GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Gamo Gate => : November 25, 2006, 11:10:23 PM
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Hi Guys; a , a newbie on your forum, which I didn't know existed until yesterday. I had been following the Yellow and posted the following question, not knowing about the politics over there. Needless to say, the only posts that appeared mentioned the screw and spring modif. Some PMs explained the politics story and so for my first post, I would like to repeat the question. I do not want to create arguments, but would simply like some honest appraisals from anyone who has actually tried at least two of the modifs. I have edited my question to remove names and hopefully avoid possible politics.
"I'm pretty sure that Santa is bringing me a CFX Royal for Christmas and I will no doubt be looking at a trigger modification.
Given that there are three aftermarket mods. frequently mentioned, plastic(?) insert and screw, screw nut and spring and the complete trigger blade, is there anyone out there who has tried at least two of these mods and can make some constructive comparison please? Cost is immaterial, I just want to find the best, first time. I have no doubt that all three are good and I don't want to start a slagging match, but any constructive comments would be welcome. "
Thanks for your understanding, guys.
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Derek
Welcome to the GTA forum. We consider our forum to be a mature, objective forum. I am sure some of our members will chime in on your post. We all like and learn from each others objective views on all products.
Anyway Derek you will find allot of air gun info in our library. Your choice of the CFX Roya is a good one in my opinion. I own two of them and one synthetic..:) One CFX Royal .177, CFX Royal .22 and CFX Synthetic .177. I have the GTX and GRT triggers in all three. The CDT trigger made a world of difference in all my Gamo's, "13 total" :). Guess I like Gamo's.. hehe I had these trigger long befor the spring nut and screw trigger and also Peterdragans trigger. Peterdragan is one of our seniour members here and his products are worth checking into. CDT has a great trigger but I can not compare, because I have not used the others.
I do know that the GRT and older GTX triggers are sold all over the world and as far as I can tell they have turned an ordinary production trigger into a trigger that some say matches the stock triggers in the $1000.00 plus big boy air gun match rifles. You will find some interesting post in our forum about CDT's triggers, as well as Peterdragan's mods and parts.
So, Derek, welcome and we look forward on hearing about your new CFX when you get it.
By the way Derek, this forum is our members forum. So now that you are a member you now can enjoy freedom of your personal views.
Gene
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Thanks for the welcome Gene. Sounds like it is a completely different place to "the other side"!! Actually a couple of others told me the same thing yesterday.
Edit for addition:-
How strange; my reply on the other side "thanking" them for editing my post has been deleted!! KGB in the States?
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Hey I like that, the KGB got a lot on my posts also.
I post on alot of different forums and have never had a post deleted except on the yellow gamo forum.
The KGB is getting real bad over there , if they don't watch it they will lose more posters than they already have. People are starting to notice the posts disapearing and asking why.
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Cheers Rich; it feels better over here already!
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Hi, Derek, glad you found your way here, welcome aboard. I got to thinking about it, Rich is the only one I know has used 2 of the different mods. Of course, since he makes one of them, he might be just a little bit biased :-)! Anyway, good luck, and we'll see ya around.
Dave
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mention my name "Charlie", or CharlieDaTune, the GRT-III trigger or my website over there. Your almost guaranteed to get deleted or even totally gutted. Also, any posts that are made there regarding the Mini-GTX that are not positive or that has any issue with it's quality, efficiency or whatever is deleted. What it means is that others cannot express their opinions if it is not favorable to the one's that it benefits. Here however, you can post you comments or questions without fear of being slaughtered as long as it's within the rules. And we don't make our rules as we go along just to fit certain individuals nor are the rules bent or disregarded to favor a couple individuals for their convenience or at their whim. Here, we are not afraid of the truth and welcome it as long as it's on the right GTA forum.
Derek....welcome to your new home...and we're glad to have you.
Oh....and I like the comparison to the"KGB". It fit's and I think that should stick. KGB it is....lol...
