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Politics and Religion => Politics And Religion Discussion => : grackledown March 06, 2009, 12:04:29 PM

: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: grackledown March 06, 2009, 12:04:29 PM
Just wondering.
: RE: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: airgun/cuz March 06, 2009, 12:59:45 PM
I believe he was the anti-Obama!!!!
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Progun March 06, 2009, 04:56:01 PM
The answer is "NO".Do you understand what socialism/socialist mean in the common vernacular? I guess you don't know that Jesus wants you to be the best you can be and to be so good at it that you can afford to be able to help others who aren't as prosperous. Evidence? Ephesians 4:28, 1Thess. 4:11,12, 2Thess.3:10,11,12, 1 Timothy5:8.There are many more but this should get you started.
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Gene_SC March 07, 2009, 03:39:49 AM
Excellent answer David.
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Gene_SC March 07, 2009, 12:00:24 PM
Gerry, I have to correct you on one thing. The USPS is not run by the feds. It is a private corp.
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Gene_SC March 07, 2009, 02:01:38 PM
WOW, I can send documents via email and it only takes seconds instead of days for free and I love it. Cause the Feds have no business with our mail...:)  Besides they are screwing there selves with there high prices. Look how often they raise the price of stamps..:) Has cost me the same for the last 15 years to email all my legal documents. Also I never have to buy stamps any more because I have auto pay with the bank for no charge to me.
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: airgun/cuz March 07, 2009, 03:19:18 PM
Gerry,,I'm having a difficult time trying figure out what Jesus Christ has to do with the usps or our government!!! Maybe I'm missing your point,I just don't see where you are trying to go with this thead!!  Anyway Good Luck!!!!!!
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Progun March 07, 2009, 05:53:58 PM
Well Gerr, at least you like air rifles. but seriously..friend, would you believe that health care costs in this country are so high only because the Government won't get out of the way and let free market economics dictate what costs would be? You see, health care and the services provided by care givers, doctors, nurses, technicians and such are not entitlements that should be provided for free. No more than food from the grocery store is an entitlement that you somehow would have an inalianable right to.If you go to work at your job then I bet you expect to be paid. If you invested heavily in your education, bought a lot of expensive equipment to get started in business that you will take a while to pay for,and had a skill that was in demand, you deserve to make as much profit as you can for the service you provide. In a free market, other hard workers might compete against you for your customer base forcing all of you who are in that particular business to keep prices competitive and at a level that perpetuates a continued customer base.That's why we go to school.As far as the "Rich People" getting all the tax breaks. Your numbers are a little off there but that's not my point. The fact is the rich pay at punitive levels not in just this country but all over the world. And I never got a job from a poor person.If justice was truly blind it would be color blind as well as it certainly discriminates against the color green. The more you have of it the more you will be charged for your right to vote, right to trial by jury,and every other "right" listed in the Constitution of the United States.Fact.As far as how hard it will be for the rich man to go to heaven: All things are possible with God.Matthew 19:26,Mark 10:27,Luke 18:27.Moral of the story: Money is not evil, but people tend to be.
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Dutchspringer March 08, 2009, 03:31:33 AM
Man, didn't know this area was even on the site until this morning!
     Gene and progun, you guys are the man.  Grackle, you bring up interesting topic, one often brought up, but one I would call a "boondoggle".  Ascribing anything to Jesus- "what would He have done, what would He do now........etc. begs questions that we have only His parables, sermon on the mount, the beatitudes, etc. to go by, as well as all that He said and did throughout scripture.  There is no closure to  a discussion like this, I know because I have debated MANY  times with both Christians and non-Christians, and I can rarely get a definition of either group to even get a start.  The verse quoted regarding the camel and entering the kingdom of Heaven has been, and is so often quoted, but if there was time, I would show you that Christ is not referring-as so many think- to eternal life in the "heavenlies" that Paul talks about to the Body of Christ (what one might call "Christians"), but rather referring to what the Jew would call the "Promised Land"- the eternal Kingdom that Christ came to offer the Jew (the Children of Abraham to whom were offered the covenants), which sadly was not accepted but rather turned away (which fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah 53).  Jesus said that only in His own country is a prophet turned away, and he further said to the pharisees "I come in the name of My Father who sent me, and you accept Me not, If one will come in his own name (which he will by the way) him you will accept".  These days are nearly upon us, I am both afraid to say, and excited to say at the same time.  I am sad to see what is coming for this world, and especailly Israel, but can hardly wait for the event Paul tells awaits those who are "alive in Christ" as well as those who are "currently sleeping" (have passed away) but will be taken up in the twinkling of an eye even before us living folks.  Grackle, the verse you quoted is regarding the precious few Jews, Jesus own people, who-just as when He was on this earth the first time, will accept His message of the New Covenant the second time around when it is brought amidst the seven year period known as the tribulation.  Unlike most of us "Cristians" believe, or understand as we were taught as children growing up, the parables are not a template to "show us how to live", but rather the things Israel must do to "enter the Kingdom of Heaven", which is why Jesus starts them all out with "The kingdom of Heaven is like unto........". Incidentally, "the Kingdom" with Christ at His throne for one final thousand year period before a "final reckoning"  and an eventual brand new Heaven and earth, will be in and on the exact geographical parameters as the original garden of eden, again fulfilling what Ecclesiastese says "as it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end,......all in it's seasons".  It all began in the garden of eden, and it will end for Israel in the same place for eternity, but this time with Christ their "husbandman" on His throne, and they as His pure and acceptable bride,never again seeking other "husbands"- false gods.  I love your threads Grackle, we would definately be shooting together at my "seccret pidgeon barn"  if you were in Colorado, but don't get too  bogged down in politics here on this earth.  Vote, let your "yes" be "yes", and your "no" be "no", raise your children to know and love Jesus and His doctrine in scripture, and know to keep their eyes towards the heavens!  I believe the time here on this earth  is short for "those who know and love Him, and are called according to His purpose".  Boy that was windy, sorry guys.  
     What am I gonna do now?  I already have no time left for Hunting Gate, not as much time as I'd like for Airgun Gate, and now an area on Religion and Politics,  I'm HOSED"!  Take care guys, I imagine there will be responses to this which I will in turn respond to, but I truly believe that the Lord brought this site to me to fill in a hard time, as I have watched a business of twelve years that has supported  my wife and four great kids literally go away like the wind.  With jobs applied for, and taking what the Lord brings to us in any manner financially, I rest in Him.  This forum, and guys like Gene have been a blessing in this largest of "inbetween times".  It's scary sometimes, but what a great time to go through my mid-life crisis and second time around with airguns!
     God Bless you guys,.......Ross
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: TCups March 08, 2009, 06:29:25 AM
If you are not a Christian and don't believe in Jesus Christ, then why would you even speculate on that which concerned Jesus?  Or do you believe Jesus was real, only not the Christ -  just a "good guy" with "good intentions" who wanted to help out the poor and downtrodden -  a Che Guevera sort of Jew?   Whatever your religion or personal belief, know this: America was founded on the Judeo-Christian ethic.  No freedom-loving country and no ethical form of government can survive without ethical principles.  And I believe it was Jesus himself who instructed his disciples that "the poor will always be among us."  

