GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => The Shop => : ronbeaux January 20, 2009, 12:42:45 PM
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After many years of shooting I've decided I want to delve into tuning. I've allways let someone else do this and I've always been pleased with the work they did. Even won using the airguns they tuned. Point is, I need a hobby. Don't fish, don't deer hunt, don't golf, don't go anywhere unless the Wife is with me, and I like it that way. So unless we are off BBQ'in, I am bored and looking for something to keep me occupied. And at the house.
Soooo. I got this nice area out in my garage begging for a shop. I've read everything I can find in the Shop and Liibrary for all the info I can find and I'm ready to take a plunge. Not to compete with other tuners, but to keep me busy and away from a TV.
First thing I did today was gather materials for a spring compressor. Breaux guided me in the right direction on a Mini Lathe(which will have to wait for awhile) and other stuff.
If you were starting out getting setup, what would you guys recommend I need to get started?? My first project is to do a complete tune on my new TF97, including the fire lapping of the barrel. I got basically zero now as far as tools so any and all suggestions are welcome.
Ronbeaux
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Oh Boy!! New tools!! Quality time in the hardware store! Brownells! Midway! LOL!
Beginner's gunworks toolkit and "stuff" per TCups, (just glancing over at the work desk in the gun room).
I don't really do tunes, but I do work a bit on some of my own air rifles. Here goes . . .
Money
Spring compressor
Dremel tool with lots of bits, grinders, cutters, buffers, polishers
Full set of quality hex dirvers, metric and SAE
Gunsmith's hammer, brass/plastic heads w/ brass punch and drift sets
Gunsmith's screwdriver set
Torx driver set
Brake cylinder hone, drill extension
Small bench vice
Electric drill, drill bits
Safety goggles
Digital calipers
Assorted pliers & cutters
Parts storage boxes
Jeweler's files
Emery cloth, sandpaper, assorted wooden dowels
Assorted lubircants, solvents
LockTite, Teflon Tape
More money
Compressed air
Good work light
Lots of paper towels, rags, hand cleaner
Chrony & pellet trap
Whisky, band aids
Anything that looks like it might be good to have when I roam among the tools at the local hardware store
That special tool you will find you need but just don't have once the job starts.
Lots more money.
And just wait till you price the lathes, chucks, carbide cutting tools, drill presses, band saws, grinders, compressors and the really expensive stuff you start thinking about when youget serious!
This is going to be fun! (and did I mention expensive?) LOL
Good luck, Ronbeaux!
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Well. Where do I start.........
I hope you guys don't expect me to take a picture everytime I make a trip to the big box store. I was hoping a pair of channel locks and a hammer and I would be good to go for a while. Apparently not.
I guess a beer fridge would be included? I don't do whiskey.
I'm well on my way. I got three of the things on that list!!!! Make that four. I got plenty of goggles and stuff like that. I'm a Safety Professional by trade.
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Breaux stick with the basics for now... good lube tune and a little cross hatchin with the brake cylinder tool, [cheap],, do some de burin,, get some moly and read up ... You will have some fun playing with your toys as a lot of the guys here do... If ya like it,,, buy the next tool for the better job... My micro lathe will do just about any job that needs done , butt I just have too many hobbies to start playing inside guns... The Inside of a gun could be considered ART, just ask Gene and Bob.. Just not my kinda of art... good luck Breaux...
The guys here will help ya if ya get in a bind...
Randall
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Oh, I plan on getting into a bind or two! I looked at the pics of the shops the guys had here. The first bind I get in will be domestic related. This might be a 3 carat adventure.
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I think I found the hammer, punch and drift set at either Brownells or Midway. I would encourage you to get those, decent screw drivers and hex drivers as a minimum in basic hand tools. One thing you don't want to do is to ding up the finish on any air rifle, even a Chinese air rifle. After you finish, you don't want any screw head to be wallowed or any retaining pins to be dinged or dented. Take a glance at any air rifle that someone worked on with cheap or ill-fitting drivers, or drove the pens out with a pointed steel punch or small screw driver and it will be immediately obvious. If the workmanship on the outside looks poor, it usually follows that the workmanship inside matches.
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I concur Tommy.. Ron and I discussed the different size punch's and screwdrivers and the allens.. Don't Wanna ding it.... You guys keep an eye on him and help if ya can... Cuz I know absolutly nothing about it...
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That's a good start. Thanks! I took the stock off and see where I need to drive out the pin once I got it in the compressor. My teens have lost most of my tools so I'm on a scavenger hunt.
