GTA
PCP - HPA - C02 Gate => PCP DarkSiders Forum => : sailorgriz February 23, 2009, 01:41:26 PM
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OK, I'll admit that I'm basically lazy--and cheap. But the more I read about the AirForce Talons and Condor the more I want one! But, I'm just not into refilling the bottle. Sigh.
So, I'm thinking CO2. I can't find a thread (on the first two pages, at least) that talks much about any of these rifles on CO2. Here's what I think I've learned, but would like someone to either confirm or deny:
1. Power is greatly reduced with CO2. Question: if shooting a lighter pellet (.177 around 8 grains?) would velocity approach my CFX? (I assume 800 to 850). If so, that's plenty of power for now.
2. For a couple hundred bucks in parts I can get the HPA bottle and connect it to a SCUBA tank (already have the tank).
3. Condor has the most power on HPA, then Talon, then Talon SS. How much of a difference is there on CO2 between the guns?
4. I'm mostly interested in general plinking, shooting paper and other targets, and maybe hunting squirrels--nothing bigger'n squirrels. Will any AirForce on CO2 have the umph for squirrels? Out to about 50 yards? Assume I can place the pellet where I want it (that's a big assumption, but we have to start somewhere!)
5. Keeping the cost down is important which points me toward the Talon. I like the longer frame of the Condor. The Talon SS is the same frame as the Condor? (that's a question!)
6. I have a Leapers 4-16X50 (on the way for my CFX). Would that be acceptable on an AirForce? Would I need "high" rings to mount it?
Thanks Everyone! IF I can keep the cost down I think I can talk the Mrs. into a new rifle. If I can get just the bare rifle with CO2 and put on my Leapers scope, I should be able to do it for about $450 for either Talon, about $550 for the Condor. $450 is easier to sell, but I want the rifle I want. And, to be honest, I like the LOOKS of the Condor with the long barrel the best. :>)
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Hi Bill,,,,
I have a .22 Talon (18 inch barrel) and a .22 condor. Both of my rifles run on HPA and I've never shot them on C02 (even though I have a C02 adaptor that came free with my Condor) so I can't answer your questions concerning the CO2, but I can answer a couple of your questions.
#5) The SS and the Condor frames are longer than the Talon.
#6) I have a Leapers 4x16x50 on my Condor and it works great, I love it. As for the mounts, yes, you will need the high mounts,,, matter of fact I would suggest you go a step further and order the Air Force "Tri-rail" , install that AND still use high mounts. I have high mounts on my Talon and it works for me, but on my Condor I installed the Tri-Rail and the high mounts and it works so much better that I'm going to be ordering a Tri-Rail for my Talon and remount the scope.
Regarding hunting with C02....... like I said I've never used it on my Air Force guns,, not yet anyway, but I've read plenty of posts on the Talon Airgun Forum where guys routinely take squirrels with C02 powered Talons, SS's and Condors.
Now that I have my Condor for hunting I'm thinking of using the free C02 adaptor I got and setting my Talon up for C02 this summer and using it for my starling hunting at the duck farm I pest shoot at. I'm probably going to order a .177 18 inch barrel to use for the birds.
Well, I hope I helped you a little. I'm sure one of the other members who know the answers to the rest of your questions will chime in soon.
Jeff
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1. the max. power (in warm weather) is pretty close the the advertized numbers...is one gun where you can believe the vel. quoted in the ads.
2. IF you can generate the 3K to fill an HPA bottle, can generate the 3K needed to fill a standard PCP AirForce bottle. Could dial down the PCP version to near the speeds you want. If you want to go HPA, then how fast the gun runs is dependent on the pressure out put of the regulator...850PSi output will be slightly faster than warm-day co2.
3. Again...the advertized vel. is pretty close. ALl of them run on the same co2 adaptor...which means they all run on the same valve....but the Condor has both a longer barrel and a heavier hammer.
4. I've not noticed a difference in accuracy at short ranges (40 yards or under) with co2. Do have to pace your shots so that the gun doesn't cool down and drop vel. (and the talon SS is the fastest to cool off...the exiting co2 gas is trapped inside the frame, which lets it cool things off much faster).
5. Are some difference sin the "handle" (scope mount rail) but basically the Condor has the same length frame as the Talon SS.
6. Becasue of the dead straight stocking and the diameter of the co2 tank, will need high rings. Recoil isn't an issue. I tend to use medium rings and a smaller diameter (9oz.) co2 tank.
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I have a .22 Talon SS and have shot it on both HPA and CO2. Indoor velocities using CO2 were around 550 fps, temperature was less than 70 degrees in the basement at the time.
Definitely need high mounts. I'm also considering adding the tri-rail to the high mounts I already use.
Mounting comments above relate only to standard AF tank. CO2 bottles are not the same size as the AF tank, and your cheek weld will be different with them, depending on what size CO2 bottle you use. I use the 12 oz bottle.
Eric
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Gentlemen, thank you for the prompt resonses! I'm leaning toward the Condor because I like the looks with the long barrel and, if I ever want to power it up, It powers up the most. We'll see how the budget goes next month. :>)
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The condor barrel will get you closer to the velocity you want. Also I'm told the Co2 is very temp. sensitive, which could be a good thing if it gets HOT where you are, you could get the velocity your looking for out of the 24'' barrel. The shot count is what most guys rave about.
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Thanks Savage. It's not hot where I am now. In fact, the temp was -12 this morning. Brrrrrr. Condor's on it's way (.177, CO2). I'm working up a tank heater from hand warmer packs and a hand warmer muffler to keep the tank up to temp for target shooting. Maybe wrap the muffler in a nylon stocking to keep the bulk down Besides, who wouldn't like the feel of a nylon stocking carressing their cheek? ;>) Figure I should be able to come up with something that'll make it pretty temp stable down into the 30's, maybe 20's. Might even work for hunting next fall--at least, I hope so!
And, yes, the shot count is the primary reason I went CO2.
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This is what I got out of mine with the striker weight removed . Let me know how you do .Marvin
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=13228&posts=6#M117255
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I'm new at this. What's the "striker weight?"
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it's the hammer! http://www.talontunes.com/id5.html
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Gary those pictures are of the striker or hammer but a stock condor has a striker weight between the striker and the spring . The condor and talon both have the same striker so A.F. just added a weight that looks like a bushing between the spring and striker . Marvin