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Politics and Religion => Politics And Religion Discussion => : Gene_SC March 06, 2009, 10:41:00 AM
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President Obama is planning to sign an executive order Monday to overturn Bush-era policy that limited federal tax dollars for embryonic stem cell research, according to administration officials familiar with the deliberations
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Good, maybe we can actually get a cure for Parkinson's and countless other diseases going.
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Perhaps, but I doubt there will ever be a cure for ignorance.
See: http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed052705d.cfm
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Usually, but I try to restrict it to the religion and politics forum and strive to include some basis for my opinion. Do you not realize that it is insulting to me for you to infer that a previous ban on government-funded embryonic stem cell research is a mean-spirited, conservative agenda to deny people who desperately need medical help? You didn't say that explicitly, of course, but I suspect that is your opinion. I disagree, of course.
Great strives have been made in stem cell research. Most reputable medical researchers (and the private funds, which could as easily be spent on embryonic stem cell research) are now centered on three areas: fetal cord blood, adult bone marrow stem cells, and more recently, adult peripheral blood circulating stem cells. It turns out that viable stem cells can be obtained from peripheral blood and re-injected in the donors. This doesn't risk the horrible complications of teratogenic cancers associated with fetal stem cell therapy, and doesn't, de-facto, imply another useful function for aborted fetuses (or donation of live and viable human eggs for cloning).
There are current clinical trials and applications for this, I believe. But embryonic stem cell research, aside from requiring government funding, has a political agenda. I am curious -- are you a medical professional? Do you work in biotechnology? Or perhaps a university professor looking for government funding for important research? Government-funded research usually serves a political agenda and frequently subverts good science in doing so, in my opinion.
I am tired as Hell of being insulted by Liberalism and its political agendas and I am not going to take it any more. I suspect there will be many more outspoken Conservatives forwarding their opinions in the next few years. Here's my opinion: It is not the government's place or purpose to decree that my tax dollars be spent on embryonic (fetal) stem cell research.
Have a nice day.
PS: did you bother to read the referenced commentary, or were you too busy being offended to consider it?
See also:
http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics3.asp
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=5420
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I hate to say this, but in my opinion, Would you give up a very high paying job by finishing you job ? Or would you drag it out, and keep this job for as long as they will put up with your excuses for not being finished ?
As for the Pharmaceutical Companies, if they find a "NATURAL" cure to anything, they must find away to make it artificially, or synthetically, or they can not get it patented. And if they put it out without a patient, anyone can produce it and they will not make the money they want and in some cases need to recover the costs of research. Besides there is no money in finding a cure, it is better to find a drug that will keep it in check, that the patient will need to take for the rest of their natural life. Did anyone say CA-CHING $$$$$
Now look at this situation from a logical point of view,,,,The word is over populated, and we can not feed everyone now, not even everyone in the good old U.S.of A. We could, if they wanted to, feed all Americans, but the are simple people, and are easily replaced. Beside, we can sell that grain and meat to Europe for a good profit ! So the heck with the poor and uneducated here.
So do you think that we are going to find a "cure" for all the ills in the world, that now partially control the world population ? I think not ! Not as long as the population keeps expanding beyond our ability or desire to feed those that are already with us.
Now I'm not saying that cures are not already available for may diseases that we are not informed of. I have seen climes for several natural cures for diseases that the Pharmaceutical Companies have discovered, but have not been able to synthesize artificially, so no patientprotectionand no money, and no cure !
These natural cures are not mentioned, except in closed reports, as research and development labs try to sympathetically reproduce them.
So getting to thebottom of the problem, only the very rich and powerful will ever benefit from cures, and the ones that can afford the treatments to control the desires, will receive them !
Now that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it !
Bill
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Bill:
Your opinion is that primarily the rich benefit from pharmaceutical research and the "wonder drugs" that have come from free private enterprise?!! Or that it is wrong to want to profit from pharmaceutical R&D?!!
Antibiotics, antihistamines, human insulin, cancer chemotherapy, anti-rejection drugs that make transplants possible, pain relievers, blood pressure medications, flu vaccines, cancer vaccines . . . the list is endless. Some of the most important "inventions" of all time are pharmaceuticals.
I hope those who discover them get at least as rich as, say, most politicians and corporate CEO's. Financial free markets and the potential for the generation of wealth have saved literally millions of lives, and improved the quality of life for countless more.
In the last few years, what wonderful new drugs have come out of Sweeden? Canada? Mexico? (well OK, Mexico may have us beat on drugs) France? Cuba? Yes, and to which country do the wealthiest people from all over the globe hop in their private jets to fly off to and be treated in? The USA. There is a good reason for this. God bless Capitalism.
