GTA
Politics and Religion => Politics And Religion Discussion => : triry September 02, 2009, 04:08:38 AM
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http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/sep/01/bn01guns-open-carry/?northcounty
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Open carry should be allowed with loaded guns anywhere in the USA based on the founding documents. It is sad that people have come to see the gun as only a tool evil and lawbreakers.
I am wish that where I live open pistol carry was allowed. In order to carry a pistol, I will have to get a concealed permit from the state.
Martin D. White
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Reaster and Woods said they felt that they needed protection because of their age, and that they needed to draw attention to the fact that personal freedom has eroded over the years.
having guns out in the open won't give you your personal freedom back.
i think open carry is unnecessary and causes tension. concealed maybe yes.
i'm curious...can you give me some first hand insight in states where you can carry a weapon, what happens in situations where alcohol is involved?
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Cops open carry. Does that cause "tension"?
What is the world does carrying a gun in the open have to do with drinking. Drunk people to stupid things...with and without guns....with and without cars....your line of argument heads suggests that because of drunk driving we ban anyone from driving?
Martin D. White
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MartinDWhite - 9/2/2009 7:04 PM
Cops open carry. Does that cause "tension"?
actually...yes. it does, everyone behaves a bit differently when cops are around.
What is the world does carrying a gun in the open have to do with drinking. Drunk people to stupid things...with and without guns....with and without cars....your line of argument heads suggests that because of drunk driving we ban anyone from driving?
Martin D. White
to me it seems guns are more dangerous than cars in a technical kind of sense. personally i'd rather try my odds in a street with a drunken driver than in a packed bar where two guys decide to fight.
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geiger - 9/3/2009 10:28 AM
MartinDWhite - 9/2/2009 7:04 PM
Cops open carry. Does that cause "tension"?
actually...yes. it does, everyone behaves a bit differently when cops are around.
So you are advocating the Cops shouldn't open carry guns, by the same logic that citizens (I realize that cops should be considered citizens) shouldn't open carry guns?
What is the world does carrying a gun in the open have to do with drinking. Drunk people to stupid things...with and without guns....with and without cars....your line of argument heads suggests that because of drunk driving we ban anyone from driving?
Martin D. White
to me it seems guns are more dangerous than cars in a technical kind of sense. personally i'd rather try my odds in a street with a drunken driver than in a packed bar where two guys decide to fight.
Are you serious? To break down (your seriously flawed comparison) a little further ----- drunk people do stupid things, so lets outlaw stuff for people who are responsible because of things drunk people do.
Martin D. White
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MartinDWhite - 9/3/2009 11:35 AM
So you are advocating the Cops shouldn't open carry guns, by the same logic that citizens (I realize that cops should be considered citizens) shouldn't open carry guns?
no. never said that. all i said that cops look intimidating, with loaded guns even more.
Are you serious? To break down (your seriously flawed comparison) a little further ----- drunk people do stupid things, so lets outlaw stuff for people who are responsible because of things drunk people do.
Martin D. White
personally i think not, but the reality is different. why then do we have speed limits. not all people drive fast, but we have restrictions despite this fact.
i think the general consensus is that guns are dangerous, more than most things in everyday life (altough i don't fully agree with this), cause their sole purpose is to kill and fairly easy to do so in close quarters. of course both tools in the hands of a responsible owner are harmless.
actually where i go out i'd be pretty nervous knowing people have guns.
but yes i agree that probably once everyone is accustomed to having guns everywhere it's not a big deal. i give you that.
arguing that my logic is flawed is another story. why then it's forbidden to drive a fully loaded tank trough a city. or having stinger missile. because even if you're not drunk you can cause some serious damage. with things that were meant to kill people you generally have to assume people are naturally dumb rather than naturally smart.
by your logic if someone accidentally discharged a tank shell into a building it wouldn't warrant a restriction.
the closer you come to everyday things the blurrier the line.
it doesn't just depend on alcohol. i'm also wondering how is it with people that are naturally aggressive (alcohol just makes it more potent). here if you get in a bar fight or if you're jealous about your girl dumping you for another, it's mostly confined to fist fights. i wouldn't like to imagine these situations if guns were involved. without guns it alot tougher to kill someone when in anger. i want to know how are these situations handled?
do they keep their guns holstered and fight with fists, do they pull out guns at each other,...?
if you ever been in a serious fight you'd know that thinking of the broader implications is alot harder under these circumstances.
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The sad thing is guns do not hurt people but people mis using them hurt other people. Guns are tools just as car is a tool. Cars cannot kill someone but a drunk driver can kill or hurt someone while using the tool.