Please read this one article, if for no other reason than to get some insight into the oxymoronic minds of religious Conservative and on the principles on which the USA were founded.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/PoliticalPhilosophy/HL515.cfm

Here's a counter question:  Are the 10 Commandments Constitutional?  Reference included.

------------------

You shall have no other gods before me.
 
You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
 
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
 
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
 
Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
 
You shall not murder.
 
You shall not commit adultery.
 
You shall not steal.
 
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
 
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s."
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: airgun/cuz March 08, 2009, 06:42:39 AM
AMEN!!!!!!!!
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: airgunandy March 08, 2009, 09:09:21 AM
No, He isn't a Socialist. He isn't a Capitalist.
He isn't a Liberal and He isn't a Conservative, or Democrat or Republican.

He is God.  He told us so. That is the main reason people wanted to crucify Him. If He was "just a good man", He was also either a lunatic or a liar.
As God, He cares about all people, including the poor, the sick, the widowed, and the orphaned. And the rich, and the healthy.
But He cares about more than just "our daily bread." He came to free us from the bondage of sin.


Jesus is the only one who can truly give us hope. He is the only one who can bring us real change.
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: TCups March 08, 2009, 01:35:24 PM
Another of the Vast Right Wing Conservative dirty tricks, no doubt?
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: airgun/cuz March 08, 2009, 01:37:35 PM
Gerry,,Thank God I don't live in your community!!!!!!
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: TCups March 08, 2009, 01:47:45 PM
Why do you think?
: RE: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: TCups March 08, 2009, 01:54:04 PM
Who Jesus Christ was and what he believed can only be found in your own true heart and mind, sir.  Not in any blog. But if you seek Him, I suspect you will find Him and have your questions answered.  Otherwise, you are just blogging for the hell of it, right?

