GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => China Gate => : thebookdoc September 07, 2009, 07:37:39 AM
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I just bought a few scopes probably without getting deep enough into what was required. I want AO, likely a sidewheel, 4-16 or so, large lens, and something that will withstand springer recoil. I got a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42, a Sightron SII 3-12x42, a Leupold VX-1 3-9x40 and a Millett 4-16x56...but never checked the recoil ratings (well, first because I never saw any recoil ratings and also because I figured anything like that would only be an issue with a cheaper scope).
So what do you use? What do you prefer? What would you use if you could afford it?
I mostly shoot chinese springers.
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Bushnell Banner AO 40mm 3-12 on the B40 .177. This scope is the Cherry of what I have I love it! Just fits with medium height Accushot mount. The Leapers below are very nice, but not as super-nice nor as spendy!
Leapers 3-9x32 AO on Beeman R9 .177 Medium Accushot one piece.
Leapers 3-9x32 AO on .22 B26 Medium Accushot one piece.
Leapers Bug Buster AO 3-9x32 on Beeman R7 2 Piece Accushot high mounts. Not ideal but still works great. This weekend this rifle was the go-to for shots to 50 yards.
AO (Adjustable Objective) I think is a super critical feature on any scope on an airgun. You can range find with it, you can focus up close shots and the one feature you really should have on a scope on an airgun! Without AO, you are usually set-up for much longer distance shots. 30 yards and more.
Hope this helps!
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Man the scopes you have... Belong on Elk, Mule deer and Coyote rifles, not Springers! Safe those cherries for your center-fire stuff!
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I'm not sure why springers need to have hand-me-down scopes. I want the best scope I can get for my rifles...and not to appologize because they are springers.
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Well, you need a springer rated scope because even medium springers will tear up a centerfire-only scope. This has been proven over and over with expense and sadness, because of the double-recoil plus torque thing going on in a springer. You can't tell a .308 shooter this, but airgunners know.
At the lower end, the Centerpoint AO series is a form of Leapers that has held up well on many high powered springers. I have the 4-16x and it has moved across several spring rifles with no problem.
I have never actually had a Leapers branded scope. I have a Tasco Golden Antler on a B26 that I like with no problems to report, but I know they can choke on more powerful spring rifles.
I thought my BSAs were a little better than the Centerpoint, and they are also springer rated and also AO.
I became a Hawke fan, because it is a lot of springer-rated scope for the money. I love the 30mm Eclipse SF and have several AirMax scopes. They are my best airgun scopes, but not the best available. I still think they are a great value for dollar choice and I enjoy dealing with them. They are real people who stand behind what they sell.
I also don't have a Bushnell yet. I am working my way up the dollar and value ladder here, but there are many spring-gunners who swear by the upper end Bushnells. I don't think they have as good a reputation for warranty replacement as Hawke, and I find the Bushnellmodel line up confusing. The higher end scopes that are springer rated are reputed to be verygood. I think it goes Sportsman-Banner-Trophy-Legend-Elite but they don't seem very clear about what is springer, and what is not.
Same problem with Burris. Here we have high priced scopes with good reputations that almost totally ignore airguns in their rating system. They seem to equate "airgun" with "rimfire", but they do have AO scopes. For that kind of money I would like to know what I'm getting.
The only Nikon (Monarch) I had was a disaster on the mildest powder burners. To be fair, it was early in their gun line in the US, and they did replace it. I would not put one on a high powered springer but they may have changed. I hope so. Try finding any mention of air guns on the Nikon site.
Then there is Leupold. I have one really great Leupold on a .270 but have not seen fit to make that investment on an airgun yet. The Leupold EFR series is as good as many FT champs need but I just don't need one that badly. Theyseem to bethe best of the big brand scopes without getting into 4 figures, and brands commonly found in jewelry stores (Swarovski, Zeiss).
