GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => The Shop => : Gene_SC November 23, 2008, 02:23:45 AM
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I took the Webley/Scott Longbow made in Turkeyout to the shop and stripped her down. The trigger is in pieces and I plan on trying to smooth it and lighten the pull pressure. Also the way the trigger block is made which the spring guide rides against is a very poor design in my opinion. I am going to attempt to make a new trigger block from 6061 aluminum and get rid of the plastic block... Of course I want to integrate the spring guide with the trigger block, similar to some of the euro springers. Really I do not know if I am wasting my time but at least I am going to give it a go. Will try and take some pictures and hopefully do a review on any improvements or failures..:)
Gene
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good luck gene! if you do get her to have a nice trigger, you'll sure have one sweet shooter when you're done!
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Sounds like a great project Gene,,,,,,
when you're done with that shooter pack her up real good, drive down to the post office and ship her off to me..... I'll "test drive" her for a couple of months and make sure she's shooting "up to snuff". Then I'll pack her up real careful and send her to Ed,,, he'll hunt with her for a few months just to make sure I didn't miss anything and then he'll send it back to ya. Of course we are offering these services in order to make sure you are completely satisfied with the rifle :)
Not going for it huh :) ??
Ok,,, how bout I just say good luck with the project and I'll be looking forward to your post - work review... :)
Jeff
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Now that's a project Gene !
I know it will come out GREAT ! And I look forward to your photos and review on this Turkish lady !
Before the R-9, the Webley Longbow was on the top of my want list, but that was when they were still being made in England. :(
Good Luck Buddy !
Bill
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Someone say airgun hunting hehehe. With your skills Gene you should be able to turn out a better trigger system for the Longbow, Keep us posted on your success buddy.:) Ed
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Gene:
I know that is the kind of project you can truly enjoy. Glad you can get away from the forums for a while and do some productive air gun toy tinkering.
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I just might do that Jeff..:) Depending if it will even shoot after I mess with it..:) Thanks guys for all the confidence but I am only human and as far as working air guns go, I do truly love it but far from perfect and I am still working to get my journeyman's ticket. I did take the day for my self and did allot of tooling and work in order to attempt making a piece of crap air rifle into at least something that resembles a decent shooter. Worked most of the day on the trigger and boy what a mess it was..:) To start with I found the trigger body housing was tweaked after I got all the guts out. The trigger blade itself was nice and gold and shiny but was real rough cast with lots of mold marks and burs all on the sides. Evidently they made the trigger housing wider than the trigger blade itself. Guess they had to allow for the poor stamp job of the trigger housing during manufacturing. So I spent hours working off all the roughness from the sear catch to sear lockup, safety mechanism, etc etc. One of the biggest problems with this trigger is that they used to large of a spring that has stiff wire. Very hard to compress. It did not allow for the rolling of the sear from the trigger lock. I changed the spring to a lighter smaller wire spring that was 1/32" shorter. I made up a washer that was .006 thick to take up the extra room between the trigger blade and inside of housing. All surfaces were polished. Now instead of a 1/8" side to side play we now have nice free floating trigger blade. And again back to the trigger block itself. I wanted to make a new trigger block out of aluminum but decided this time not to do it. I made some small mods to the existing block and changed out the detent ball that they used which was to small and dug into the spring loaded recess hole in the plastic. I made a new poppet style plunger which actually sits in the spring to negate the spring from canting which was one of the reasons I wanted to make a new trigger block assy... The spring would cant and the ball would dig into the plastic when the auto safety would go on when gun was cocked. Oh well that worked out great and has a great feel to the detent now. After trigger was completely done and ready to install and test, I started working on the spring guide. Since I am putting in a new JM spring, I needed to make the diameter of the guide a bit larger. Also wanted a good fit on the nipple that it would seat on the front of trigger block.
I will pick up later this week I hope and finish up the Longbow. I ran out of time today and need to rest because I have full plate of work ahead of me tomorrow. Here are some pictures of the pieces. Maybe you can make heads or tails out of them..:)
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It's coming along great buddy and the guide looks much better then the stock one.:) I was looking at the trigger part's and If I remember right my Winchester has some part's that are the same or close, could be wrong but when I seen the trigger laying there you gave me some idea's on some mod's, thank's.:) Jazzed about seeing it all finished up and getting your take on her.:) Ed
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Looks good Mr.Gene!!!
I've been doing quite a bit of mill and lathe work lately too, but most of it has nothing to do with airguns :0 I usually reserve myself a little time at the end of the day after normal business hours to knock out a project or two at work, but lately by the time normal business hours are over I just want to go home and sleep.
