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Politics and Religion => Politics And Religion Discussion => : 3n00n January 16, 2009, 09:30:07 AM

: Freedom or control?
: 3n00n January 16, 2009, 09:30:07 AM

Flip of a coin? Or might it require an effort? (http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif)

http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment (http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment)

: Re: Freedom or control?
: JWC January 16, 2009, 10:24:13 AM

Nice video; that's a basic introduction to why I don't support either major political party.

: Re: Freedom or control?
: shadow January 16, 2009, 10:59:46 AM

Are there still political parties around?, we just sit around the campfire and pick a leader for the tribe.At least I know The chief we pick will have are backs when the animals attack and there are some animals lurking around the government.:( Ed

: Re: Freedom or control?
: TCups January 16, 2009, 12:47:26 PM

A very good post, sir.  But I am afraid most of the folks are out there clamoring for "bread and circuses"  and we are about to see the results.

: Re: Freedom or control?
: Gene_SC January 16, 2009, 01:06:05 PM

I guess I was always right.... Republic stands for less government where democracy stands for more government. So where do we fit in..(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif)

: Re: Freedom or control?
: JWC January 16, 2009, 01:38:12 PM

We're a constitutional republic that's well on its way to something else.  The government ignores the Constitution (http://'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWCQhAx_U38'), the people look the other way (or cheer it on) when it oversteps its bounds, and too many of us tend to see the government as something that takes care of us and gives us things, rather than an entity that should be viewed with suspicion as the biggest danger to freedom and rights (the attitude of Jefferson or Patrick Henry).

: Re: Freedom or control?
: erskine January 16, 2009, 02:35:24 PM

TCups - 1/16/2009  8:47 PM  A very good post, sir.  But I am afraid most of the folks are out there clamoring for "bread and circuses"  and we are about to see the results.

Aye, bread and circuses for sure...

… Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses

 

… iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli uendimus, effudit curas; nam qui dabat olim imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, panem et circenses.

(Juvenal, Satire 10.77–81)

TCups, your quote is profoundly appropriate. We have come full circle. Nobody is absolutely sure who first came up with this but it is worth repeating, and I will attach a graphic that shows the concept.

A democracy proceeds through eight stages. They proceed from "bondage" to "faith" by suffering. They proceed from "faith" to "courage" by hope. They proceed from "courage" to "liberty" by war. They proceed from "liberty" to "abundance" by work. They proceed from "abundance" to "complacency" by satisfaction. They proceed from "complacency" to "apathy" by excess. They proceed from "apathy" to "dependence" by sloth. They proceed from "dependence" to "bondage" by greed.We are at greed.

 

Mind you that comment is not aimed at any person here. I am talking in general terms about the state of our nation. Let us hope that we have elected a president who is not willing to live up to all of his campaign promises.

I for one will be praying for the man. I did not vote for him, but I want him to be a good President. I want him to make good decisions and I will give the decision of my fellow Americans (who elected him) the respect that I would want them to give the man I voted for, had he won.

: Re: Freedom or control?
: TCups January 16, 2009, 03:33:42 PM

Well, it really doesn't matter much what President Obama does at this point. The last few months have been absolutely, profoundly and jaw-dropping significant  The government now owns the most of the nations banking industry and the mortgage industry, and shows no sign of slowing down on other "bail outs".  The Democrats House and Senate are stumbling over each other to see how fast they can spend quite literally trillions of dollars that they don't have.  With the proposed "tax breaks" Obama has proposed and the Congress will undoubtedly pass, the percentage of those who, net, pay no income taxes will, for the first time exceed 50% and there will be no turning back.  Socialism has usurped us faster than I could ever have imagined.

Her is a clue.  Consider medicine and the cost of medical care.  The cost is astoundingly high.  Why?  Because the government runs the system and every paying customer pays for several others who pay nothing and the cost of medical care becomes grossly inflated. The same thing is about to happen to the mortgage industry and a huge sector of the free economy.   We are in the calm before the storm and there is about to be a huge redistribution of the wealth.  I fear what is to follow.  Hunker down, folks.  acta alea est.  The die is cast.  Be prepared to give away ever more of what you earn and what you think you own.  Your future, your kids future and generations to come have already been mortgaged to the hilt and we can't pay the note much longer.  A government strong enough to provide everything the people want is strong enough to take away everything you have.  And by the way, if you haven't figured it out, your "stimulus package" is going to be inserted anally, a la Barney Frank.  Enjoy the circus.

: Re: Freedom or control?
: JWC January 16, 2009, 04:03:01 PM

TCups - 1/16/2009  10:33 PM

Well, it really doesn't matter much what President Obama does at this point.

All indications are that, despite all the talk about "change," we're going to get more of the same kinds of policy that we've been under for the past several decades.

Real, positive change would include:

• Aggressive spending cuts, at home and abroad (and no new spending).  Review current Federal laws, policies, and departments through the lens of the Constitution, with an eye towards "does the Constitution even authorize the Federal government's involvement, here, or is this an area reserved to the States and the people?"
• Cessation of the Fed's inflationary free/fiat money approach.  A sound monetary policy (http://'http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-466210540567002553') would prevent an awful lot of waste, excess, and foolishness (both economic and political) all by itself.  Kick Keynes and Krugman to the curb, and starting listening to Austrian school economists like Peter Schiff (check out this video of Schiff predicting the current economic crisis (http://'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw') and all the other talking heads ridiculing him)
  
• Cessation of futile attempts to prop up prices and over-valued markets through intervention (including bailouts and nationalization).  (Let the market work and sort out the malinvestments -- don't perpetuate them.  Those labor and capital resources need to be reallocated.)
• Cessation of half-baked interventionism in the free market.  What you end up with is a "pseudo free market" that doesn't work like it should, and then the "free market" takes the blame when the crap hits the fan.
• A use of the "bully pulpit" to educate citizens as to why these steps are beneficial and necessary


It's no accident that this list is full of concepts like "cease, cut, and stop."  Don't hold your breath, though...




The last few months have been absolutely, profoundly and jaw-dropping significant...



Yeah, I think so, too.



We are in the calm before the storm and there is about to be a huge redistribution of the wealth.  I fear what is to follow.  Hunker down, folks.  acta alea est.  The die is cast.  Be prepared to give away ever more of what you earn and what you think you own.



"Think you own" is right on the money...so to speak...