GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => The Shop => : bodiej February 26, 2009, 08:28:12 AM
-
After gathering info from some helpful folks here, I've determined that what I need to do is a lube tune and debur with a trigger polish. I found the diagram of the trigger and that looks straight forward. WHat are the best methods of polishing? Also, what / where to debur and what / where to lube? I don't have alot of time online (mostly at work), and I have spent much of it researching through past posts. More or less needing a step by step guide if anyone has it or the time. Thanks!
-
Of course as soon as I wrote that I found these...
http://www.kermitairgunclub.com/projects/ss1000.pdf
http://webpages.charter.net/guru1/documents/RSE%20Airguns%20-%20Beeman%20RS2%20trigger%20guide.pdf
So any insider tips on polishing / deburring and where else?
-
If you go to the tool bar near the top of the page you will find a tab labeled library. Click on it and scroll thru till you find the tutorial on tuning the B-19 by Charlie da Tuna. The tear down will be different but the honing polishing and lube placement are all the same no matter the gun. I printed it out and followed it step by step and it made a world of difference in my gun. If I was at home I'd cut and paste it here but it takes to long on the blackberry to do it. If you need help finding it shoot me an email or pm. If you email me I'll send it to you via pdf.
-
sweet! thanks :)
-
I put my own spin on the spring refinement in those posts. I not only polish the ends down, I give them a round cross section again (you will see what I mean when you take it apart) as the whole idea is to reduce friction. By rounding the ends it puts the smallest spring area possible against the the guide surfaces, allowing for a smoother action then if it was left flat. Do not make a knife edge, just round it down again.
-
I see Tuning the B-4-2, not the b-19
-
70GTvert - 2/27/2009 12:27 PM
I put my own spin on the spring refinement in those posts. I not only polish the ends down, I give them a round cross section again (you will see what I mean when you take it apart) as the whole idea is to reduce friction. By rounding the ends it puts the smallest spring area possible against the the guide surfaces, allowing for a smoother action then if it was left flat. Do not make a knife edge, just round it down again.
You will probably be able to get away with just rounding the cut off end of the spring and maybe the corners on the bottom. Rounding the bottom won't change the friction and will take a lot of work. The contact area will be smaller but that just means the pressure will be greater on those areas.
-
bodiej - 2/26/2009 1:44 PM
Of course as soon as I wrote that I found these...
http://www.kermitairgunclub.com/projects/ss1000.pdf
http://webpages.charter.net/guru1/documents/RSE%20Airguns%20-%20Beeman%20RS2%20trigger%20guide.pdf
So any insider tips on polishing / deburring and where else?
When I debured/polshed my B19 receiver, I got a real small grinding wheel (1/8") for my dremel and used that. Actually the gun had NO burrs, so the only thing to do was to round the edges of the stamped out areas, so they don't cut the seal when putting it back in. You do it all over the place but especially on the front/back of those cuts in the bottom of the receiver. The grinding wheel was 220 grit I believe and thats good enough for those parts. I don't know about other people, but I sanded the inside of the spring chamber with 220/400 using a dowel (well drum stick in my case.) Just lightly to smooth it out. I didn't hone the comp chamber, but the pro's do. I did a lot of work on the trigger assy, smoothing out the contact surfaces with a sand paper wheel on the dremel. I also used the grinding wheel on the inside of the trigger housing, especially on the inside of the slot. Usually your trigger ends up rubbing up against that side if you're RH. I also polished all the pins by hand and cleaned out the pin holes on the link/sear with the grinding wheel. I lubed the trigger parts with Mystery Oil (non-detergent motor oil+moly.) I lubed the piston with moly.
Don't be an idiot like me and lube the compression chamber with lithium grease. I was lazy and didn't want to get dielectric grease. I figured nothing can be worse than the china mystery oil. Wrong. Some people say the compression chamber doesn't need lube, you just need to lube the seal so it goes in. Other say to coat the compression chamber with a film of dielectric grease. To the pros out there, which on is it? It seems there should be SOME lube in there for smoother operation.
Other than that, round off the ends of the spring, polish all the contacts areas of the power source. Use only 220 on the outside of the piston, don't mirror the whole thing. Put tar on the spring. Thats about it. I followed CDT's B19 super tune guide to do my tune.
-
Thanks ALOT!
-
bodiej - 3/5/2009 11:44 AM
Thanks ALOT!