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Well Tom,
I think you missed my meaning, so I'll try to say it simply: The rich will receive the cures, and pay dearly for them. The POOR will benefit by medications that will abate the symptoms of the diseases. And they will be on them for the rest of theirlife, and pay monthly for this treatment. The installment plan.
And I'm sure you know, Everything these Doctors and Scientists discover will go to the Pharmaceutical Company that sponsors them, they will receive their paycheck and honorable mention as an XYZ employee. Almost every employee today signs an agreement that anything discovered or invented, belongs to the company !
As for natural cures, the Pharmaceutical companies does its best to put them down, even though they have better success with fewer contraindications, or side effects. And we both know, that nothing works on 100% of the time on any group.
Today, almost everything out there, that treats a condition, is synthetic, a copy of a natural substance, even many vitamins that we are taking.
I hope this helps,
Bill
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Do you mean the Nazis, the one billionaire George Suros collaborated with in WWII? So open minded and free thinking of you, also, to instantly equate me or my opinions with Rush Limbaugh and Nazis in the same breath. My opinions are my own, thank you. I think freely, read what I want, listen to talk radio, watch FOX news, and God willing, will continue to be able to think freely and clearly, and speak my opinion.
Here is my opinion, again: Obama is wrong to "reverse the embryonic stem cell ban". As I understand it, it is the government funding of this research that had been previously banned. It did not apply to existing embryonic stem cell lines. The original poster (sorry, not you) opined that lifting the ban is good and that it may cure Parkinson's disease. But I think it is bad. Here is why: It requires cloning human embryo cell lines, it has not proven as effective as other less controversial stem cell research, and it causes a very high rate of cancer in laboratory animals (and a few humans on which it was tried in Korea). Teratomas and germ cell tumors are very common. Sure more research is needed. But one bit of research success that would be needed in advance to make pleuri-potential embryonic stem cells a reasonable approach will be a cure for cancer.
And was it your opinion that you would prefer the Heritage Foundation and other conservative think tank organizations be censored, or just marginalized because of those who contribute large amounts of capital to make them possible? Is it OK, on the other hand, for George Suros to contribute massive amounts of money to liberals and their web sites, or is putting money behind opinions and political agendas only OK for liberals and socialists?
No, I am an unabashed Conservative Christian. I think Rush Limbaugh is correct in his political opinions. I think President Obama is a wrong in his opinions policies. I will vociferously oppose those agendas and policies that are, in my opinion, ruining this great nation, chief among them, Socialism, excessive taxation, and redistribution of America's wealth by its ever-expanding, intrusive government. The 1st Amendment gives me that right, by the way, and my doing so hardly disqualifies me as a "moderator", unless you want those sorts of opinions to be actively censored on this politics and religion forums. Is that what you suggest? I hope other Conservatives will also become more vocal in their opinions and start opposing what I consider the ruinous course on which modern liberalism is hell-bent on steering for this God-fearing nation.
Also, to Rush Limbaugh and the Heritage Foundation, you may add add Friedrich Hayek, Thomas Sowell, Ron Paul, Alan Keyes, Ann Coulter, Charles Krauthammer, Bill O'Riley, Cal Thomas, Clarence Thomas, Robert Bork, Whitaker Chambers, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Ronald Regan, and perhaps most of all, Jesus Christ as those who have been influential in my readings and the formation of my Conservative Christian principles and beliefs. Bash away, if you wish. But if anything, the last few months have convinced me that I will never again remain silent, never again fail to rise in opposition to pernicious liberalism and socialism at ever opportunity I am presented. I contribute financially to the Heritage Foundation and to the NRA and I am proud to do so. I intend to now be just as "in your face" and vocal as any liberal out there making my opinions known, and it it offends them, I care not. So help me God. Amen
As a matter of fact, I shall contact Gene and ask that he remove me as a moderator from this forum it that bothers you. Have a nice day.
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Dam Tommy!!! You are a very well educated man... I AM A DITTO HEAD... I believe in what the founding fathers did.. LEAVE ME ALONE... Let me live my life any way which I choose.. I don't need a government that stands in the way of anyone becomming whatever they want.. I don't need a government tellin me I have to
1. wear a seat belt
2 smoke in designated area's only
3. give 1/2 my dead moms money to them, just becuz
4. Pay taxes on my earnings so they can expand government to help pay the lazy poor folks to sit at home....
5. I aint all into the thought that my taxes are about to be raised to pay for this rediculous porkulous bill that does nothing for the job market..
6. I'm really not too happy that the US. has the highest coorporate taxes in the world and companies are moveing out to other countries to make a proffit..
I could go on and on and on and on about what demacratic policies will do to this great nation.. but its pointless now ... The Idiots have elected a socialist for thier leader...
I think shadowshot has the correct solution for the problem...
here ya go..