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Yeah I noticed it as well. One guy had posted pic's of his new Gamo Hunter and had mentioned that the trigger was replaced with a GRT III.....and it wasn't like he made a lot of comments about the trigger either; as I remember, it went something like this: I just got my new Gamo Hunter air rifle and put Charlies trigger in....then he went on to say how happy he was with the gun...that was it! I went back a couple of days later looking for his post to view his photos again and I couldn't find it. I then came to realize that it was deleted because of a "passing" mention of Charlies trigger...not only his post but everyone who had responded as well....I couldn't believe it. Had it not been for a couple of the guys on that forum going out of their way to help me (on more than one occasion) I would've probably been finished with that site then. I'll give it a little more time, but that definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. :p
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Well Mark, if you want to keep in good graces with your buddies in that forum just don't mention CDT or trigger or even my name or this forum. That way you can enjoy yourself with out being banned or ur posts deleted.. hehehe....... Oh, I might add maybe you should not mention Peterdragon or his trigger either.. :)........ Just stay within that neutral zone and you will probably not be touched .... But don't think you are special either with those guys..... hehehe
Gene
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I have tried the screw and spring mod, the bushing mod, and peterdragin's insert. I was not too happy with the bushing mod, and the screw and spring seemed mickey mouse as it did not seem to be positivly located. Finally I put in peterdragin's insert and initially I thought it was too light, but after some practice I am finding the second stage with ease and it is as crisp as can be. I was so happy I ordered the whole shabang, spring, guide kit and .20 barrel from him. I highly recomemend it. I sure wish I would have compared the insert with Charlies trigger as well but I stoppped when I found what I liked.
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Hey Frizzlefry
I am like you, I started with the CDT GTX and then the GRT and never looked back....:) Got 12 Gamo's with 12 CDT triggers and very happy with them. Each one is adjusted to the particular Gamo that it is in. :)
Best of Luck
Gene
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If your comfortable taking the upper sear out, you can bend the spring as shown in the included pictures,it makes the trigger pull about one third heaver and I found it just right because it makes the second stage more pronounced.
If you don't feel like you can do it just email me and I'll send you a word doc. that has all the instructions on how to do it with pics.
And Gene your .177 barrel is on the way !
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Nice to read uncensored free speech!
Rich, after your secondary spring mod in the previous post, do you know what the trigger weight comes out at please?
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It's about a one pound pull or slightly less..
Don't have a trigger scale but it feels about the same as theTimney trigger in my 7 mm mag mauser, and it's set up at one pound pull, at least that's what it was set up as when I built it 30 years ago.
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I remember your post on YF about the trigger mods and the "chastisement " you incurred from at least two of the 'heavy dudes' at control central. It seems several of my posts mysteriously never made it to the forum, but they did turn up in the "search" mode only because I knew some Key words.
Incidentally I have on at least two or more occasions been able to "sneak in " reference to C Tunas anodized trigger blade on the Y.Gamo forum as well as a reference to his barrel bending jig. Like I said on yellow Gamo forum, you can get a cheaper trigger fix than GRT-lll, But you can't get a Better looking one.
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You better watch it or the Yellow Gestapo will get you, they have spies around.
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.You can't go wrong on this site great advice and great members. Gotta go , theres some men at the door with ss uniforms on. :o
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Just installed the CDT GRT-lll on the Shadow 1000 I got a couple of weeks ago. 10 minute job including filing the rough edges off the triggerhousing. What a difference! Same release, same spot every time: makes shooting the rifle so much more fun. No more trying to hold on target forever hoping the gun will go off SOMETIME SOON. Definitely going to have to do a pellet test now to find out just how good this gun can shoot. Thanks, "Charlie".
Ric G.
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Just received and installed Rich form Mich's trigger insert. Quick easy job and now the trigger feels like a dream. Can't understand why Gamo have not done something similar, but that is their problem!