: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: airgun/cuz March 08, 2009, 02:07:16 PM
The reason why is basically in this thread you have started!!! I understand that we are all entitled to are beliefs & faith,I just can't understand why you asked about Jesus Christ being a socialist & you don't even believe in what he represents!!!!! That alone is reason why I thank God I don't live in your community,,,To say it better,if I lived in any community that you represented,I would probably be better off with a buulet in my head!!!!!!  I am not trying to be offensive,I just can't believe that you have started this thread & you yourself have no idea what you are looking to accomplish!!!!!!   I hope you get what your looking for!!!!!!   GOOD LUCK!!!!!!  JESUS LOVES YOU ANYWAY!!!!!!!
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: airgun/cuz March 08, 2009, 02:47:12 PM
And why do I care!!!!! I must of missed your puchline!!!!!  BTW,,I never said I was dignified or productive!!!!! All I said was that you have no idea what you want from this thread,you mentioned it earlier when you responded to MR.TCUPS,your having a good time!!!!! That my friend is pathetic!!!!! You gotta be a Red Sox Fan!!!!!
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: airgun/cuz March 08, 2009, 02:50:13 PM
Gerry,,Have a blessed night!!!!  This is JOE CUZ signing out!!!   Over!!!!
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Bentong March 08, 2009, 11:27:18 PM
Wow, this is a good topic to vent out and share the emptiness in your soul and have not found Jesus Christ. To me it's the same Jesus that confused individuals put labels on him. I would rather be be him that brings hope and goodness to be in his kingdom than to Others that killing oneself & others, create confusion and share their emptiness and discontentment to the kingdom that they were misguided. Whenever I pray, I include those that are lost and don't know how to pray. It's always a good feeling going this. BTW, this is a productive topic for those that want to go around a circle chasing their tails..kind of attention they have dearly been longing. Jesus love YOU.
: RE: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Dutchspringer March 09, 2009, 03:43:52 AM
Hey Grackl and anyone who cares to read,
     I want to take a second before heading out to face another day here in Denver to say just a few things.  Having read the entire set of threads regarding this topic, I must reply to the topic, not because I am anything special or are more knowledgeable etc. but because I've run into this all many times before.  There is a reason that movies like the divinci code and it's sequal are coming out and are so popular, even though this old story has been around for two thousand years.  There is a reason that this climate is changing no matter what we try or don't try to do to change it.  There is a reason that a father of four children and a wife is looking at a world in which he sometimes thinks "what in the world was I thinking, bringing these precious little ones into this mess?".   There is a reason that there are UFO sightings around this globe every six to eight seconds, the greatest in history-despite the fact that they have been occuring verifyably for over four thousand years, and the leading spots in the world are centered in the middle east, specifically in Turkey.  They now have a museum dedicated to this phenomenon there.  Did you know that bigfoot/sasqwatch sightings are at an all-time high?  Do you know where "they" are showing up now?  HAWAII AND THE PHILLIPINES.  That makes about as much sense as  what's happening around  the rest the world- an 8 to 11 foot, approximately 450 to 600 lb. creature that has not been noted to have been in either of these places before, showing up now.  They must have come there to enjoy the beaches and the climate.  The sarcasm is purposeful.  There are few left who doubt the existance of UFO's anymore, unless they have been under a mushroom and refused to look outside it.  Grackle and others of like mind, there is no more truth or answers to be found in politics and the ACLU, than there is to be found in studying  why a "being in a craft" would come 4.7 light years ( distance to our nearest solar system-Alphacentauri) and not fulfill any task or make contact other than to create upheaval and wonder and then zip out of sight -breaking laws of physics and motion.  The universities in the United States, as well as around the globe are clinging desperately to their theories of Darwinian Evolution, despite the fact that every day another  piece of this faulty theory is shredded  in light of the information that the Hubble telescope  and archeology is bringing us.  I have always wondered what humanists and evolutionists do with their thoughts when they are alone with no-one and nothing to distract them.  How do they run from the fact that they KNOW that they will never be able to reconcile the laws of physics and motion with Darwin's theories, or any other theory for that matter, which involves a big-bang.  The very facts of motion and time that they are "teaching" in the day at the university, deny and belie the "something came from nothing" theories that they take home with them at night.  Grackle, I will tell you that scripture tells us that man seeks where he came from, and yurns to know his Creator from the moment he/she is born.  Christ said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, NONE shall come to the Father but by ME".  This is maddening to someone who is trying  desperately to "do it on my own".  It will never work to do it on our own.  It is all frivolity unless done to the Lord's glory.  The comment you made regarding Israel was in error, at least regarding me and my family.  I love Israel for several reasons.  First of all, we are told that to bless Israel is to be blessed ourselves.  Christ was a Jew, and promised that though it was foretold that she would not accept him as her husbandman, He would NEVER leave her, but would rather return to her when she would one day finally turn away from other gods and desires and turn to Him .   Unfortunately, this must come after the days referred to as "the times of Jacobs troubles".  I believe, as I've mentioned, that these times are nearly upon us.  You mention that you do not believe in the diety of Christ, the Bible, etc.  Jesus said that "none are so blind as those who will not see".  He also said "Better you be hot or cold, for you who are lukewarm- I spew you out of my mouth".  If you don't accept Him for who He is, the son of God, then don't worry about complimenting Him with statements about being a "good man".  I don't even know you but I love you, so think about how much the on e who created you loves you!  The Lord knew that you would be reading this thread, and maybe others out there, and so I will finish with this.  The reason for all of the "reasons" statements made in the beginning of this thread is that Lucifer knows his time here to take affect upon Israel is coming to a close.  We are at the end of the six thousand years appointed unto man, and he also knows-as he reads and knows scripture, that Israel will fulfill prophecy by accepting this man who will carry many names- such as "the son pf purdition " etc., but perhaps most noteably "the Assyrian".  Grackle, a time may come very soon where your world will change down to your very core, and the worst upheaval you can imagine economically, climatically, and emotionally, and physically will occur.  You say you don't believe in a rapture, but you see, if I'm wrong I lose nothing, but if you're wrong you could lose everything.  I pray with all my heart that you may look back on this thread and realize not that "Dutchspringer" was right, but that the Bible was right.  It will NOT  be too late!  You can accept Christ as your savior at any moment you choose, but that's the key- YOU must choose because no-one can choose for you just as I cannot choose for my neighbors or my family.  They must accept Christ's death on the cross and His resurrection as FULL payment for their sins, and move on to tell others so that they may hear of this decision that every man and woman must make.  I won't apologize for being windy or a bit off track this time, because the topic is too important.  As a five year law enforcement officer, a 21/2 year federal agent, and now a "past" owner of a business for 12 years that the Lord has apparently chosen to end,  I am now off to sign paperwork for a part-time job that may or may not even make up the gas money that it will take to make the deliveries.  This is what the Lord has put in front of me right now, and He will give me the strength to do this as well.  Keep up the good fight out there brothers, and for those who are not yet my brother in Christ, I would beg you to become one if it would make a difference- but we all know it wouldn't.  Us humans ar a funny sort, so often it takes trauma and pain to move us.  So be it, but remember that none of us know the number of our days, and you can't make a decision for Christ after you're  dead.  God Bless you guys, Ross
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: TCups March 09, 2009, 04:10:43 AM
So you are implying moral relativism?  Is this about "truth" or about what is morally "right" and "wrong"?  