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The issue with scopes for springers is very valid. Years back there were no ratings on scope that would hold up to low, medium and hight recoil springers. Since the introduction of the magnum springers the scope manufacturers have had to up there specs on scopes. I to want the very best glass and overall scope qualities as possible. But I do not own any magnum springers any longer. I started off with Simmons Pro Air Scopes made specifically for up to medium recoil springers. Then I went to Leapers 5th gen for my magnums. Then I went to buying BSA scopes for springers which have held up very well but lack the quality of a scope with good glass. At this time I am replacing most of my springer scopes with Hawk Heavy recoii scopes which weigh less than 16 oz at 44 objective. The glass is very clear and great for the distance I shoot. 25 to 50 yards. I also am replacing my Bushnell scopes that I have on my PCP's with Simmons White Tail scopes which have extremly clear glass.
But as I have always said. Scopes are a personal preference. Everyone has different eye sight and different distances they shoot.
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8) All my spingers have Leapers scopes on them. From BUG BUSTERS to 4-16x50, 3-9x44..30mm tube,3-12x44..30mm tube. So far no issues. That 3-9x44 is on a MM tuned B28. The recoil is so hard the scope mounting rail came loose. After I fixed that, I now have about 400 rounds thru and no problems with the rail or scope. Leapers stand by their products. They are affordable......LOL (cheap)...and like I said they stand by their products. CHINAGUNNER
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Other than the few remaining cheap scopes that came with the "packages", all my after-market scopes are Bushnell Banners for the springers; 3X9-40mm IR, 3X9-40mm, two 4X12-40mm AO and one Barska 3X12-50mm on the Gamo Viper. The Barska is the only one I worry about....pretty sure it's not airgun rated.
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Listed below are all of my AG's with their respected scopes. I amvery content with the Leapers Brand scope. Their price and warrentee are my two main reasons for using Leapers. I had for scopes that had warrentee issues, two Leapers, one Centerpoint (subsidary of Leapers) and one Bushnell. Leapers immediately sent me a new scopeonce they received the defective one back, as well as Centerpoint. Bushnell required thirty eight days to respond after they receivedmy defective scope. They called it a examination period.LOL(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif)My shooting range is primarly 10 meters to 40 meters. The Leapers scope 4-16X50 AO/IR fit the bill quite well. They are excellent for closeup and distant shooting with clear glass. I am a frugal individual, I will not spend my money. I paid Seventy eight dollars delivered for my Leapers scope 4-16X50 AO/IRand one hundred and thirty five for my Bushnell Banner scope. My next scope will be a Leapers, mainly price and warrantee is how I will decide, and of course their quality is at its best......Bill(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif)
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where do you get your leapers for that price delivered?
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I have only 1 quality scope And its not quality to you guy's standard.
I have a 3-9x32 Tasco Golden Antler Scope on my Gamo Big cat. It was 40 dollars. It is Air gun rated. Its held up through 2k pellets through it so far with no problem at all. I'm surprised because the recoil seemed harsh but its held up fine. I'm really pleased with it.
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Cheaper than Dirt $71.97 plus postage of $6.60 to my zip.......Bill(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif)
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Leapers 3-9X44 AO/IR. I did a lot of research and read a lot of posts on this forum. It seemed to get good reviews and had a lot of features for the money. I thought it was a bit much for an air gun at first myself but I am completely satisfied with it. My Gamo Whisper ate up the stock scope but this one has held up so far. Leapers also has a lifetime guarantee.
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:D Hey Chris nothing wrong with the TASCO GOLDEN ANTLER. They are really good scopes, I know alot of people who have them. I say they are just as good as the leapers 3-9x32, maybe a touch better. CHINAGUNNER
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There have been a few failure stories on the Golden Antler but mostly on higher powered springers. I have nothing bad to say about mine. It has been on a RWS34 Panther, briefly on an MP513 (lucky it was brief), and is really a perfect fit on the B26 now. They are a nice size and weight and plenty clear enough. Very good buy for the $$ in my experience.
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interesting no one has mentioned the air-rifle-specific scopes I was considering...
Hawke Air Max 4-12X40
Nikko Sterling Gold Crown AirKing 4-12x42
Swift 6.5-20x44mm High Recoil Scope 686M
A bit more expensive, but if I can't see it I can't hit it.
