GTA
Politics and Religion => Politics And Religion Discussion => : Gene_SC June 15, 2009, 10:41:47 AM
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The state law passed today, 37 to 9, had a few liberals in the mix, an amendment to place the Ten Commandments on the front entrance to the state capitol. The feds in D.C., along with the ACLU, said it would be a mistake. Hey this is a conservative state, based on Christian values...! Guess what..........We did it anyway.
We recently passed a law in the state to incarcerate all illegal immigrants, and ship them back to where they came from unless they want to get a green card and become an American citizen. They all scattered. Hope we didn't send any of them to your state. This was against the advice of the Federal Government, and the ACLU, they said it would be a mistake.
Guess what..........we did it anyway.
Yesterday we passed a law to include DNA samples from any and all illegals to the Oklahomadatabase for criminal investigative purposes. Pelosi said it was unconstitutional.
Guess what........We did it anyway.
Several weeks ago, we passed a law declaring Oklahoma as a Sovereign state, not under the Federal Government directives. That, for your information, makes Oklahoma and Texas the only states to do so. Guess what.........More states are likely to follow. Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, both Carolina's, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, West Virginia, just to name a few. Should Mississippi act, so will Florida. Save your confederate money, it appears the South is about to rise up once again.
The federal Government has made bold steps to take away our guns. Oklahoma, a week ago, passed a law confirming people in this state have the right to bear arms and transport them in their vehicles. I'm sure that was a set back for the Kennedys and Ms Pelosi.
Guess what..........We did it anyway.
By the way, Obama does not like any of this.
Guess what....who cares..we're doing it anyway.
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Great! Now you can bring back segregation! Better yet, slavery!!!
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This has nothing to do with segregation nor slavery. It is the way it should be and the Feds have no business running our lives.
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Aha.
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Segregation and slavery - racial issue
States rights - States Rights issue
Not seeing the parallel here
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Anyone familiar with the history of segregation knows that calls for "states rights" is nothing more than code for segregation. Southerners knew this when Ronald Reagan called for states rights when he ran for President in 1980. It was known as the "Southern Strategy". That year the head of the Ku Klux Klan said that the Republican Party platform "could have been written by a Klansman".
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I've heard the same thing said about Obama, but he was on the far side of the clansmen.
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u are so correct
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The Internet is a wonderful place, everyone, regardless of Race, Religion, National Origins and Political Affiliations can come together and discuss Air Guns ! None of knowing anything about the others, unless they either openly tell us, or post something that might give others a clue to the above.
I WILL again ask the members to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights..............
Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified (http://"constamrat.html#BoR) 12/15/1791. Note (http://"constnotes.html#Am10)
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
This states that ALL powers not given to the Federal Government by the Constitution, or Denied by the Constitution, Belong to the States and/or the People ! The States have Every Right not given to the Federal Government, and as they joined the United States of America, they can Separate or End this Agreement.
As for slavery and discrimination, every one of us that works for another, has agreed to a form of indentured servitude (part time slavery) or prostitution (pay as you go slavery). I don't know of any Lifetime Contracts today, but they still may exist somewhere, but not long ago, actors were signed to Lifetime Contracts with Studios, and in affect sold themselves into slavery.
Discrimination on the other hand, has and will exist forever, in the hearts and minds of People that can not or will not accept others, for one reason or the other, even it is because of the color of their hair or eyes.
Now, the States that are in question, Texas and Oklahoma, have decided to regain control of Their States from the control of the Federal Government, and how the Federal Government feels they shouldbe doing things, which The Federal Government has NO Constitutional Right to Control. The Fed.Gov has over the years encroached into these areas of the States Rights, by denying Fed. Aid if the States do not comply with their thoughts or wishes, most all the States comply to get the funds. But with all that is going on now, Many wonder the wisdom of the Fed. Gov.'s actions, encroaching on private companies and banksand spending. Nothing to do with slavery ! NOTHING AT ALL !
Bill
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Are you in favor of segregation?
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no i just think that we should not be ruled by the government
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Born and bred...
Fort Sill, Oklahoma, 1952
When men were men and sheep ran scared.
;)
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grackledown - 6/16/2009 12:29 AM Anyone familiar with the history of segregation knows that calls for "states rights" is nothing more than code for segregation. Southerners knew this when Ronald Reagan called for states rights when he ran for President in 1980. It was known as the "Southern Strategy". That year the head of the Ku Klux Klan said that the Republican Party platform "could have been written by a Klansman".
