GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Gamo Gate => : sshewins April 24, 2009, 03:33:35 AM
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Looking at pyramid's site, it says (in a whisper) the .177 gives 1000 FPS and the .22 has 750 FPS. I'm thinking more of the whisper due to "the neighbor factor". Using a 'borrowed' daisy 880 multiple pump, I know the .177 will take out a tree rat just fine, so I guess my question is this: which would be better, overall, the .177 or the .22? I know the .22 has more impact energy with less velocity, but is it enough to take out, say a large crow that ate the kids Easter eggs hidden outside? Or should I want more velocity (.177) and less impact energy?
Thanks in advance, Scott
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If you were going to use the rifle predominantly for hunting than I personally would say go with the .22 but if it's main purpose is going to be backyard plinking and taking out the occasional pest than I would say go with the .177
You are correct,,,,, a well placed shot with a .177 at reasonable range is indeed deadly on tree rats, bunnies and of course it goes without saying starlings, pigeons and just about any other pest bird you may aim at,,,, including a crow....
There is a larger variety of .177 pellets on the market, they are usually easier to find locally at gun shops and such and they are also usually cheaper than the .22 version (not always but sometimes).
So, my suggestion would be to go with the .177 you'll be able to hunt with it if you want to and it'll make a great target rifle as well....
I'm sure you'll get other opinions as more members see your post.....
Jeff
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I agree with Jeff on the .177 for general hunting and pest control. Get yourself a solid shooter and several brand's of pellet's to see what kind of lead that she spit's out with good accuracy. The .177 is capable of dropping larger game but shot placement and pellet selection is a must. Ed
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You know Scott,...you kinda answered your own question in you post!!! Keep your mind on foot pounds of energy and don't be too concernned with velocity. 4 1/2 to 5 fpe is all that's needed to send a squirrel into the next life!!!!! Both calibers can do that out to 35/40 yards with a standard '1000/800 fps rated' springer (.177 and .22) and average weight pellets. Shot placement is paramount at the outer-limits (past 30 yards). Like Ed said,...find the best pellet that shoots in you rifle and stick with it,....for hunting, I recommend dome style pellets. I've dropped a BT at 20 yards with a 450 fps .177 . These "BB-Guns" are stronger than most people realize!!!!!! Happy Hunting!!!!tjk
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Don't forget to deduct a bit from the stated fps - those are not real-world numbers. Maybe if the gun is new and dieseling for the first 100 shots. If I see 1000 fps, I expect the low 900's. And a .22 at 650 fps packs sufficient wallop for about anything you'll be hunting. Also, don't expect the gun to be literally whisper quiet. Haven't heard one, personally, but they say most of a springer's noise is from the power plant and not the air exiting the muzzle.
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Ohhh baby this is one of the biggest topics in regards to air guns. I have personally done quite a bit of research and real world hunting with air guns. All I can give is my own opinion. Im a .177 guy personally, I like the trajectory and speed of the round, and as said before with proper shot placement you'll be able to take just about anything a .22 in the same class can. And if you want to plink or target shoot, well the ammo is generally cheaper and more readily available.
Long live the .177's!
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I have had more luck with a .177 for bunny hunting than I ever have with
a .22.....for my money a good .177 for back yard plinking and the odd
bit of hunting....
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I'll chime in and say that although .177 is the dominant pellet by far, my BAM B-26 in .22 gives about 700 FPS with the CPHP pellets at 14.3 grains.
I had a Whisper that could do near 1,000 FPS with an 8 grain pellet like the Beeman FTS. This gives you something like 18 FPE for the Whisper. It had a Macari spring and a turbo tune, the stock gun cannot do this.
My BAM when new with a stock spring was above 700 and still close to that with the heavier pellet - 15.6 FPE, so similar in close range energy.
You have advantages in that the more massive pellet retains its energy at greater distances, and more importantly, at the lower velocity the ballistics are not so critical. My Whisper was very pellet sensitive, the Superdomes shot a different pattern than the FTS and the CPHP's or the Gamo Hunters. My B-26 is not very sensitive. It does just fine with the cheap pellets, and not too differently with any dome pellet I have tried.
Cost - I find that the CPHP pellets in .22 are about as good as any. They sell in tins of 500 for $8.25 at Pyramid. Buy four, get one free, so something like $30 for 2,000 pellets. Cheap but good. The high quality .177 pellets are way MORE expensive than these.
And regardless of the calculated numbers, my experience (mostly shooting at pellet traps in the 20-30 yard range) is that the BAM would clank that trap (the little Gamo) and put dings in the steel far exceeding the Whisper.
All that, and the high performance springer will require a lot of technique and refinement in scope mounting, etc that is not necessary for the lower velocity rifle. This all replicates for me with the 750 FPS Slavia CZ 634. Months of adjustments and practice, pellet trials, scope and mounting swaps, etc. did produce some results with my Whisper, but the first time I shot the Slavia, I got a better pattern than any of perhaps 30-40 efforts with the Whisper. I'm very happy with the Slavia, but it has about 9 FPE. Fine for my plinking purposes, but if I get mad at a grackle, that B-26 is the choice for me.
My new (to me) single pump pneumatic rifle pushes a .177 pellet at 575 FPS. That's just 6 FPE, but accuracy is amazing if you want to put pellets on the bullseye.
