home dead. Some were half eaten but most weren't. She just loved going outside to catch critters. As she got older, she would just watch a squirrel go by half asleep on the porch. When she were younger that squirrel wouldn't stand a chance most of the time. She was a great hunter up until she was 10-11yrs old and I admired her for it. She was small, light and very agile. Nothing got away from her once she set her eyes on it. She lived to a ripe old age of 18. My last cat we kept indoors because because the one before her only lasted 2.5yrs before she got hit by a car and died in the middle of the road 1/2mi. from our house while she was in search of prey. The indoor cat recently died of old age at 16.5.
Feral cats can definitely be a problem and can also kill all the house/pet cats in the neighborhood (mostly the males) if it's a big mean male and wants to mate with the females. I watched a big feral male cat kill both my neighbor's male young cats (about 1-1.5yrs old) in front of my eyes. It was brutal and hair raising. I broke up the 2nd fight with the other neighbor's cat with a broom stick and even then he still wanted to attack the other poor cat and was hissing at me. I had to hit him on the head with the broomstick to let go of the other cat, but it was too late. He had already taken a couple of big chunks off his side (I could see the cat's insides) and had scratched up his head badly that was covered with blood. I waited unitl the neighbor got home and told them what happened. Their cat died on the way to the Vet. A week later that big male feral cat (was almost the size of a bobcat) showed up at my porch again looking to mate with my cat, so I shot it with my 760 Pump in the chest with a pointed pellet from 6-7yds away after I pumped it 10 times. He ran away and I never saw it again. I was really mad at him and was certain it was feral because his hair was all matted and he seemed to have a lot of tics and flees. That was the only time I shot a cat but it looked so dirty and ugly and after watching it kill 2 of the neighborhood house cats, I made the decision to take it out (I 'm sure it died later from infection or lead poisoning if not internal bleeding). It was a hard decision to make and one that I was contemplating for more than a week but it had to be done. This cat was distructive and a killer of other pet cats that were loved and missed. A day or 2 later I learned he had killed the male cat of the neighbor across the street too. One of my next door neighbor's cats he killed was a very nice pure bred Perisan cat that they had paid good $ for. All these other pet cats never stood a chance because they were neutered and had lost much of their testosterone, aggression and will to fight. They were easy pickings for the feral cat that didn't even seem to have a scratch on him.. I 'm glad I was there to put an end to his destructive behavior.
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Yeah there are some feral cats that are just plain dangerous to everything else. If there was a feral cat around killing other cats there's pretty much nothing else you can do unless you want to trap it and turn it over to the humane society (animal control would kill it anyway and at a much greater cost than a pellet, shot shell, or bullet). It's not normal for cats to fight to the death, if that one was killing the other cats it's because there was something wrong with it. Normally when cats fight the loser is allowed to flee by the winner.
What prompted me initially to start looking at an air rifle was the rabbit overpopulation out here AND our cats just don't know how to kill a mouse. After having to use more "hands on" methods to dispatch a couple of mice that got into the house that our housecats had crippled, I decided I wanted something I could use at a distance so that the little crippled rodents wouldn't see me coming at them, panic, and end up in a place I couldn't reach.
All that said, I'm sorry about what happened to that hawk. You probably can't tell for sure if the cats that you believe did it are feral or someone's pets, cats are notorious for not keeping collars on (ours are indoor cats, but they're microchipped anyway). Your best option might be to get some live traps and catch 'em, although that's more effort than just tagging them with a paint ball. If they ARE someone's pets and you tag them with a paint ball it might encourage the owners to keep them inside.
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I now have home video of the cat killing rabbits in my backyard.
clean and neat hunters my ass. that baby rabbit was alive when its intestines were ripped out, and then it was just left there.
I am calling the local animal control, and if they don't react I'll take care of it myself.
-Mark