Truth is relative.  Your truth can easily and often differ from mine.  Honesty is being truthful with others.  Integrity is being truthful with yourself.  Morality is following a moral code, in my case, the Judeo-Christian Ethic, on which this country was founded.  One can be absolutely truthful and still be completely amoral.  So honesty and integrity, while certainly necessary, are no guarantee of, or substitute for moral and ethical behaviors in an individual and in a society as a whole, sir.

I care not for any abstraction about whether Jesus was a Socialist.  And to argue our individual religious beliefs or lack thereof serves no better purpose that arguing why, for example, I might like the taste of cauliflower and you don't.  

I do care very deeply about an ethical, moral and enduring society -- one that is a good place to live and to raise a family and to prosper in freedom without fear of our Government.  I care for religious freedom, and the preservation of our constitutional rights.  You may recall that our American principles of freedom stem from the premise that God, not government, endowed us with our basic freedoms and rights, as individuals and citizens, but that with those come personal accountability and responsibility.  I believe this to be true.  I believe God also endowed each of us with an innate sense of right and wrong, and that societies, through the ages have codified this sense of moral rightness in enduring laws of behavior that ultimately determine whether societies will prosper or die.  The 10 Commandments are one of the best and most succinct.  You don't need to be a Bible thumping, "brother are ye saved?" (liberal stereotypical extreme right-wing) Christian, or even a Christian for that matter, to understand a couple of simple phrases, for example:

God Bless America, land that I love.
In God We Trust
One nation, under God.

Surrender God-given rights and freedoms and the requisite individual moral behaviors that must necessarily follow to any set of secular laws defined by elected legislators or unelected judges, surrender to moral relativism, and watch what happens to any God-less society.  I believe Daniel Patrick Moinyham coined the phrase some years ago -- "defining deviancy down".  He was a prescient fellow, and a great Democrat.