Let's be honest. It is all about controlling the sheeple here. There are those who want to control, or alter our rightsrights because of those who abuse them. Criminals should not have rights and thus not be able to own a gun.
This stuff just drives me crazy..:)
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It's nuts really, - because of some nuts, mostly in large cities, - everyone else in the country should be denied a right, which it is.
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I think responsible citizens should be allowed to own tanks, rpgs, machine guns, rockets, what ever is available and that they can afford. There are plenty of laws in place to punish those that shoot a building with an rpg, or drive over a car with a tank, or destroy the road by driving on it with a tank. It is not the thing that shoot the building, destroyed the car, or destroyed the road, it is the PERSON. The person should be held responsible.
To ban everything that can be used for evil it to ban EVERYTHING. I can kill with my fists, are you going to cut off my hands?
The naturally aggressive point....bullies (in my experience as a nerd) almost always back down when they lose the force advantage. Those that do not will be held responsible for their actions and go to jail or die.
Martin D. White
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even responsible persons make mistakes. making a mistake with a rpg or grenade can have some serious consequences. someone making a mistake with a knife would end up in him being cut or worst stabbed. screwing up with an rpg could easily lead to tens or more dead.
you see, we have to draw a line somewhere.
also by your logic people could have stashes of weapons grade anthrax at home. let's see how many would be able to properly store it. i bet alot of them would have it just for kicks..."because they can" and stuff.
some things have a higher killing efficiency than others. that's why a gun is more dangerous than a wooden stick. that's why it was invented in the first place..the gun i mean, well also the stick for that matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0 what if the guy was presenting a grenade instead of a pistol. i bet it would *_*_*_*_*_* off a lot of parents.
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WoW Mike,
You take the most extreme situation on every conservative issue, and I intend to keep my I.C.B.M. Nuclear Rocket in case I need to protect myself from a rouge nation !
Everyone has the freedom or right to carry a firearm to protect and defend themselves and their families ! Now if you don't feel that you have the intestinal fortitude to kill someone with negative intentions to you or your family, I guess that you can PRAY that the police will happen by before you and yours are killed ! I for one will do the duty of protecting me and mine ! Personnel defence if a duty of every living being, and should never be given to someone else, that does not have a legal obligation to protect any individual citizen !
Buddy, when your out in that big bad world, you better be capable and prepared to take care of any business that comes along. Otherwise I suggest that you purchase a portable hole, so that you can place your head into it if danger raises it's ugly head ! I doubt that will help much, but that is all you have !
Those that have them should use them, those that do not should buy a pair ! Or rent security that can ! And hope that they will protect you, I know that I will not protect anyone unwilling to protect themselves !
Bill
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Cops should only intimidating when you do something bad. If you are behaving you should have nothing to fear.
Firemen can be intimidating! If I saw one running at me with a fire ax I would be scared! Especially if he's aggressivly swinging that ax!
Agressive driving can kill too!
Perhaps we need to regulate aggressiveness? That seems to be the root of the problem. Not guns, cars, alcohol, or whatever. Take away one kind of tool and the perps will find another type of tool. Aggression is the issue and that's something that can't be controlled.
An aggressive thug is intimidating. A piece of pipe in the hands of a thug will kill just as quick as a bullet. Decent people need to be able to protect themselves from aggressors.
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Mistakes MUST punished the same as intentional acts! People MUST be held responsible! The current age of "not-my-fault" MUST end or we all lose this great game called society.
As for the idiot in the video....he is an idiot. what if, what if, what if.....what if he were smart and knew how to handle a gun.
Martin D. White
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Big_Bill - 9/4/2009 9:28 AM
WoW Mike,
You take the most extreme situation on every conservative issue, and I intend to keep my I.C.B.M. Nuclear Rocket in case I need to protect myself from a rouge nation !
Everyone has the freedom or right to carry a firearm to protect and defend themselves and their families ! Now if you don't feel that you have the intestinal fortitude to kill someone with negative intentions to you or your family, I guess that you can PRAY that the police will happen by before you and yours are killed ! I for one will do the duty of protecting me and mine ! Personnel defence if a duty of every living being, and should never be given to someone else, that does not have a legal obligation to protect any individual citizen !
Buddy, when your out in that big bad world, you better be capable and prepared to take care of any business that comes along. Otherwise I suggest that you purchase a portable hole, so that you can place your head into it if danger raises it's ugly head ! I doubt that will help much, but that is all you have !
Those that have them should use them, those that do not should buy a pair ! Or rent security that can ! And hope that they will protect you, I know that I will not protect anyone unwilling to protect themselves !