I'm really serious about getting going and I'm not in any hurry. Ground up. Empty nest. The Garage is ALL MINE!!!! Even drug up the old Marantz Stereo system. The ones that weighed 20lbs, for tunes.
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The only way to learn it is to do it. Not to say having a mentor and watching someone else do some air gun tunes isn't immensely helpful (thank you J Woodcock, Bob Werner, and Gene Curtis for generously sharing your trade secrets). But the only way you are ever going to become any good tuning air rifles is by tuning some air rifles. And again, I repeat what Mike Melick says: "If you want to make a small fortune tuning air rifles, start with a large fortune." Good luck Ronbeaux.
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You need a steady bench, lots of light and a decent toolbox before you get started. Or you can just lay stuff out on a computer desk?
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TCups - 1/20/2009 8:18 PM The only way to learn it is to do it. Not to say having a mentor and watching someone else do some air gun tunes isn't immensely helpful (thank you J Woodcock, Bob Werner, and Gene Curtis for generously sharing your trade secrets). But the only way you are ever going to become any good tuning air rifles is by tuning some air rifles. And again, I repeat what Mike Melick says: "If you want to make a small fortune tuning air rifles, start with a large fortune." Good luck Ronbeaux.
How Ironic we have the same Friends/Mentors Tommy!!(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif)Only thing I got to say,,,,,well,,,, read the above quote!!(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif)Tim.
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OK. Step one complete! Site acquisition and prep. Little breaux got over me heckling him and offered up a good idea for a sturdy bench. Gonna be 8x3 and the left over will make a 8x1 shelf above it.
This is a really good spot cause I can close it off and it has a window air conditioner installed in the back window. Beer fridge is not in the picture but all I got to do is turn around and grab one.
Even comes with a cool work out center I can hang stuff on!!!!!
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d153/ronbeaux/BBQ%20stuff/bbq%202/bbq%203/DSC01998.jpg)
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Breaux that looks like a good spot.. cool in the summer and fridge in the room... Nice place to play with yur toys..
I hope you turn that chinese shooter into a real winner... Its TF89 RIGHT.. what spring replacement goes in that??? Anyway a good lube and hone /debur should help her a bunch...
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It's a 97 in .22 cal
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3' is too deep to comfortably reach the back of. There is a reason countertops are 2'. If you can access both sides, then 3' is ok. Something a little taller than the regular 36" for tinkering. Some task lighting will make you happy also. Shelves are your best friend. A muffin tin makes a nice place to put small parts.
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Just started this whole airgunning thing myself. I will benefit from the lists in this post, myself. I started my tuning experiences with a B-3. You'll need to accumulate the right lubes. I ordered these:
Lube Kit from JM: http://www.airguns.citymax.com/catalog/item/251484/4169286.htm
Silicone Shock Oil: Bought this on eBay. I bought 40wt.
Neatsfoot Oil: For leather seals. Bought this at Wal-Mart.
30wt Non-Detergent Motor Oil: Again, Wal-Mart.
I used my parts washer extensively to get parts down to bare metal, especially Chinese parts: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=7340
And a deepsink to wash things with soapy water to get the cleaner off them, and an air compressor to dry them.
I had some large blocks of cedar, so I used them to build my first spring compressor. I don't recommend cedar, as I have beat it to death in very short time. I am building another out of oak that I have salvaged from pallets.
Latex or some other disposable protective gloves to keep lubes, especially moly, off your hands.
I've also found that a set of needle files that I purchased at Home Depot several years ago have come in very handy when deburring.
Lots of wet/dry sandpaper and some really good, flexible lighting.
An endless supply of notepads to keep good notes. I bought some kitty litter pans from Wal-Mart to help me keep track of parts and put the aforementioned muffin pans inside them to keep track of smaller parts (pins, screws, springs, etc.) And a digital camera to document your accomplishes and share them with the rest of us!!!
Good luck and please post your progress with the TF97. I'm sure I'll benefit from your experiences as much as I have the others!
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Thanks guys for all the great suggestions!!
Built the work bench today. It's 38.5" high and 3ft deep with a 1ft by 8ft shelf above it. I know It's sturdy cause I had to climb on it to instal the top shelf! Framed with 2x6 lumber with a 3/4" top and treated 4x4 legs in case I get water on the floor over the years.
3ft is no problem for me to reach the back wall. I also picked up some punches and some Allen wrenches today as well as some more screw drivers.