I love my country, but I fear my government.  God, please help us preserve this great nation and may God bless America.  

OK?
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: TCups March 09, 2009, 04:21:51 AM
Do you?

Yes, of course I desire the blessings of liberty and freedom and individual responsibility for all peoples, of all colors, of all religions, of all *_*_*_*_*_*ual persuasions.  It is my belief that those blessings come from God and when accompanied by moral behavior and individual responsibility, the world will be a lot better place.  Surrender your freedoms and abandon principles and moral behavior and . . .

Well, how did the tune go:  Bow down before the one you serve, your gonna' get what you deserve.

I am very sorry about your loss of employment.  There are lots of folks suffering.  Do you think the "stimulus" has made any difference?  Do you think it will be the Government that "saves" us in this crisis or that if Government just got the hell out of the way we'd be better off.

Did you live and work through the era of Jimmy Carter?
: RE: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: airgun/cuz March 09, 2009, 04:30:30 AM
Ross,,That was beautifully said & full of sincerity,if I wasn't already a believer of our Lord & Savior,I would no doubt believe after reading your post!!! I have long accepted Jesus Christ as my savior(1994) I was not seeking anything at that time in my life,let alone Christ,if I told you of events that were taken place in my life at that time,most would think that I was insane,I don't know how or why but a force much greater than myself,which I believe is the holy spirit brought me to my faith & yes I tried to turn away,everywhere I turned,that spirit was with me & I decided to except it for whatever it may or may not be,at that time of exceptance,things about me were changing,words that I used & the derogatory ways in which I used them were no longer part of my vocabulary,I never made an attempt to try & chage my vocabulary,it just happened,I will not say that I am a church goer or a righteous man nor will I say that I believe everything in the bible,it is a book written by man,it's like the guy who goes fishing & catches a 3lb flounder, after he tells his story numerous times over,that same flounder has now become a 800lb shark!!!!
I believe in Christ & what he represents & yes I try to live my life as he would want me to,I never read the bible but I do know the bible,not word for word but the way the lord wants me to know it!!!!  Great Post Ross!!!!   GOD BLESS YOU!!
: RE: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: moe1942 March 10, 2009, 12:30:55 AM
If Jesus was a socialist then socialism, like everything else that is screwed up and evil, has become perverted by man.

Very simply, Jesus was benevolent. Socialists today are malevolent.
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Hermie March 11, 2009, 12:57:44 PM
Jesus was non-political. However, after some thought, I see the term "Religious Right" as a contradiction in terms. If the right-wing was truly religious, they would follow Jesus's example and help the poor and decrepid instead of saying "They're just lazy" and concentrating on their own lives and pocketbooks. If anything, liberals would be more akin to Jesus in this aspect of helping those less fortunate.
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Gene_SC March 11, 2009, 01:34:16 PM
I think you guys have beat this Post To Death.. Why not let it rest in peace.....
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Big_Bill March 11, 2009, 02:07:16 PM


Oh Michael,



Yes the Liberals are the one that "care" for the sick, the weak and poor, but there very happy to pay for them with YOUR MONEY !!! HAHAHA There the cheapest suckers when it comes to donations, out of their personal pockets. Their interest is only in getting people (sheeple) like you, to Vote for them !



As for the term Religious Right, it only describes Religious People that are Conservative People. Unlike Religious Left, which is an oxymoron !



From this post, it is quiet obvious that you have no beliefs or opinions of your own, and are just posting to prove to yourself that you are still alive ?



And as for the poor andsick, it was believed in the time of Jesus, that these people were sinners, and cursed by God for their sins, or the sins of their fathers. And I don't remember Jesus going to Leper Colonies to feed and cure them, or any other group in his time.



And if you don't mind answering,,,,what donations have you given to the poor, what Soup Kitchens have You worked in to feed the hungry, when was the last time you gave a beggar a meal ?????? Or cure the sick, maybe raise the dead,and don't countyourself, you don'tqualify???



Bill

: Who IS Jesus Christ?
: 3n00n March 11, 2009, 06:12:42 PM
TheLORDOFHOSTS is ALPHA AND OMEGA, CREATOR OF ALL -which is beyond the scope or comprehension of mortal men.
`
The GODHEAD is a Patriarchal government, and cares for all members.
`
Governments of men are never comparable,since men are corrupt, as are their governments.
`
Since viewing yourself as greater than the LORD OF HOSTS is blasphemy, I would suggest you findless offensiveways to 'amuse' yourself!
: RE: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Dutchspringer March 12, 2009, 05:04:55 AM
Hey Cuz,
     Finally had a second and wanted to thank you for those kind words.  I am nothing but that which Christ makes of me, isn't that true for all of us.  Time is short my brother, keep your eyes looking up to the heavenlies!
     God Bless!  Ross
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Hermie March 13, 2009, 09:59:13 AM
Bill- I live in a rural area, predominately rich old people. There aren't much opportunities to help those in need. But just today, I dropped some money in a college fund for a musician's son at the local Celtic Fair for this weekend. I also gave some momey to a poor street guitatrist in Monterey when I went with my girlfriend's parents.