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=15206&posts=4&start=1 (http://thread-view.asp?tid=15206&posts=4&start=1)
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Draw you own conclusions.
http://conservativeculture.com/2006/10/1131/
I repeat: Cloning human embryos is WRONG. It is AMORAL. It is medically UNNECESSARY.
I oppose government funding of this atrocity. I do not apologize for it.
I am not here to debate George Soros, great American that he undoubtedly is.
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Seeing as America is one of the last countries that doesn't offer a decent state-sponsored health care system, I say it's time we take their examples. This system sucks, and it all started with Nixon.
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Wrong on both counts, but spoken like a true liberal. Want references?
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Which countries have the decent state-sponsored health care systems?
The ones that deny care to the elderly because they become a drain on the system?
Or the ones that ration care so it takes 6 months to see a doctor?
And as to the original topic, if you look into it remarkable promise has been found in ADULT stem cell research, but so far stem cells from dead babies have not shown any kind of good use. Bush's ban was only on embryonic stem cells, not adult.
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Believe me on this. National public medical care, socialized medicine, will be like public education and public housing -- it will be mismanaged, it will give politicians the power to make not only financial decisions, but also life and death health care decisions for you and your loved ones. And it will ultimately be the health care of last resort for those who can't afford something else. In other words, you should become familiar with Medicaid and the VA Hospital systems to get a preview. Your next generation of doctors will all be salaried and have foreign-sounding names. You won't have to pay for it and you will pretty much get what you pay for, or even less, if you are in a top tax bracket. And the "Rich" will still be able to pay for and get something much better privately.
The Romans might have created a desert and called it peace, but the Democrats have created a fuster cluck, and call it health care reform. The health care "industry" is about 1/7th of the American domestic economy. So let's turn it over to Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, and Chris Reid and the like . . . then bend over and wait for your personal introduction to socialized medicine.
But this is a pointless post. Socialized medicine is a done deal. It was included in the stimulus package legislation (those thousand pages voted on before any lawmaker could have possibly read what they were voting for) and will be Teddy ("the Gurgling Cod/Mary Jo Kopechne) Kenedy's political memorial.
Have a nice day.
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Sorry. Excuse my faux paus
I meant the "Honoaable" Harry Reid, Christopher Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Barny Frank, etc.
Liberals all. Criminals all.
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Amoral. Wrong. Unnecessary.
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TCups - 3/8/2009 7:30 PM Believe me on this. National public medical care, socialized medicine, will be like public education and public housing -- it will be mismanaged, it will give politicians the power to make not only financial decisions, but also life and death health care decisions for you and your loved ones. And it will ultimately be the health care of last resort for those who can't afford something else. In other words, you should become familiar with Medicaid and the VA Hospital systems to get a preview. Your next generation of doctors will all be salaried and have foreign-sounding names. You won't have to pay for it and you will pretty much get what you pay for, or even less, if you are in a top tax bracket. And the "Rich" will still be able to pay for and get something much better privately. The Romans might have created a desert and called it peace, but the Democrats have created a fuster cluck, and call it health care reform. The health care "industry" is about 1/7th of the American domestic economy. So let's turn it over to Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, and Chris Reid and the like . . . then bend over and wait for your personal introduction to socialized medicine. But this is a pointless post. Socialized medicine is a done deal. It was included in the stimulus package legislation (those thousand pages voted on before any lawmaker could have possibly read what they were voting for) and will be Teddy ("the Gurgling Cod/Mary Jo Kopechne) Kenedy's political memorial. Have a nice day.
Well said, and very accurate, unfortunately.
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Watch Sicko. It has tapes of Nixon talking with another man about Kaiser Permanante, talking about the health insurance companies and how they're more buisnesslike than medical. From there, he made his policies.
And your referrence to them being criminals? What laws have they broken? By the way, our last president was indeed a criminal, voilating the Geneva Convention by torturing, illegally wire-tapping groups like Greenpeace, and countless other abuses of powers. The way I see it, conservatives have been criminals. Don't like my opinion? That's fine, but remember, I'm giving just the same opinion as you, just the opposite. Look into the mirror before you make judgements, because 9 times out of 10, you're just as bad.
By the way- There's countless embryonic stem cells destroyed EVERY DAY, and not by researchers. Here's a way to put them to use instead of wasting them.
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There you go again Michael, Quoting a document that you have very obviously never read, under the Geneva Convention, those illegal combatants can be shot on sight or dealt with at the desire of the commanding officer, in country.
And if you have evidence of illegal wire tapping, or any other violation of the law, you must bring it to the attention of the authorities immediately, or you may be held as an accomplice in this crime for withholding evidence !