Bill
i'm not arguing against firearm ownership. i was just replying to martin who said my logic is flawed, that's why i used extreme examples to make my point.
like i've said...i take people as naturally dumb when it comes to dangerous things, not the other way around.
when shooting with my pals with my airgun, except a few selected individuals who i trust, most people don't have any respect for guns...they see it just as another fun thingy to mess around. that's why i'm extra careful with these types.
i'm just saying keep them concealed. but you're right on one thing, i probably couldn't kill a person unless the situation is pretty dire.
airgunandy - 9/4/2009 9:40 AM
Cops should only intimidating when you do something bad. If you are behaving you should have nothing to fear.
Firemen can be intimidating! If I saw one running at me with a fire ax I would be scared! Especially if he's aggressivly swinging that ax!
Agressive driving can kill too!
Perhaps we need to regulate aggressiveness? That seems to be the root of the problem. Not guns, cars, alcohol, or whatever. Take away one kind of tool and the perps will find another type of tool. Aggression is the issue and that's something that can't be controlled.
An aggressive thug is intimidating. A piece of pipe in the hands of a thug will kill just as quick as a bullet. Decent people need to be able to protect themselves from aggressors.
very true. i think you have to admit the "fear" culture in the US (talking in general). media loves reporting violence. i think michael moore despite being a *_*_*_*_*_* got this point right.
so you'd probably have to start with that to solve your problems.
MartinDWhite - 9/4/2009 9:48 AM
Mistakes MUST punished the same as intentional acts! People MUST be held responsible! The current age of "not-my-fault" MUST end or we all lose this great game called society.
As for the idiot in the video....he is an idiot. what if, what if, what if.....what if he were smart and knew how to handle a gun.
Martin D. White
true, but i'd still rather have an accident with a pistol rather than a RPG.
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I firmly agree with the freedom to carry - be it openly or concealed. I think, however that in this day and age, where the general population sees a gun toting citizen as a possibly dangerous nut, it is asking for trouble. Parents herding their children into stores, security guards following you around, cameras saving your pics and descriptions, your photos being hung on the security office walls, etc isn't going to help our causes with the lawmakers. All it takes is to have someone in wealth and power be freaked out by seeing the gun toting nuts to raise hell and get laws passed - again, endangering our freedoms. Remember we're all guilty until proven innocent!! I run a flight school and dealing with the TSA's "interest in general aviation safety" has made my life and all those I work with absolute hell. We're all terrorists until we can prove otherwise (and get expensed out of business)- but that's a different story altogether..
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Working in the security end of things Bodiej I have to agree with you. Anyone using "open carry" WILL get attention, - and justifiability so. While it might be legal in some areas/states - it does send a message. You WANT to make a statement and need/get attention - there are far better ways to accomplish that. You WILL end up on "candid camera" - without any question, and the local police WILL be called. There are VERY strong legal/financial ramifications if "something" goes wrong.
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Now that's NOT to say I don't agree with private ownership or concealed carry, - I do, 110%. In fact I have a license to carry - and have had for decades. Have been an NRA member for longer than I can remember, and donate probably more than often enough.
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that video was a trip! Everyone in that room was affected for the rest of their lives.. I especially liked the bit at the end with the dad carrying his daughter out. He probably brought her there to show her that firearms are not evil or dangerous as long as proper care and responsibility is taken... He waved that gun around with the magazine in and the slide closed.. Wasn't it a glock? Isn't that a pretty heavy DAO trigger pull? Was his finger actually inside the trigger guard in front of all those people? Then he carries on in pain telling everyone how accidents can happen to anyone!!?? I don't see that as an accident. The officer didn't show the audience the responsible task of clearing the firearm to make sure it wasn't loaded.. Above that, which responsible officer was in charge of bringing the lot of guns to the classroom with the magazines in and the chambers closed.. I'm glad he shot himself in the leg instead of that bullet going into anyone in front of him while he was waving it around, or out the window or into the next classroom. I hope he at least learned something from the ordeal (probably just how to fill out unemployment papers)..
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=414_1249322308
i'm still wondering how the hell these things happen. forget to put the safety on?
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Lots of cops are carrying glocks now a days and glocks only have internal safeties. ie once a round is chambered, all you have to do is squeeze the trigger and it goes bang.
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Guns don't kill, Irresposible idiot people kill! The same goes for cars! I wonder how many of the anti-gun people that want to prevent us from carrying guns smoke cigarettes (and don't care if the person next to don't smoke& light up anyway), statistcally more people have died from illness caused by cigarettes then those that died in the last four major wars! Guess what, they ain't banning cigarettes,,,hmmm I wonder why!
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antigun people r more dangerous then people that carry them cause we know the do,s and donts .theydont they will shot u just for being suspicious. they carry guns also antigun people dont believe for a second that there house doesnt have a gun of some sort ...