Sorry, but bull sheite...
I am familiar with history and States Rights might have been an issue when slavery was an issue. Indeed it might have been an issue when segregation was an issue but any jackalope that wants to tell me that "States Rights" when applied to this God forsaken tax and spend regime in Washington is really about the color of people's skin is either shallow minded or a liar.
Which is it with you, grackledown? Are you shallow minded because I know you are not a liar?
States Rights is a discussion about whether we are a Confederation or a Federalist Republic. It has absolutely nothing to do with the color of anyone's skin. Anyone who knows their history, knows that. So.. Go read the Federalist Papers. Go study that which you claim to understand. Once you actually understand the basic issues we can talk about whether it is right to say that because States Rights, once soiled by those who would abuse liberty, are STILL about the color of a man's skin.
The discussion is about whether the FED has the right to dictate to a state (whether the state is sovereign) or the FED is sovereign. Who runs things? The state or the federal government. The founders did not state clearly what they intended because they could not agree on that. The Civil War, being a war about sovereignty rather than a war about the color of people's skin, established that "States Rights" could not be exercised to take from any person the right of freedom. It did not establish that the sovereignty of the state was subordinate to the soverignty of the federation *BECAUSE* that can only be determined by contest (war).
You probably don't understand that but if you read it enough times over the next twenty years you may get it.
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grackledown - 6/16/2009 6:31 PM Are you in favor of segregation?
Your argument that a call for states rights is a call for segregation is a "red herring" argument. Nobody here has advocated any form of segregation, yet you seem to feel that you have a right to claim they did for no other reason than that they believe that states rights might be an issue in some of the other political decisions being made today. Do you do that because you feel like you are intellectually superior to the people who frequent this forum or do you do it because you feel that people who are not history buffs are just too ignorant and it is your job to educate them?
Notice how neatly the same tactic that you are using on this thread works when used against you? I assert that you believe something which may be unrelated to the topic at hand but is distasteful to both of us. I give you only one choice just as you give us only one choice either we are all bigots and racists or we understand that states rights are all about prejudice. You just gave us all a tough assed choice. Either we are bigots or we do not think states rights are important.
Let me ask you something, do you believe that "States Rights" are a threat to the current Administration? Do you think that if certain states decide that the Federal government has over stepped it's bounds and decide to tell Obama to FXCK OFF! that those states should be invaded because they must be bigots?
The only reason that I ask that question is because that is what you just implied... maybe you simply did not understand your own question?
but that is just ... me ... I should also say that if you had trouble following the logic this post, it was probably because you really did not spend enough time making the connections.
Let me sum it up for you concisely. Bigotry as an excuse in the United States of America, today, is a LAME ASSED EXCUSE. There are Mexican men and women smuggeling their own children across the border into this country every day and ten years from now those kids will be attending college and making something of themselves... not that I agree with illegal immigration ... but I recognize the difference between people who are willing to work for what they get and people who want to blame the system for what they don't have, DO YOU?
I do. So if you don't mind, please stop trying to blame the system for the failures of people who can not get off their own asses and work for what they want..
Just my two, but son, I've been around the block once or twice, as have a whole lot of men and women here who SERVED and only saw RED blood.
So consider getting over YOUR prejudice 'cause the rest of us are just sick of that childish sheit...
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To a leftie, states rights are a VERY scary issue. Most of the time they'll sweep it under a rug if possible, - something to be avoided. After all, with "states rights" in place - "BO and friends" can't turn the U.S. into a copy of western Europe, - a socialist heaven in their view. This issue is in the process of moving to a front burner, - and at some point will end up being decided by the Supreme Court. ... It's all about taxes, power and regulating people, - and personal freedom be damned.
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What exactly is it that you want? A theocracy? There are plenty of those in this world, but I woudn't want to live there. An end to Social Security, Medicare, public education? Pick your right wing Latin American dictatorship. The right of corporations to dump their toxic waste wherever they please, even if it's behind your kids school yard? Bush callls that "Voluntary Compliance".
There was an election last November. You lost. Get over it. For eight years this country was led by an ignorant, lazy, stupid adolescent, who was drunk till he was forty. And what has this wrought? Two open wars, a nuclear(or as Bush would say "nukula") North Korea, the worst economy since the Great Depression, and 47 million people with no health insurance (of course that can only be their fault, right?). This was a president who made decisions based on what he believes, not what he knows, because he knows nothing.