Here she is;
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d153/ronbeaux/BBQ%20stuff/bbq%202/bbq%203/DSC02002.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d153/ronbeaux/BBQ%20stuff/bbq%202/bbq%203/DSC02003.jpg)
Not ready to start just yet. I gotta get lubes and some tools for polishing and..........................................
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More update.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d153/ronbeaux/BBQ%20stuff/bbq%202/bbq%203/DSC02005.jpg)
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If you are going to use those bar clamp parts for a spring compressor make sure you make something to hold the action to the bar so it does not try to rise up out of the clamp when you compree the spring. Nice Bench. I always build my own too.
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Well I got the bar clamps and I'm still not sure they will work right. So they may take a back seat. I want to make sure I have no problems removing and replacing the spring without having to have three hands.
Any suggestions??
Send pics.
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I made a spring compressor similar to the one that is in the library from Charlie. You do have to allow for the amount of preload on the sping so you have enough travel on the clamp to completly release the spring before you run out of travel. It did take some trial and error. I did find that with a clamp holding the action steady it was easy to decompress the spring
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The refrigerator is IMPORTANT. I keep "pain reliever" in mine. You may want some band-aids and neosporin too!
Also, will that fence stop a 7.9 gr. pellet traveling at 700-1000 fps? LOL! You may find out one day!!
That work bench seems long enough to be able to shoot on. I put my rest in line with my chronograph and a cardboard box full of rags as a pellet trap (test it outside first). I am able to fire pellets well into the wee hours of the night. You need lights on the chronograph to shoot indoors.
I also used the plans that Charlie has in the library for the spring compressor. Those plans are somewhat difficult to understand when it comes to the holes and whatnot that hold the action in place. I sort of took my B3 apart and built my spring compressor all at the same time, so it would all make sense. I am building my second spring compressor several inches longer than that one and I am putting holes in the base so that I can firmly attach it to the workbench so that it doesn't bow under the pressure of the springs. Two holes in the middle, as the ends don't bow up.
Looking good so far!
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Ronbeaux:
You need to wire that work bench with at least 4 two outlet grounded 110V power outlets now, before it gets covered up. And you need to hang two bright fluorescent light fixtures overhead. But the Fridge is a good idea.
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Good call on the plugs T man! I've already tripped over cords once too many times today.
Got the vice mounted this afternoon.
I must be plum stupid when it comes to a spring compressor cause I can't get past go on building one. I guess I need to see an airgun locked down in one so I can get a better picture. I was thinking I could smash it together from the barrel to the end cap????? Trust me, the last thing I want to have happen is the spring go flying taking out things in it's path, especially ME!
Can anyone help out as to which spring from JM I can use on this? I didn't see the 97 listed.
Also can someone explain what the heck clear and black tar are for and if I might need it? I've read about it here but I think I missed where and how much you would apply.
I hope I'm not bothering you guys. Just having a mid life "I gotta try this" moment.
I'm heading back out there and crank up Bob Marley on the Bose. Plus that is where all the pain killer is.
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Clear tar looks about like vasiline petroleum jelly -- perhaps a little thicker. It is a lubricant. Heavy (black) tar indeed looks like tar - thick and sticky. It is used sparingly on the spring to reduce vibration and "twang". Moly is a metal to metal surface lubricant. It is silver-gray in color and has a bit of a gritty consistency. It works like ball bearings, though, and is used t lubricate surfaces were metal to metal friction under heavy pressure occurs. CDT has a pretty good link in the library explaining lubricants.
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Ordered the lube kit this morning. Also scrounged up some big tubs for parts washing. Also sacrificed a boiled crawfish serving tray to place all the parts in so they don't skoot away.
Thanks for the help!
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Love those mud bugs. Now get to work on that spring compressor. Mine was (is) a work in evolution. see:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=8502&posts=16&highlight=spring%20compressor&highlightmode=1#M64317
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Screwdriver set, band-aids, and a dog. Screwdrivers to start taking things apart, band-aids to patch up your leg from where the dog bit you when your screwdriver slipped and scratched the blueing:)
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Well I took the advice here when using a bar clamp for a spring compressor and added a large C clamp and some wood to hold the action in place. BRAVO! No problems getting the spring out at all.
Got all the parts cleaned up real good and finished polishing the cylinder and de-burring it. The spring guide is plastic?? The spring has a slight bow to it?? The piston seal is leather. And it sure seams like I got more parts laying out than I took apart??
I think I have done all I can do with the tools that I have now unless there are some other suggestions. I can't make a spring guide or shims/spacers yet. I read where it is advized to polish the ends of the spring so I did, but also to polish where it rests on the guide and in the piston. Can't reach where it rests in the piston????
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