No prob, if you follow CDT's B19 guide you should be fine.
http://www.charliedatuna.com/airgun_docs/B19%20Super%20Tune.doc
-
I've been looking for that! :)
-
bodiej - 3/5/2009 12:03 PM
I've been looking for that! :)
Yeah, I was having trouble finding that as well. Mr.Tuna links to it on his website under tune info BUT you have to scroll down a bit.
-
The tune guide is on my website. Follow this link.
http://www.charliedatuna.com/airgun_docs/B19%20Super%20Tune.doc
-
gosciu555 beat you to it, but thanks charlie :)
-
gosciu555 - 3/5/2009 12:10 PM
70GTvert - 2/27/2009 12:27 PM
I put my own spin on the spring refinement in those posts. I not only polish the ends down, I give them a round cross section again (you will see what I mean when you take it apart) as the whole idea is to reduce friction. By rounding the ends it puts the smallest spring area possible against the the guide surfaces, allowing for a smoother action then if it was left flat. Do not make a knife edge, just round it down again.
You will probably be able to get away with just rounding the cut off end of the spring and maybe the corners on the bottom. Rounding the bottom won't change the friction and will take a lot of work. The contact area will be smaller but that just means the pressure will be greater on those areas.
First, with a Dremel, it takes about 5 minutes per end. I guess if your using sandpaper, it wouldn't be worth your time, but I am not sure what you may or may not be using to do this.
Now, a simple thought experiment if you will. Put a large heavy overweight jellybean of a person on a sheet of ice wearing nice flat bottomed treaded shoes. He can be moved, but it will take a certain amount of force to do so. Smooth out that tread, and he may move a little bit easier when you push. Now, we take this same Jabba the Hut and put him on a nice set of Ice skates. Yup, sure 'nuff is a smaller contact area with more pressure on those little blades, but guess what, it takes much less effort to get me, er, that lard-o moving than when I, er, he was just on rubber soles. No, it will make a difference. Just make sure the ends are up against a hard surface.
And yes, there are very nice and informative instructions to help guide you with a tune posted out there. But as in all guides, nothing is firmly set in stone, it is a guide. Even Charlie recently got involved with a thread of what grit sandpaper to use in honing the tube, and noted in that discussion that he would use a finer grit than is noted in those instructions initially written by him.
-
70GTvert - 3/6/2009 6:45 AM
gosciu555 - 3/5/2009 12:10 PM
70GTvert - 2/27/2009 12:27 PM
I put my own spin on the spring refinement in those posts. I not only polish the ends down, I give them a round cross section again (you will see what I mean when you take it apart) as the whole idea is to reduce friction. By rounding the ends it puts the smallest spring area possible against the the guide surfaces, allowing for a smoother action then if it was left flat. Do not make a knife edge, just round it down again.
You will probably be able to get away with just rounding the cut off end of the spring and maybe the corners on the bottom. Rounding the bottom won't change the friction and will take a lot of work. The contact area will be smaller but that just means the pressure will be greater on those areas.
First, with a Dremel, it takes about 5 minutes per end. I guess if your using sandpaper, it wouldn't be worth your time, but I am not sure what you may or may not be using to do this.
Now, a simple thought experiment if you will. Put a large heavy overweight jellybean of a person on a sheet of ice wearing nice flat bottomed treaded shoes. He can be moved, but it will take a certain amount of force to do so. Smooth out that tread, and he may move a little bit easier when you push. Now, we take this same Jabba the Hut and put him on a nice set of Ice skates. Yup, sure 'nuff is a smaller contact area with more pressure on those little blades, but guess what, it takes much less effort to get me, er, that lard-o moving than when I, er, he was just on rubber soles. No, it will make a difference. Just make sure the ends are up against a hard surface.
And yes, there are very nice and informative instructions to help guide you with a tune posted out there. But as in all guides, nothing is firmly set in stone, it is a guide. Even Charlie recently got involved with a thread of what grit sandpaper to use in honing the tube, and noted in that discussion that he would use a finer grit than is noted in those instructions initially written by him.
Not quite. Ice skates work because they melt the ice where you stand on them. A better experiment would be to try to push that fat person when he's standing on both skates vs when he's only standing on one. One has twice the area of the other. I think they would be close. An even better experiment would be to take a nice and smooth metal plate and try to slide a block over it. Get two block of the same weight but different contact areas. The friction force shouldn't change.
Yeah I was a geek in HS ;) jk
Here is a wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction
Also, in this spring there might some things going on like the spring sides catching on something or something to this effect. Anyhow this discussion is getting a bit too academic for an airgun forum ;) Can you say from experience this has reduced the torque?