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Ya Ed I failed to mention that the Turks made a few of the parts for the Longbow as universal parts. They are interchangable with other Webley air rilfes or what ever they decide that will just get by and work..:) I thought that was pretty cheesy considering it retails for around $400.00 US. The trigger block is also another part that is probably used in other air rifles because of the way it is made andis not specific to the Longbow.
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gene, it does look like a similar trigger ass. to the powerline/winchesters...you think these mods can be done to powerlines also?(the spring, and spacing).
can't wait to see how it comes out!
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Ok here is the final results of the Webley/Scott repair, mode and tune. Early this morning I finished up the last few details that I wanted to do to the Longbow before I put the stock back on. In my last update I mentioned that the trigger housing was tweaked. Well after putting the trigger all together and adding a .006 custom fit washer along side the trigger blade, found when putting the stock back on that the trigger blade was hitting the inside of the trigger guard. So I had to file the inside of the trigger blade guard. so the trigger would clear it. After it was together, I tested the trigger and it would hang up when I pulled it. So after removing the guard and putting it back on several times I finally got full smooth trigger movement. First shot and wack..:) Sounded like a real good springer sound after a tune. That was not all. The trigger broke crisply at and average of 3 lbs. I had left some free travel in the blade but it felt a bit creepy so I took all the free play out. Now I cocked it and squeezed the trigger and a very nice crisp trigger. I put about 50 rounds through her and then proceeded to the chrony. I was getting a bit higher numbers than before I started and very consistent as well. Average fps was 811. Before the tune I was getting around 790 fps but with a higher deviation. I had to get started to work so did not do any targets to see what pellet she liked best but I will very soon.I am pleased at the way the Longbow shot with no twang, buzz or metal noise. The trigger has changed 180 degrees and is well within what a good trigger should feel like.
Gene
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Well we had no doubt buddy that you would get the trigger and shooter right where you wanted it.:) What's next on your tune list for yourself and we will need some pic's of this shooter also hehehe, we may have seen the same shooter several times but you know how airgun addict's are lol. Ed
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Nice work Gene!! I was particularly interested in this post. I have Turkish Patriot and I do not like the trigger as well. The trigger is exactly the same as in Longbow. When I bought it the trigger was very stiff and I decided to make it lighter as well and experiment with it a bit. I actually took the safety mechanism out and trigger got very sensitive. I just touch it and it goes off. Do you have any idea why?
Gene, did you put new piston seal in there as well? Did you get it from JM? If so, do they match Tukish Webleys or you have to resize it? Did mainspring match as well?
Thank you for sharing with us
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That was fast Gene,
Nice Job ! I thought it would take a little longer, but I guess it helps when you know what your doing :)
Bill
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Bill, I was determined to get the Longbow to shoot like a $400.00 air rifle..:) I was lucky and only paid about $300.00 plus shipping but still I was stuck with it the way it was and would not sell it or trade it to someone like it was. Now I canhonestly say after all the work it shoots like it should now..:) Next to see if I can hit a target with it..:)
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Thanks Anatoliy. Glad to pass on some good results so others can fix there Turkish Webley/Scott air rifles. First did you take the trigger out of the trigger block or did you just slide the pins back enough to pull the safety linkage out? If that is how you did it then more than likely it is sensitive because that safety acts as a spacer as well. If you notice the trigger probably has about a 1/4's side play in it as it is now. Also the safety acts as a stop for the trigger blade. It will only allow the trigger to pull back so much. I used a die grinder and took some off of the contact point of the safety just below the top piece of safety. With the stock off you can see where the trigger hits the safety arm when safety is off. My Safety still works as designed. Not only the trigger is the same but the piston is the same one. They cut slots in both sides of the piston in order to use that piston in other models of Webley/Scott air rifles. Yes I did resize a seal but you have to be very very careful when doing this. Process time took me over 1 hour until I got the right fit. Yes I did use a new JM spring.
Note: Seal resizeing: I would only perform this on my air rifles and not a clients air rifle tune. You have to make a jig in order to do this correctly. It has to be on the money and no runout or you will end up wasting your time. Most seals are of the parachute type with exception of a few. The finished seal has to be percise.
Hope this helps
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Sounds like another great project. I'm hoping to hear similar results from the Beeman Vulcan I sent you.
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The trigger parts look the same as a Walther Falcon Hunter (Hatsan). Never noticed if the Falcon had another slot milled into the piston. it did have the cheezy plastic guide/breech block assembly! It also had a HEAVY tophat. The gun was dropped prior to my tuning it and won't shoot for beans! So I don't know if I flubbed it or the gun was buggered before I got it.