For anyone a bit wary of playing with the trigger, don't worry! It looks worse in the photographs than it is. It was very straightforward, removing the blade and the secondary sear (to bend/stiffen the spring) and no problem at all re-assembling after removing sharp edges and lubing.
Go for it! It changes the gun completely.
I have no doubt that CDT's unit is as easy and works as well; it does look cooler than the Gamo blade too. Take your choice!
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I had the trigger for a couple of weeks, stalling cause I thought it would be a job.
The gun is a .22 cal Hunter 880 that I've had since '98.
It was so easy, and the result was so profound, that I chastised myself for taking so long.
It was like getting a new gun. The accuracy improvement was amazing!
5 pellets - One hole!
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Thanks Alard.
Something that is overlooked and something that few people are aware of is that it's not just the trigger pull that is important (and only half of the solution of the Gamo trigger issue), but also the ergonomics of the trigger blade itself that is just as important (possibly even more important) and contributes so much to the improved accuracy. It is why the GRT-III is so successful world wide. It took months of designing and testing then redesigning until we got it right. We have been looking for ways to improve it even more using computer generated designing and testing but just don't seem to be able find any that could apply to "mass" production. The only thing that we could generate was a fitted blade curvature custom fitted for each individual which is of course not practical and cost prohibitive. :o
And of course it is far far superior to the poor ergonomic design of the original Gamo trigger blades geometry and resolves the other half of the Gamo trigger problem and has such a major impact and contribution to the improved accuracy. As it stands now, the GRT-III design is such that it accommodates nearly 100% of all users and we will always be trying to further improve it. :D :D
With that in mind, every purchaser of the GRT-III trigger blades sold around the world including yourself, is asked to send their comments on the GRT-III trigger and installation in an effort to find ways to improve the GRT-III trigger blade. They are few and far between. In addition, we have GRT-III dealers in three different countries around the world that will forward any useful ideas that might be presented to them. We are always be looking for ways of improvement that will benefit everyone.
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I disagree on the ergonomics of a Gamo trigger but that’s just a personal preference, the curve of the gamo trigger is just a little more at the tip of the blade than the GTR.
I bet that less than 10% of the people shooting air rifles have never shot a competitive target rifle so they would not know or care of any difference in the ergonomics of a trigger blade.
They just know that it is far superior to a stock Gamo trigger and they like the way it helps them shoot the rifle and improve their groups, whether it be an insert or a complete trigger blade.
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Hey Rich, basically you are saying that 90 percent of us are not savy enough to realize what a good ergonomics trigger would do for us..:) One thing for sure is that 90% will eventually realize how a good trigger blade will improve there shooting experience. I for one am in that 90%, and with thirteen of the trigger blade replacements of CDT's am a much better shooter than with the stock trigger. I personally do not like the feel of the stock trigger on the Gamo rifles.
I do own some expensive European air guns and the ergonomics, and breaking point are as superior as the CDT's GTX and GRT III triggers.
I am not saying your Gamo trigger mod does not work great but my point is that the CDT trigger is much more pleasant to my fingers than the stock trigger. Your Gamo trigger mod may perform well but it is still basically a fix on the Gamo stock trigger.
The way I feel is that once you have had the best you leave all the rest...:)
Gene
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I am saying that 90% of the people have NOT shot a rifle, any rifle, with a competitive trigger, and could care less about a ergonomic trigger blade, they want a nice light good feeling two stage trigger pull, if it's a CTD trigger or an insert in the trigger, it makes no difference.
You can't say which one is better because you have never shot a Gamo rifle with anything but the stock trigger or the CDT trigger. The Gamo owners want a trigger that you don't have to put your trigger finger on a work out plan to make your trigger finger stronger.
You would be a better shooter with an insert also over a stock trigger. How do you know it's the best when you have NEVER shot a Gamo rifle with a trigger insert ?????