And from your post I can see you don't have good comprehension skills, because I have posted my opinions several times.



"Treat me as you would treat the lowest of your people..."
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Big_Bill March 13, 2009, 12:22:28 PM


How unlike a Democratic Liberal to personally offer assistance !



Doesn't that make you feel better ? Every day should start a new beginning, and everyday you should learn something new ! Your on your way to recovery !



And it's: you have poor comprehension skills ! "I see you have poor comprehension skills".



I feel strongly that your opinions are a ploy to continue this "discussion", not what You truly believe.



"Treat me as you would treat the lowest of your people...", isn't that a quote of Christs ? Are you telling us that you are Christ ? I think a few bucks here and there is a very good start, but not quite Christlike.



But I am starting to respect you ! Keep up the good works .



Bill



: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Hermie March 13, 2009, 05:33:12 PM
I've also been a volunteer tutor at my old high school for a semester, after getting paid the year before. With schools not getting the funding they need (especially with the California budget that Republicans seriously stalled because they refused to comprimise until the people started getting *_*_*_*_*_*ed), I decied to not get paid the second time around. I'm also a contributing member of Defenders of Wildlife.

Oh, and I said that to give you something to think about, seeing as how un-Christlike the "Religious Right" truly is.


And what suggests that what I am saying isn't actually my opinions?

