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Politics and Religion => Politics And Religion Discussion => : Gene_SC March 06, 2009, 10:21:45 AM

: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Gene_SC March 06, 2009, 10:21:45 AM

1. Ban use of firearms for home self-defense.
2. Pass federal laws eliminating your right-to-carry.
3. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.
4. Close down 90 percent of the gun shops in America.
5. Ban rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.
6. Increase federal taxes on guns and ammunition by 500 percent.
7. Restore voting rights for five million criminals including those who have been convicted of using a gun to commit a violent crime.
8. Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban to include millions more firearms.
9. Mandate a government-issued license to purchase a firearm.
10. Appoint judges to the U.S. Supreme Court and federal judiciary who share his views on the second amendment.

He has begin to set this in motion with his selection of amnesty and drivers licenses for illegal’s, abortion loving, gun-banning, uber-liberal, ultra-left-wing nut job Senator Joe Biden.

: RE: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: moe1942 March 08, 2009, 10:56:25 PM

I couldn't agree more. I would add more but I think you pretty well covered things.

: RE: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: moe1942 March 10, 2009, 12:16:00 AM

The modern equivalent would be the guard before we started using them like active duty. The militia was unorganized and didn't do regular drill.. Anyone between 18 and I believe 60 was in the militia.

Right after your quote the 2nd amendment states  "the right of the people" so that means everyone is/was given the God given right to keep and bear arms. In current times the constitution has been dismantled and the will of the people has been diluted and broken. All by design. For those who choose to remain free and unchained the tree of liberty may have to be watered again.

The majority of the people in this country don't know that the bill of rights outlined God given unalienable rights. Rights bestowed by government can be taken, God given rights can't. Not without force.

: RE: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: snatch March 10, 2009, 03:53:12 AM

Gene, I believe that this is his agenda. I've heard all of these points before. How did you compile this list? Was this published somewhere or did you put this together from recent quotes and actions?

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: TCups March 10, 2009, 04:27:40 AM

Yes, some joined the National Guard, if they could.  It was, after all, a perfectly legal and honorable way to serve one's country and avoid being drafted and sent to serve in active combat.  Unlike, for example, burning a draft card and fleeing to Canada, or filing a change of address ever time you were sent a draft notice and refusing to report for induction, or filed as conscientious objectors or got a doctor to falsify some medical record and make you 4-F, or bombing the Pentagon.  And, yes, during the most active parts of the Vietnam War and the "draft", it took some pull to get an appointment to the National Guard, usually at the state level as I recall. It got so bad that eventually all deferments were cancelled, there was no National Guard option and a draft lottery was begun in 1970, and 1971 (the year of my lotto).  

I believe I get your "dig" at George W. Bush.  But let's not go there.  Instead, why not just say "Thank you" to Richard Nixon for ending the military draft and eventually ending the war that Eisenhower, Kennedy, and especially Lyndon B. Johnson gave us?  And also why not give a heart felt "Thank you!" to all who served in every branch of the military to defend our freedoms.  Thank You!!!

PS:  What does "Congress shall make no law" mean?  At the time the 2nd Amendment was written, there was no distinction between the public's "arms" and the military's "arms".  The law was written to protect citizens from the government.  Too bad that playing field hasn't been kept level.  Guess Prohibition and gangsters with automatic weapons sealed that door some years back.  And in any case, who would now be safe from a strong armed and willing government, no matter how well-armed we might be?  Not at Ruby Ridge.  Not at Waco.  Not anywhere.

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: TCups March 10, 2009, 04:52:27 AM

I will research this more and give you a more complete answer later, if you wish, but as I understand it, the "Rights" delegated to the states and their militias were quite different in those days before the "Federal Government" usurped nearly unlimited powers, under the guise of regulation of interstate commerce as I recall.  

The general intent of the well regulated state militias, I believe, was to allow, no, to guarantee that individual citizens of any state had the ability to organize and defend themselves, their own weapons in hand, from all threats, foreign and domestic, including their own federal government.  The fear was that otherwise we would be vulnerable to a totalitarian government intent to usurp it's citizens freedoms and constitutional rights by force.