ENOUGH!
It seems that there are some people, particularly in the southern states that are fighting the Civil War all over again. You lost that too. Get over it. To those who would like to secede from the Union, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Love it, - another angry leftie, even when the manage to win one, they still have a problem. This country was founded with the intent of "less government" not a copy of the places, mostly European monarchies that they came from. If you have such a problem with individual rights & states rights, - YOU take a hike. This thing isn't over by a long shot, - many more years of this ahead. I'm remember seeing whining lefties all "gonna move away" after Bush won, - they didn't, but I wish the hell they had. There's nothing more innovative and cost effective than American enterprise setting their sights on delivering new products, ideas, solutions to everyday life - NOT some stupid government program, loaded down with more bureaucrats and regulations on top of regulations. The Dept. of Agriculture has almost as many employees as there are freakin' farmers!!! How could anyone have a problem with things like that???? ... The likes of Harry Reid, Pelosi, et al pontificating to us - screw 'em. Don't look now, try and enjoy yourself, - but there's a mid-term election coming up - and the party in power usually loses a few seats in those. BO's road show will (is about) hit a serious and well deserved detour.
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Perhaps if I pose the following question I might better understand where you folks are coming from. The question is simple. Should the issue of segregation have been left to the states? If the answer is no, then this discussion can continue. If it is yes, then there really isn't anything else to talk about. Yes or no.
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This thread isn't about segregation, - but if you want to start one, - don't know about the others, but it's fine with me. States rights involves/covers a huge number of issues, don't see segregation as one of them, - that seems to be your hang-up.
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That's right. States rights covers a huge number of issues. Segregation is one of them.
Yes or no?
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Read my answer again.
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Read my question again.
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Why does everything have to be about race? Why can't we all just get along?
The original post dealt with States rights. Do the rights of the individual states trump the rights of the Federal government?
What the states do with those rights is a different discussion.
For the record, I believe racial segregation is wrong.
I believe any form of racism is wrong. Including trying to find it in places where there isn't any.
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First of all, thank you. Second, you may want to read a little more about the history of segregation and the call for states rights. It isn't hard, just google "states rights segregation". And while you may believe that segregation is wrong there are many who do not. It took the federal government to step in and stop it. This proves that there are some issues that can not be left to the states. Exactly which issues are a matter for debate.
As far as there not being any racism here, it will take more people answering the question that I posed to settle that issue.
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gd, - no one doubts there are unpleasant individuals around - ie racists. There always have been and always will be. That's NOT what today's states rights movement is all about. Deep down I think you know that, - but enjoy using that smokescreen. No one questions the need for a Federal government - the (coming) debate is just how much the Feds should be involved. There are many outside of our cities that do NOT want to see us "changed" into a socialist state and will use any means to stop BO - and that debate/fight is just starting. When BO says he needs to do things in a hurry - he's right. Any delay - and his programs are pretty much toast, especially with a Congressional change after the mid-term elections.
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Food Shortage USA The Truth
HB Extract Debunking the Debunkers
In response to increasing federal encroachment, a growing number of states have passed and proposed resolutions to assert the Tenth Amendment and the Bill of Rights of the Constitution.
map
This map shows a growing number of states that have passed and propose resolutions to assert the Tenth Amendment and the Bill of Rights of the Constitution.
The Tenth Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights and was ratified on December 15, 1791. It states the Constitution’s principle of Federalism by providing that powers not granted to the national government nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states and to the people. It is based on an earlier provision of the Articles of Confederation: “Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.â€
On this resource page, you will find links to the various bills and proposed bills by the states, articles covering this important topic, and related videos.
Washington, New Hampshire, Arizona, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, California, and Georgia have all introduced bills and resolutions declaring sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment. Colorado, Hawaii, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Alaska, Kansas, Alabama, Nevada, Maine, and Illinois are considering such measures.