When it comes to social policies, I believe that the US would benefit from some Socialist policies, like Universal Health Care and improved education. Fiscally, I'm more conservative, but where money needs to be spent, one should not be stingy, and use COMMON SENSE!
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Dutchspringer March 17, 2009, 03:26:27 AM
Hey there Hermie,
     Nice to read your threads.  There is a fatal flaw however in the otherwise "nice thinking" logic you're using to come to your conclusions.  First a metaphore- thinking that we "should"  have universal health care, and thinking that we "should"  have "improved" education because it would be "nice" is like a mother who makes a statement like "It would be so nice if my son Billy could meet a sweet girl and live happily ever after" when little Billy is a 35 yr. old who still lives with his mom in her unfinished basement, is a fat slob who won't work, and showers once every two weeks whether he needs it or not.  This world thinks if something "tickles" the ear, or sounds fancy or "right", that it must have some moral or justifiable imperative behind it.  Wrong.   Like the chance that any right minded woman would see anything in "little Billy" to where she would want to invest herself and her treasure into him is obviously far fetched and a probable impossibility, UNLESS he can find someone as disfunctional as himself.  
     The reason that universal healthcare will not work is the same reason that so many other things in and out of society will not work; without incentive, man will not do something because it is "right", they will only do something if it provides benefit to one's self, family, or person place or thing which holds some kind of value to him/her.  I have two college degrees- one in social work like my father before me, and the other in psychology.  While I finished up my first one, and went on to begin my second, two of my best friends were just BEGINNING their entrances into medical schools.  I had long since finished my second degree, and they were not even half-way through their first HALF of medical school, much less their specializations.  When Dave, for instance, finished his specialty in ear nose and throat surgery, he owed over $400,000 to Vanderbuilt University in Hershey PA!  No, he didn't go through the misery, and much of it was misery and grind, JUST  to make money, but taking care of his parents who had gutted out a landscape business for 35 yrs. to provide him and three brothers and sisters was always at the back of his mind.  He will be paying on that loan for 30 YEARS, and considers it a "second" mortgage that he has to pay along with his house payment.  I believe that he deserves  every dime that he can make in the business he has chosen, and without people just like Dave and my other friend Brad, there is no one for us all to go to when we have a medical problem.  This will not ever occur if the incentive is not there.  Even a hundred thousand dollar "incentive" (salary) will not begin to pay his med school bills and allow him to make the further investments into his office, equipment, all of the medical supplies and machinery etc., and staffing.  It is a sad but simple fact that "socialized medicine" will result in what every other governmentalized, compartmentalized, and socialized program ends up in, and that is a top-heavy, ineffectual, and bloated pig of an operation.  Our public school system here in America is tha absolute epitome of an example.  Here in Colorado, we have an above average ranked public school system compared to the rest of the United States in terms of the criteria that the government uses to "grade" public pre-college schools.  My dad was in this system for 30 years as a school social worker.  Our state is now at an average "per-student" cost of nearly $14000 PER YEAR to attend k-12the grade!.  WE HAVE A 40% DROP OUT RATE FOR WHITES, 68%  DROP OUT RATE FOR BLACKS, AND OVER 80% DROP OUT RATE FOR HISPANICS!  My three school age kids go to a private (never liked that word for some reason) Christian school that has a GREAT education, lots and lots of homework (too much), and teachers that make LESS THAN $14 PER HOUR!  We pay LESS THAN HALF of what the state tax dollars go to pay for a public school student to attend school, and the outcome is so far and away better that a comparison can't even be made.  My father and mother spent the better part of both of their paychecks to send me and my three sisters to a Christian school, and again, the outcome was five college degrees in total (not because we are anything special, but because the inequality of the two systems- private v.s. public is so staggering).  In summation, your heart, like so many, is in the right place, but I must be bluntly honest and say that man's heart and it's aims to do "good" only lead to folly.  This is scriptural, and sadly, NO amount of money will change the statistics in the public schools, and sadly, this is also why no amount of money in the "stimulus" package is goiing to change America's situation.  It will not bring back the automotive industry, it will not bring back industry to a country who has voted for China and Wal-Mart with our pocket books, and most of all- sadly for me and my family- it will not bring back a housing and construction industry which has for 15 or more years been riding on the backs of an illegal population which- at a rate of over 4000 per day-have been pouring over our borders.  Neither party in our country wants to do anything about it, and I can tell you as a past federal agent, as well as a 12 year contractor and master carpenter, this country is now in a jam that only the Lord could get us out of it- and last I checked, there aren't too many folks asking Him these days.  Days are short Hermie,  don't concern yourself with socialized medicine and pouring more money that we don't have into a broken system of public schools, because the results will be the same or worse.  As few as 5 yrs. ago, we were spending just over $9000 per student in the Denver Public Schools, and our drop-out rate was LOWER than it is now.  Chris Romer, state representative and son of our esteemed (ugggg) past governor Roy Romer, is now trying to pass legislation for public schooling k-college to not only be funded, but legal for all children of immigrants, and it may well pass the house and senate here in our now completely Democrat -run government here.  Our state, like our government in the US willl not do anything about the 35 million illegal Mexicans, and now we will do nothing about their children.  I love all men, women, and children as they are all created by God, but we as a nation are in big, big trouble.  A man far wiser than I once said "no army or nation is strong enough to beat sheer population", and that is exactly what we are up against.  Sorry about the diatribe on the topic of illegal immigration, but it all boils down to the same fact that scripture has told us for thoudsands of years- "the wisdom of men is folly".  That's enough for now,  Ross
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Hermie March 25, 2009, 11:15:52 AM


Yes, while there are greedy people in this country fighting each other for money, things will never work like they do so well in other countries. While there are still "Health Insurance" companies that refuse treatment for their profits and investigate your claims like murder cases and hospitals that charge outrageous amounts that will put an uninsured person into debt well beyond their death, it will never work. The system itself will not support such a change. This is why the system needs to be completely broken down and rebuilt. Like the Public Education system. Thejerk of a Republican president we had decided that schools should be punished when they aren't doing good enough instead of helping them to do better when they need it. Thus, they slip downhill in a vicious cycle that will need a complete overhaul to repair. America- The Land of the Almighty Dollar.



Edited by Gene Curtis

Hermie, stop using foul language in your posts. Read the GTA Rules and Policies

: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: TCups March 25, 2009, 01:39:35 PM
See additional editorial comments:

Yes, while there are greedy people (capitalists) in this country (America, land of opportunity) fighting each other (competing financially) for money (in a free market economy), things (the things Big Government and socialists think are important) will never work (be controlled) like they (are alleged to) do so well in other (socialist) countries (with an elite, totalitarian ruling class to determine what is "best" and has the unrestrained power to institute such policies).