Before I started to sell the inserts I had two Gamo rifles with GTX II triggers, I sold them because I preferred the feel of the insert better. I still own one in my 1250 I bought and if I could get the stock trigger blade for it I would sell that one also. I built two 1250's with .20 barrels and the customers rifle had a stock trigger with my insert and his feels better than mine as far as the feel of the trigger goes, but that is just a personal preference.
If people want the shiney gold trigger so be it, and if they want a trigger insert mine or somebody elses so be it. If you want to twist words around to suit your needs so be it, I really don't care because I am still selling the inserts.
I got into basicly the same type of discussion on the yellow Gamo forum about my insert and the screw,nut, spring thingy with one of Steve's little clones and since that discussion I have got orders for 9 trigger inserts.
End of Comments.
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Steady guys, don't let it get like the Yellow! I know you all have vested interests, but as an outsider,
I feel it's horses for courses and that there is room for all three. Two possibly dependent on budget, including the price paid for the gun and the other for whoever wants to forum search for the details and rummage through their junk box.
I've got Rich's mod. (original version); it's excellent. Someday later I may go for CDT's for the bling factor on my CFX Royal, but with respect, if I had only paid $75 for a lesser Gamo as is the case with some of you lucky guys in the sensible market place, I probably wouldn't pay almost 50% of the gun price for a trigger.
I'm trying to offer an impartial and objective point of view and don't want to offend anyone.
PS This was written after Gene's last post and before Rich's.
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Let's not lose the plot here and become what we have migrated away from. If we all did the same mods and only the same mods were available it wouldn't be all that much fun to mod anymore. Let's try to keep that point in mind before we get upset because I feel what works for me should be what everyone else should use. I mean, if you guys all used what I use then you'd have some wicked cool guns, but we'd all have the same guns:) Not much fun, in my opinion. As far as price I can't comment there...I have a $50 Cr2240, with a $30 breach, $25 bolt, $50 muzzle brake, $23 power adjuster, $20 misc Crosman 2260 parts, and what would be a $300+ walnut stock...so I have some $400 into a $50 gun, let's not even start talking about my $600+ QB78. I myself don't see a $31 trigger to be out of line with any other airgun mod I've purchased, nor do I see a $8 insert that makes my trigger feel better to be out of line, it just comes down to what "I" prefer, heck I might rummage through my trash bin and find a nut, screw and spring to put in my next Gamo. The point I'm making is that I don't want to visit a forum where all I hear is different camps arguing about what is "best". I would probably have a jar full of Steve_NC Debouncers if he wasn't such a *_*_*_*_*_* as I have no doubt in the technology, I'm just tired of hearing about them. Let's keep it constructive and fun, isn't that why we do this, fun? Go shoot your guns, have fun, keep the arguments and hurt feelings between the complaintants....fun fun fun!!!
Just my $0.02
btw:did I mention I won $76 on lottery scratchers last night...hehe, that other $74 S1K is still at WallyWorld I bet:)
Dan
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I was certainly not knocking anybody else’s ideas or products. I was simply pointing out that there is more than just the pull weight that makes a good trigger and something that needs to be considered if a person wants and/or expects to really improve not only less trigger pull, but even more consistency and accuracy in relationship to their trigger and firing cycle. And as one poster stated, probably 90% are not aware of that or it's significance or importance. However, that’s why so much attention is paid to the trigger in match shooting guns and pro's as well as serious minded shooters and precisely why we placed such a great degree of importance in the GRT-III trigger blade design. It's simply there and available to those that want that advantage and improvement. But...it's certainly not an absolute must for everybody. :)
When we were designing the GRT-III trigger blade, we weren't just looking for improved trigger pull. That was the intent of the older GTX triggers and was the simple part. Later, in the GRT-III blade, we placed a big emphasis on over all improvement including side play, pivot, blade width, finger pad, radius, and curvature as well as the pull weight. When it comes to the importance of the end results of accuracy and improvement in consistency, ergonomics of the trigger and it’s geometrical design is very important. The GRT-III trigger blade meets all of that and it was just something that was not possible and we could just not achieve using the stock trigger blade.