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No offense GD, but I think you are missing the point. If any segregation went on, I would say it would be more based on language than color. I know the USA isn’t perfect, but as a current member of the less than 5% minority in my current country, and probably closer to 1% in my place of residence, and as the only person of my color that I am likely to see on any given work week, I can promise you that the racism card is a little outdated in the USA. Are there racists in the US, yes, but until you have lived in the Far East for several years, and not on a Military Base, I question your tolerance level.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I highly doubt that the current run on states rights will be in any way related to segregation. The states want what was given to them, and are legislating it while they still can. Will states rights allow segregation? It’s possible, in some backwards town in the middle of nowhere. I know a town that in my lifetime had it’s first Melanin infused person come to their school, and the parents actually asked the ISD if people of their tint were allowed. Pardon the references, but I am just trying to break it all the way down. “Race†hits a note with me. I knew an American born and raced in Africa that doesn’t call herself African American, but I know of several who have never been near there or have family 6 generations back that do.
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For what it is worth, I believe that all races whether black brown green yellow or white should all have the same balance of opportunities. I do not believe the Feds had any business forcing the states to conform to there decisions on desegregation or segregation. Since all this mess has started I have seen people be handed jobs and opportunities that they did not qualify for just because of race. In my book that is not fair. So if you were yellow and were competing for a job with a white person and the state says the feds say to hire the yellow person even though they do not qualify for the job. It happens all the time since the feds stepped in. Not say that it was any fairer prior to the law but still a person no mater what color should be hired or given an opportunity for there merits and not there color. Just my opinion.
And another thing is I am 62 years old and do you think I am not discriminated against when I apply for a job...:) You betcha and have even been told that I was to old and could no fit in with the younger employees............ Even though I had more experience and qualified for the position offered.
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If this is true then you can sue them for being in violation of The Age Discrimination in Employment Act, a federal law.
Now then, do I understand you correctly? Are you saying that the issue of segregation should be left to the states? Or are you confusing desegregation with affirmative action?
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As a business owner I want the right to hire my employee's according to experience and merit. I do not want the state or feds to tell me how to run my business. All the desegregation, segregation and affimative action is a bunch of crap as far as I am concerned. We never had a problem until the liberals were tuned loose in the 60's.
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Was this a problem?
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You seem quite obsessed gd - must be a pill somewhere you can take. Love it, - a leftie living in the past, ....
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Is this a problem?
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Did you smile, Gene?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1JX07MCCL4
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Well I have been told I look llike Gene Hakman many times and I take that as a complement. Thank You
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Yeah Gene, - but Hackman doesn't have your money. ;)
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LOL John that is funny..:) I only wish I had his money..:)
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Grackledown you use the same tactics that many debaters use, If you have no points to debate the subject, change the subject. Change the topic, and pretend this is the topic.
This is very poor debating skills, and is a well known tactic !
Now as for segregation, people tend to move into an area where they feel comfortable, safe and secure. I have black families that are very happy here, and I would say 90% of the families are white here. Most of the non-whites here freely admit that they would never live in a black neighborhood ! When they opened low income housing near our development, guess who complained the loudest, and wanted equaldistrabution of whites and blacksin this low income community, the black families, they knew what would happen if these developments were occupied by all black residents, and it has. The property values fell over 25%, and the the crime rate in that section has increased 75% ! Things have calmed down do to increased police presence lately. And NO, none of the crimes were due to whites objecting to having black neighbors, or bothering then in any way ! Break ins, thefts and stolen cars and their contents, as well as property vandalism were the largest increase in crime, but then there was assaults, on families and children !
Now it seems that segregation does not work, and forcing poor mixed families to live in affluent communities, does not work !
I grew up working hard to escape the ghetto, two and three jobs at a time, until I made it to the top ! I believe there is nothing like knowing what can be achieved with hard work, to inspire others, both white and black, to work hard so that the can achieve their dream. When they are given freely, as with everyone, they want and expect MORE !
The liberal ideas to help other does not work ! And you will never see these ideas evolve in their neighborhoods ! And as the records report, liberals are the least to contribute to charity, they want YOU to pay for their GRAND IDEAS !
Now Grackledown, do you believe in HAND-OUTS ? FREE RIDES ? Do you give 10% or more to charities ? or are you just a Liberal ?
Bill
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The liberals ideas/policies etc. are actually intended to help them cope with their "white guilt" ... not really some grand scheme of things.
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I am for segregating those that are capitalists from those that are socialists. I don't have a problem with people wanting to be socialists, but they need to get together and go do it somewhere else.
Ever read about spider-man and the issue that never got printed? It was about a white man getting save from a black mugger by spiderman and the white guy says "all those ni**ers are the same". Then spider man picks him up and say "What color am I under this mask?"
Martin D. White