While there are still "Health Insurance" companies (private enterprises providing a needed financial service) that refuse (100% reimbursement for some prohibitively expensive, or perhaps not medically necessary?) treatment (instead of incurring costs far in excess of the premiums paid by their insured) for their profits (instead of going bankrupt, like government-run Medicare and Medicaid programs have, even with the ability to pass the bill on to the taxpayers) and investigate your claims like murder cases (as you contractually agreed to, when you bought the policy) and hospitals that charge outrageous (the outrage is there, yes, but perhaps not the hospital's fault) amounts (costs, necessitated by providing indigent care, complying with ballooning bureaucratic regulations, and the necessities of potential legal liabilities for anything but the absolute highest standard of care) that will put an uninsured person (who has made the financial decision to own one or two cars, cell phone, cable and a wide screen TV, nice air rifles,  computer,  4-bedroom house, and other necessities of life, instead of a basic medical insurance policy) into debt (which they incurred for the services of doctors, nurses, hospitals, pharmacies -- and did you think the debt doesn't accrue because the uninsured don't pay?) well beyond their death (our kids will have to pay those massive debts either way), it will never work (like some say it will work in the perfect, utopian socialist society).

The system itself (government imposed bureaucracy, trillions of dollars of tax debt, wasteful spending, and the demonstrably failed social welfare programs of the last 40-50 years) will not support  such a change. (hell no!, why would those "entitled" to these "free" benefits paid for by a minority of taxpayers want to change?)

This is why the system (ideally, American Constitutional law and founding principles of freedom and personal responsibility) needs to be completely broken down (degraded even more, until capitalism is completely destroyed) and rebuilt (in the form tyrannically imposed by folks like Obama and Hermie, who know what is best for the rest of us, instead of private medicine responding to a free market economy).

Like the Public (non) Education system (one of the poorest of any modern industrialized country).

The jerk of a Republican president (the Hated George Bush) we had (elected) decided (on his own, without any constraints from the Democratic Congress and liberal Supreme Court decisions, existing law, etc.?) that (substandard) schools should be punished (held accountable as stewards of billions in taxpayers money for our kid's education) when they aren't doing good enough (insert your own horror story of what goes on in public schools these days) instead of helping (throwing more money at) them (teachers, NEA, government policy bureaucrats) to do better (have a free and unfettered hand to teach whatever they deem appropriate) when they need it (because no matter how much money they get, it is never enough).

Thus, they slip downhill (unaccountable for their own failures, the obvious "victim" of the hated George Bush) in a vicious cycle (of tax and spend, secular over religious, define deviancy down, reward mediocrity, etc) that will need a complete overhaul (higher taxes, more spending, more government intrusion) to repair (achieve liberal socialist ideal for educating our kids).

America- (Amerika) The Land of the Almighty (almighty - non-secular, please) Dollar (it's the economy, stupid).

[liberal statist-socialist dribble, Howie.  You are a clueless automaton and you are demonstrably suffering from a malignant form of liberal intellectual bankruptcy.  Please follow Gene's suggestion and clean up your language.  It is doubly irritating to for others to endure both your foul language and your misguided flaming liberal rantings.  Have a nice day]

Edited by Gene Curtis

Hermie, stop using foul language in your posts. Read the GTA Rules and Policies
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: Big_Bill March 25, 2009, 02:04:39 PM


Michael,



After reading every post that you have written, I have come to the conclusion that you can only be a TROLL !



If you believe anything that you have posted, you should be at the Hospitals andHospices caring for the dieing AIDs patients. Giving your worldly capitalistic wealth and possessions to the sick and poor. Not wasting our time on your childish rants and ravings. Go forth young man (?) and become Father Michael. Show us how YOU can be better than Mother Tresa ! Shed your bondage of the material belongings that corrupt you, and go forth and show these Utopian beliefs that you purport,with your works, not your words. In plain English, Put Up, or Shut Up. Talk is Cheep !



Bill

: RE: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: ShadowShot March 25, 2009, 02:38:53 PM


Kudos Bill


: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: erskine April 01, 2009, 03:31:43 PM
Psalms 46:10  Be still and know that I am God.

This is a passage that I taught my children.  I also taught them that it means, "You have the right to choose how you feel."  That is what I said.  You decide.  How can God tell us to be still and know that he is God, if we are not able to choose how we feel?  You get to choose how you feel, not someone else, not even God.  YOU CHOOSE and therefore YOU are held responsible.  If it were otherwise, how could you be held responsible?

: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: North Pack April 01, 2009, 11:29:05 PM
Did something just happen to "separation of church and state"???
: Re: Was Jesus Christ a socialist?
: erskine April 04, 2009, 04:26:23 PM
Hmmm...  Jesus was not a socialist.  He said, "Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's, render unto God that which is God's."  Jesus was not a socialist.  He said, "Therefore do not worry, saying, "What shall we eat?' or "What shall we drink?' or "What shall we wear? For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble."  He taught that all is provided by God, not government.  The problem today is that there are so many who view government as God and fail to understand that any government which believes itself to be God, is doomed and damned.