And what you you opine?  That only the government should have that right of collective protection under the "well-regulated militia" penumbra?  If so, then at least for now, you side with the minority opinion of the Supreme Court.  Obama can't push that agenda until he appoints another couple of liberal Supreme Court Justices willing to "kill" our 2nd Amendment rights in the name of a "living" constitution.


Or was it just a rhetorical question, trolling to see what law-abiding citizens who support the 2nd Amendment would say, because you really don't give a damn and just want to tweak the conservatives?

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: TCups March 10, 2009, 04:57:49 AM

Ad hominem attack.
Thank who ever your heart and mind tells you is acting to defend your rights and freedoms, many with their lives.  And may God forbid that you should ever have to live in a country where freedom is lost.  I know in my heart who speaks for constitutional rights and freedoms, and who and defends mine.  Thank you again, all who serve and protect our country.  May God bless you and keep you safe.

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: TCups March 10, 2009, 05:06:02 AM

PS: Gary, the diversity of your thought comes through quite clearly.  No real need to point it out us, but thanks.

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: TCups March 10, 2009, 05:09:11 AM

I suspect that in your case, "well regulated" may imply the need for a laxative and stool softener.  But since you are a diverse thinker and keep asking the probing, rhetorical questions, why not take the lead, Gary, and just go ahead and tell us what "well-regulated" really means and who you feel, according to your research and extensive readings should indeed have the right to bear arms?

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: TCups March 10, 2009, 05:21:43 AM

Then, Gerry(excuse the lapse), perhaps you need to concentrate not only on diversity, but also more carefully on content when you read.

TaTa, Sir.  Being a money-grubbing capitalist, I must be away and back to work, cheating the poor and sucking the last few health care dollars out of the system before there are none left. But perhaps we will "chat" later.

Have a nice day.

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Hermie March 10, 2009, 02:31:29 PM

.........


This is what annoys me the most about this place. THE PARANOIA.


EFFING RELAX. OBAMA ISN"T GOING TO TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY. IF HE EVEN TRIED, THERE WOULD BE A REVOLUTION.


Now I'm second-guessing sending my Big Cat in for a Turbo Tune...

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: TCups March 10, 2009, 02:47:10 PM

Good thinking Hermie! Excellent advice!  Relax, sit back and enjoy the show.  Nothing to fear but fear itself!
Happy days are here again, they skies are turning clear again, so lets have another cup of coffee, let's have another piece of pie!
We are blessed to have such level-headed thinkers among us.  Have a nice evening.

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Gene_SC March 10, 2009, 05:05:57 PM

Well you know what they say Hermie? If it gets to hot fer ya in the kitchen then get out..:)

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Hermie March 11, 2009, 12:23:52 PM

What keeps me here is it is an excellent resource for airgun information. That outweighs the annoyances. Besides, I make it a point to help people become more open-minded and see things from all angles. I have seen the right-wing's viewpoint, and can't understand why they're so paranoid.

But seriously, I have a question. Why are you all so paranoid about the governent taking away the 2nd Amendment? What is your reason for this extremism? If you could explain this I would greatly appreciate it.

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: spanky March 11, 2009, 01:10:18 PM

Because with out the second amendment we are nothing but future slaves at the hands of our government. Remember they are claming to protect us .The right to bare arms is to protect us from our government .No disrespect to you hermie. but with out the peoples rights given buy the constitution. we are nothing more then slave workers to our government.Can you spell TAXES I bet your grand kids can .And there children as well. not trying to Chang your mind about this decision.I hope you are the first one in line to hand your guns over. The future of the UNITED STATES lies in our hands not the governments hand, they work for us. We sign there pay check. How much are you willing to give too them .Because they will take it all if we let them. Its as simple as that .Remember the strong always take from the weak to remain strong.Thats the nature of the beast.

: Who determines 'your' version of extremism?
: 3n00n March 11, 2009, 01:15:42 PM

The 2nd amendment has already been 'infringed', and so has the Constitution been subverted to 'profit' the controllers elite!