Oh, and if you like Presidents with a criminal past,look intoWilliam Jefferson Clinton's (42)Felony convection for draft evasion. Pardoned by Richard Milhous Nixxon (37)
And Michael, I wouldn't be caught dead looking into your mirror :-(
Bill
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Hermie - 3/11/2009 7:49 PM Watch Sicko. It has tapes of Nixon talking with another man about Kaiser Permanante, talking about the health insurance companies and how they're more buisnesslike than medical. From there, he made his policies. And your referrence to them being criminals? What laws have they broken? By the way, our last president was indeed a criminal, voilating the Geneva Convention by torturing, illegally wire-tapping groups like Greenpeace, and countless other abuses of powers. The way I see it, conservatives have been criminals. Don't like my opinion? That's fine, but remember, I'm giving just the same opinion as you, just the opposite. Look into the mirror before you make judgements, because 9 times out of 10, you're just as bad. By the way- There's countless embryonic stem cells destroyed EVERY DAY, and not by researchers. Here's a way to put them to use instead of wasting them.
Agreed.
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Fellas, it's on my heart, in my mind all of the time, and I cannot escape it nor would I want to: The Lord's return is eminent. The six thousand years appointed unto mankind is over, and the Lord awaits word from His Father to return to remove the Body of Christ (what the world calls the Christians- somewhat misappropriately as the "Christians" referred to in the gospels of Matt. Mark Luke and John are New Covenant Prostylites) in what is known as the rapture before returning to His bride Israel. I know many of you will be raising an eyebrow, as the Catholic church, and nearly every evangelical church from Baptists to Nazarenes, and Evangelical Free to Community churches etc. are founded on the belief that they (we) are the Bride of Christ. I'm here to bring doctrine rather than to make friends, though both would be wonderful. The point being, this is all only the beginning of what is to come. NOTHING has come from embryonic stem-cell research, no matter what Michael J Fox would hope for, which is by the way totally understandable from his perspective. Problem is, it is HIS perspective. Jesus said that we are NOT to lean on our own understanding, as countless examples from evolution to stem cell research would show us, that it ends up disasterously. I fear that this country is in for a time in which it will never recover, and rather than getting into it in this thread, I would sit wishfully wanting that well meaning people such as Hermie and his ilk would accept Christ as their savior and be taken up rather to see in person the horrors which await over the near horizon. In my short 41 years I have seen our country sell it's soul for votes, and now both parties are nearly indistinguishable when it comes to our soverign borders, the precious lives of our unborn, the bastardization of the truth of how our nation was founded as it is tought in our public schools, and the open heartedt acceptance of those who would seek office who stand for no-one but themselves. I wonder what the beloved Jewish community who voted our current president into office on his promise of "loving Israel" are now thinking, after Obama just sent Hillary to Gaza with a check in hand for 900 million dollars for HAMAS to rebuild the very neighborhoods in which they were just months ago launching rockets into Israel, and will be doing so from the very same rooftops once rebuilt. I wonder what the MANY Christians (many of whom I sadly know) who voted for him are now thinking with the knowledge that his first act in office was to appropriate $20 million dollars to planned parenthood (man what an oxymoron). It should be called "Planned gratuitous *_*_*_*_*_* without consequence through abortion". I was a Federal agent during the middle Clinton years, and there was nothing different about that whole situation, accept that his promiscuity kept him from doing anywhere near the harm in his eight years that Obama has already done in his short time in office. Hermie and others, you will wake up one day and your world will be turned upside down when you hear words that will make 911 seem a childish playday from a far distant memory. Right now you fill your time with pointless arguements to make beliefs and decisions seem justified. "How could we stop abortion, especially when the fetal material is doing so much good? After all it's a woman's right to control her own body right?". These ludicrous and yes, sinful dilusional fallacies will pale to dust when you hear, in whatever way- TV, radio, word of mouth, etc. that perhaps 25 million people in the United States have simply vanished. They are gone, never to be found, seen, or heard from again. Unless, that is, you choose in that aweful time to accept that which you've previously written off as foolish beliefs held by weak minded people. What will you do? You will frantically call relatives, perhaps run through the street seeking out the ones who you had heard in the past were "religeous" neighbors. Your heart will sink to your feet, and a feeling you couldn't have possibly imagined even an hour before will now run your life for the next seven years, if you live that long. The only comfort you will have, if the news even gets to you, is that as bad as it will get here, it will be exponentially worse in Israel. The tie-in to the original question posed regarding Obama's decision to reverse prior stem cell bans, one of many horrible decisions to come, is this: don't get lost in the small tree of inevidable and sad decisions while losing sight of the forest that is upon us in the days we are living in. I have many people I speak with ask an honest question, and the answer is "no, Obama is not the anti-christ", for many reasons, he cannot be. To be sure however, the Lord has placed him here to fulfill a role in a nation that has all but left Him, to our own demise.