But with that being said, almost anybody that shoots, whether it’s a powder burner or a BB gun, whether it’s at paper targets, tin cans, Aspirins, poker chips, pennies or dimes, critters or whatever, would like their gun to be as accurate and consistent as possible. That’s what makes it win in the eyes of the shooter. If you are a marathon runner and wear a size eight fitted shoe, you certainly can't expect to win wearing a size six foot pinching shoe or a size twelve loose fitting shoe. You can still wear the shoes, and maybe even run but your shoe has to fit if you expect to perform at your best and perhaps win. :o
As I stated earlier, I’m certainly not knocking anybody else but rather pointing out what can make a difference and what the difference in a trigger “mod†verses a “redesigned†trigger blade is and it’s affect in the application. There is nothing wrong with a trigger “mod†and they do work in so far as a lighter trigger pull and they have certainly have their place for those that wish not to spend the extra for the difference and I certainly don't argue that. But for those that are willing to spend the difference and as many GRT-III trigger blade owners around the world will tell you, it’s worth the investment for those that can afford it and/or want to improve their shooting skills.8)
And if I were marketing a trigger “modâ€, I would certainly use it rather than a competitions trigger, just as I prefer to use the GRT-III trigger blade rather than a trigger “modâ€.
Besides, it's all in the fun and challenge of making improvements for the airgunning community as a whole. Something for everybody.
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Well Rich, I did not mean to ruffle your feathers...:) By the way I do know the difference, but that was left out of my previouse post. I have my perosonal opinion which I keep to myself. Basically, a preference for certain triggers is up to the individual. And for sure not for anyone to tell another or infer that a particular trigger or other part is right for them. As others have also added to this thread, we do not need another Yellow Forum... Yikessss... I think we are all mature enough here to maintain respect for others opinions. Dang Rich, if I was poor old boy with not much money, and only want to shoot at tin cans, I would be using your trigger insert. But since I have some money to burn, I am almost like Dano...:) Got a $100.00 Shadow and gots $300.00 in it... hehe. Also like the .20 cal L/W barrel's I have bought from you. They are the ultimate in accuracy for me.
So with that said I will keep buying the GRT III trigers because I love the feel and breaking point. I will continue buyin those .20 cal barrels from you because I can not imagine finding another barrel with that kind of quality and accuracy. I will alway give credit to where I think the credit is deserved....:)
Anyway Rich, keep on truckin buddy with your wears...:) Keep on postin but I will always have my personal opinions..... hehe
Gene
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That's right Phill
The GTA forum is for our members. And if Rich, CDT or anyone else wants to sell there products here, that is great. But they will have to have skin thick enough to understand that not everyone may like what they sell.. :) We do prefer that they be put into the classifieds. They also should expect a degree of objective criticism on the GTA, but we will not allow blatant badgering or insults. Anyone can give there opinion on anything as long as it is constructive. Sometime our vendors may be a little thin skinned but they all should know that not everyone is gonna like everything they sell........:) But everyone is also intitled to there opinion and views as well..:)
Gene
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...that both products are available, both products deliver what they promise, and both products are quite reasonably priced.
Rich's advantage is price. Charlie's big advantages are aesthetics, ease of installation, and possibly the whole "trigger ergonomics" thing, about which some people will care about and others not.
And most importantly, I have never heard - either here or anywhere else - anyone who claims that either product didn't work as they should.
So let's not get into a nonsensical tiff. People will buy what they prefer, and as long as nobody misrepresents either what they're selling (or what the other guy is selling!) we gots no reason to get all agitated about it!
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lets all go out and shoot something,and I dont mean eachother he he . Tomorrow's a brand new day. :) :) :) :) :) Ed
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Well said Vince... So lets get on with business as usual. We have a great year ahead of us and just look at all the new stuff we gets to buy... hehe
Gene