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http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm (http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm)

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http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm (http://"http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm)

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http://www.class3weapons.com/class_3_faq_class_3_weapons.html (http://"http://www.class3weapons.com/class_3_faq_class_3_weapons.html)

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http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Zimring68.htm (http://"http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Zimring68.htm)

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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&hl=en (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&hl=en)

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http://www.apfn.org/apfn/okc_coverup.htm (http://"http://www.apfn.org/apfn/okc_coverup.htm)

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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3898216904060714451 (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3898216904060714451)

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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&ei=kRCuSNXvAoyqiwLzk_W4BA&q=freedom+to+fascism&hl=en (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&ei=kRCuSNXvAoyqiwLzk_W4BA&q=freedom+to+fascism&hl=en)

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Obviously, you seem to think the executions on Ruby Ridge (http://"http://www.stormfront.org/ruby.htm) and the mass executions in Waco, Texas (http://www.serendipity.li/waco.html){21 children age 15 & younger} can't happen anywhere else.

I {we}happen to think the founding fathers already foresaw this eventuality.

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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675&p (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675&p)

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http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/federalist/ (http://"http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/federalist/)

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Hermie March 11, 2009, 01:19:50 PM

Just to make things clear, I'd be a part of the revolution if the 2nd Amendment was removed. I'm just not an extremist about it.

: How many children SHOULD be 'executed' then?
: 3n00n March 11, 2009, 01:25:47 PM

Nothing extreme about that, huh? (http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif)

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: spanky March 11, 2009, 02:05:13 PM

So your giving up before it even starts?and it started years ago. I take it you have no children's futures at stake then .We have way too many gun laws now ,and they do nothing..... ask the 10 in Alabama the 15 in Germany or the millions killed at the hands of lawless who don't give a rats rear end about the law .So more laws are not the answer gun control is not the answer. Arm the law abiding citizen and nature will take care of its self .If only one person at ether of throes crime scene had a gun the death toll would be much less. All the gun law on the planet could have stopped any of thies deaths .Only an other person with a gun could

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: spanky March 11, 2009, 02:35:06 PM

This is how that keep chiseling away at our rights. If they cant take our guns out the front door they will try the back door. yep we  are just an another inch closer from loosing our guns                                                                                                        http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=15389&mid=124776#M124776

: RE: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: shearload March 11, 2009, 03:45:23 PM

Let me throw another log on this fire.  This story didn't make news outside our small state, what with the other shootings today.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ibs8q-unzJ9zEcDamcV89It4b1mAD96RDP902

Just one added detail that isn't mentioned in the story; the grenades were buried about half a mile from the only nuclear power plant in our state.

So are the laws they're using to hold this guy on an infringement of his 2nd Amendment rights or not?  What are "arms" exactly?  Is some infringement OK, if the arms involved are more militarily useful than, say, a typical sidearm or hunting rifle?

If I needed to overthrow a tyrant, I'd be looking for some A10 Warthogs, and maybe some mobile rocket launchers.  Kinda like the stuff our National Guard has.  I doubt a tyrant would be worried by a bunch of revolutionaries with small arms only; a couple of helicopter gunships could put down the rebellion in short order.  

We have better tools for preventing tyranny, and had best keep those tools sharp and ready.

Best regards,

Shearload

: Can you fund an A-10?
: 3n00n March 11, 2009, 04:05:15 PM

Most of us couldn't, butis anA-10 even viable?

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We the sheeple stillfund those F-15s and Apaches that will be used against all of the militant 'terrorist' bbgun shooters . . .

: RE: Can you fund an A-10?
: shearload March 11, 2009, 05:11:42 PM

Apparently, well-regulated militias can.  As far as I know, all A10s in service now are operated by ANG units.

I can't imagine a revolt in the US that would require military intervention.  The small arms that we raise so much fuss about owning wouldn't be much of a match for anything other than a small-town police force.  Either we gave up the individual right to own serious weapons so many years ago that no one remembers, or we never claimed the right.

Best regards,

Shearload

: That was the point of these links . . .
: 3n00n March 11, 2009, 05:39:23 PM

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=15223&mid=124822#M124822 (http://thread-view.asp?tid=15223&mid=124822#M124822)

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The 1913 Federal Reserve Act was the 'turning point' from which all sheeple control originates. The 1934 NFA, 1938 FFA, 1968, 1986, etc~GCA, are all I.R.S. agency controlled laws, with the B.A.T.F. being the Draconian storm troopers enforcing these infringments!