I saw Johnny Quest shoot his .22 Whisper at the NTAGM shoot, and it was very impressive. He did have Mike Melick tune it, and replace the plastic stock. See:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10516&posts=5&highlight=whisper&highlightmode=1#M115468
Watching his impressive results at distance, I think I would still have a Whisper if it had been a .22, although Randall had an adventure making it work this well.
My first rifle was a .22, and I think if I had to reduce to one, I would keep the larger caliber. This is probably not the most popular conclusion, but you might give it a thought.
p.s. the "quietness" of the Whisper is largely a marketing concept in my experience. Maybe a little improvement, NOT dramatic.
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I agree with you also Jerry I have no problem dropping Bandit's and other bigger critter's with my .22's. :) Ed
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I also agree,,,,, even though my .177 guns hunt very well I still prefer .22 for small game hunting.......
Jeff
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clear as mud LOL. A shop by me has both .177 & .22 for around $260 - in stock.
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Had a thought the other night. Would a .22 with trigger and tune be wise idea? Just thinking, I like the idea of the .22's impact energy, but would those two items make it a decent gun?
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Two things not mentioned which make a difference to me...
Having had both 177 and 22 pellet guns..... and now getting on in years..... I find that the 22 is much easier to load the pellets facing the right way without having to put on my reading glasses every time I reload. Also easier to pick up a 22 pellet with these stiff, old fingers.
At this rate, every ten years I'll have to go up quite bit in gun caliber. :D
Paul.
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What!! You are not even going to consider .20 cal?? (LOL).
The noise from the discharge of a springer air rifle comes primarily from the spring and piston slap of the power plant, not from muzzle "blast". The second biggest noise in backyard shooting with a pellet rifle is usually the pellet hitting the target.
If you want to consider a very accurate little springer as quiet as any you will ever shoot, take a look at the HW30S / .177 on sale now at Pyramid:
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?cx=002970863286801882398%3Ajlcminxfwdw&cof=FORID%3A11%3BNB%3A1&q=hw30s&sa=Search&search_for=hw30s&cmd_search=Search.
This rifle, in .177, shooting Polymag Predator pellets will be perfectly adequate for birds, squirrels, and small rodents out to 25-30 yards. It is quieter than any other springer air rifle I have ever shot. It has a Rekord trigger that is superb. It is not hold sensitive. It is very easy to cock. It is an absolute pleasure to shoot.
Just a thought.
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Something that has yet to be mentioned here is that the Whisper's powerplant is the SAME in both .177 and .22. Only the barrel is different. Therefore you'll get about the same amount of energy from the two different caliber guns (roughly 14-15 fpe from a stock power gun).
My broken-in (now with gas ram) .177 Whisper does an average of 910 fps with a (weighed) 8.1 grain CPHP (right at 15 fpe). Compare that to Jerrycup's BAM B-26 in .22 doing 700 fps with a 14.2 grain CPHP, the energy numbers are basically the same. The .22 retains more energy downrange (momentum), but also drops considerably more.
More food for thought. HTH!
PS - The whisper is only about 3 dB quieter than similar rifles in barrel noise. I actually think the powerplant is louder than most due to the synthetic stock. Overall, it isn't much quieter than other comparable air rifles.
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I would say go with .177 you can get ammo cheaper and it gets the job done just as well!
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I just recieved a airgunsusa.com catalog. Inside they have a Walther Falcon Hunter combo for 259.92 it shows a .22 with 1000FPS?
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Very powerful gun...... but also very harsh shooting as well.
Jeff
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So would a whisper in .22 with a tune (and trigger) be a better choise?
I'm declaring war on the tree rats that have taken up shelter in my rafters !!
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My recommendation would be to get a tuned B26 in .22 caliber from Mike at Flying Dragon Air Rifles. Th rifle is a chinese clone of the Beeman R-9. It's built well and is a fine shooting gun. Mike does a tune on it that really makes it shine. The rifle will shoot fantastic, it'll have a great trigger and it'll have the accuracy and the power to easily dispatch small game including tough tree rats. Mikes B-26's are one of the best buys out there....... Here's the website link
http://www.airgunartisans.com/flyingdragon/
Others may give you a different recommendation but that's mine.
Jeff
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Given that this is the Gamo gate, I didn't immediately think of this line of reckoning, but I had both a Whisper (tuned) in .177 and have a BAM B-26 in .22 (from Melick) and I still have the B-26...
Jeff knows much more about airguns than I, so there you have it. With the BAM, you get a far better stock trigger, and a smoother shooting gun. It's solid, and pretty powerful in the .22. The Whisper can be tuned for higher power perhaps, but I did not find much to prefer between these two.
You'll know you have a plastic gun if you buy the Whisper, and the trigger and the bundled scope with the "deluxe" are both seriously inferior elements. Apologies to Gamo fans...
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If you will be using your rifle mainly for hunting/ pest control I agree with other comments. Get the .22 calliber over the .177. I have (had) a serious squirrel problem at my home and have shot many squirrels from the same distances multiple times. The ones shot with the .177 will travel a greater percentage of times than the ones shot with the .22. The .22 will put them down right there. At least with the rifles that I am using. Gamo Big Cat .177 Beeman RS-2 in .22. I only use the .22 at this time on pests. Squirell count for 4 months: 30 .
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Inan answer to your question concerning the .22 cal Gamo whisper taking out a tree rat. The answer would be, absolutely!!! The 22 whisper is a fine shooter and you won't be disappointed.
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Thanks guys. I appreciate your input!!