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From:

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http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Zimring68.htm (http://"http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Zimring68.htm)

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In 1967 the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms division of the Internal Revenue Service reported an investment of 35 man-years in enforcing both the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Federal Firearms Act of 1938. During the period 1966-1968, a total of 275 arrests were reported under the Federal Firearms Act, and it has been asserted that no dealers were charged with violating the Act until 1968.

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All this tells me, is that the IRS and Federal Reserve gotta go!

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Hermie March 12, 2009, 10:01:12 AM

Back then the 2nd Amendment was drafted, the guns of the day were muzzle-loading muskets. I wonder what the forefathers would say about today's tech.

: The fore fathers would think:
: 3n00n March 12, 2009, 01:14:19 PM

. . . now the tyrant government may execute more children faster with better weaponry, while the impotent civilian populace cowers before the almighty Obamanation!

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Big_Bill March 12, 2009, 04:02:42 PM

Michael,

You have no interest in what our Fore Fathers would have to say ! You just enjoy distorting history, and injecting your humor into every situation that you can.

When the British were coming for the arms, they were coming for the cannons, not the rifles ! They Feared the Cannons !

And when the Fore Fathers wanted the People to be able to reclaim the country from Domestic or ForeignEnemies, they wanted the People to have everything that the Domestic or ForeignEnemy had in their arsenal and better, totake back our country,The United States of America.

Now, What do you believe our Fore Fathers would want us to have, in relationship to the Second Amendment and the Constitution or the United States of America ??

Bill

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Hermie March 14, 2009, 05:13:16 PM

I have no idea what the forefathers would say about today. This is an entirely different culture we live in.

I support the right to bear arms, but I believe that they need to be controlled, as they are dangerous and get into the wrong hands, eg. criminals. Keep guns in honest hands, I say, but do we really need supermachine guns or RPGs in our homes? Even though they would be fun as hell..

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Gene_SC March 15, 2009, 02:39:13 AM

What about collectors Hermie. Should the right to collect submachine guns and other weapons be taken away from them?

http://www.thisisjustcool.com/cool-pictures/charleton-hestons-basement-gun-room/

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Hermie March 15, 2009, 05:26:44 PM

Licensed collectors should be allowed to have them, as long as they're licensed and know what they're doing. Having something like that in the hands of someone who doens't know jack would REALLY be dangerous. They aren't toys, and some people don't realize that.

Also, there could never be a law to "take away guns." That would be an ex post facto law, banned by the Constitution. Laws would only cover sales AFTER the law is put into effect.

: Cars are ALOT more deadly dangerous!
: 3n00n March 16, 2009, 09:06:33 AM

The difference is one could feasiblyprotect against tyrant governments, while the other is known to bea time saving death trap . . . just a matter of perspective!

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Of course theliberal socialists view would be to worship the almighty Obamanation by turning in all self protection so that the fascistoligarchymay totallyreplacethe previous AmericanConstitutional Republic!

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http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment (http://"http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment)

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Hermie March 16, 2009, 09:48:15 AM

And the paranoid conservatives will be sitting in their homes with a rifle out their window shooting at everything that moves, thinking that even the mailman is out to get them.



Are there ANY moderates here, or is everyone a paranoid extremist balancing on the tip of the right wing?

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Gene_SC March 16, 2009, 10:14:30 AM

Come on Hermie, Drive by my place... hehe

: RE: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: CharlieDaTuna March 16, 2009, 11:26:40 AM

It looks like Obama signed a directive today that many calibers of brass must be crushed to a point of not being reusable for reloading. Coming in the back door it looks like. If you can't buy ammo they don't need to take away our ownership cuz ya can't use them anyhow. And the end of the second amendment seems to be coming closer.

: Re: Barack Obama's 10 Point Plan To "CHANGE" The Second Amendment
: Gene_SC March 16, 2009, 11:36:33 AM

Well Bob I hate to say it but I did say it last summer when I decided after 40 years without touching or owning a fire arm that what I saw in our future was not good. So went out and bought myself two weapons of choice with plenty of ammo to last me a long time. I warned everyone about this but I know some laughed and did not give it a second thought but you are right. This is only the beginning of us losing our second amendment rights.