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I did mention the AirMax, and I have at least 3 of them (oh, dear, I've forgotten exactly). They are highly recommended for springer use. Again, not the top-drawer bestest if money is no object... but in most of our cases, it is. The Air Max is a great scope for spring powered airguns. It is one of the few quality scopes targeted at the airgun market and is very well supported. They were the sweet spot of cost for performance in my little ramble above.
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Have you seen http://www.legacysports.com. Check out the Nikko Sterling Nighteaters.
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thebookdoc - 9/7/2009 12:37 PM
I just bought a few scopes probably without getting deep enough into what was required. I want AO, likely a sidewheel, 4-16 or so, large lens, and something that will withstand springer recoil. I got a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42, a Sightron SII 3-12x42, a Leupold VX-1 3-9x40 and a Millett 4-16x56...but never checked the recoil ratings (well, first because I never saw any recoil ratings and also because I figured anything like that would only be an issue with a cheaper scope).
So what do you use? What do you prefer? What would you use if you could afford it?
I mostly shoot chinese springers.
Swift 685M http://www.opticsplanet.net/swift-3-9x40mm-high-recoil-scope-685m.html
Swift 685M http://www.opticsplanet.net/swift-6-5-20x44mm-high-recoil-scope-686m.html
Bullet Proof!
Info: http://www.straightshooters.com/navagationpages/scopeselections.html
D R
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Daveshoot, sorry, you did. There are a lot of names in your last post and I think Airmax didn't stick with me then where it would now. Glad you like them as it sorta encourages me in that direction. I could pay more, but I consider myself psychologically on a budget. I have a hard time picking a scope that will cost as much as the rifle...its like when you buy a camera body and have to put a lens on it. You can buy lenses that are more than the camera, and in that case it may make a huge difference. I don't need to count the hairs on a fly, but I do want to be sure he's there before I pull the trigger.
Certainly Hawke is under serious consideration.
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I didn't see that rated for springer use anywhere. The Nikko Sterling I mention is supposed to be specifically airgun rated. Do you have one on a springer?
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Leapers 3-9x32mm AO gathers light better than my naked eye for $40 a few years back
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Download the pdf catalog and look on pg.71. The Nighteaters that have AG in the part number come with a large side wheel.
They come with a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser.
I don't have one on an airgun but I'm thinking of putting one on a .22LR.
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Just to update this...I decided to swap out to be sure all the scopes I had were springer rated. I also need AO, and prefer SF but decided that was the least of my worries. Here is what I ended up with:
Bushnell Trophy 6-18x40 AO (736184) ($177!)
Sightron SII 4-16 AO ($313!)
Swift 6.5-20x44 AO 686m High Recoil ($190!)
Hawke 4-12X40 Air MaxMAP 6 ($155 w/rings!)
Pretty happy with all these and the prices. I'll have a Leapers UTG 4-16x50 as a backup. Now I just have to get rid of these:
Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 AO SF (bought new, mounted and removed)
Sightron SII 3-12x42 (bought used, never mounted)
Leupold VX-I 3-9x40 (bought new, never mounted)
...and a few cheaper scopes. Interesting learning experience.
Back to selling those and concentrating on the custom rifle!
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I read this on the site: "Nikko Stirling rifle scopes are rated for use on airguns." I would bet that isn't all of them, but would think the AG means something. Those look pretty awesome...They are a bit pricey! But then almost any side-wheel scope is around $300.
Let me know if you get one and how it performs!
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try the bsa scopes or leapers they re made for springers
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I have a BSA and a Leapers. The BSA seems to get grainy in lower light. The leapers has some weird locking turrets. I don't think they are bad scopes, I just like these others a good bit more -- and guess I should for the price difference.
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bookdoc, that is some good comparison info and it is nice to see the follow-up on how some of these worked out for you.
Not counting the Sightron, how would you say the other 3 (sub-$200) stacked up for you? Ever compare side by side in lower light conditions?
Which was the overall best?
Which was the best value for the $$$?
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Daveshoot,
I was planning to do a real side-by-side comparison before I get rid of all the ones I am not keeping. I'll be using one scope as the comparison and hope to get accurate light measurements as well as the following:
Manufacturer:
Model:
Airgun Rated?: Y/N
Zoom range:
Reticle:
Turret type:
Click val:
Special features:
---
Zoom Feel:
AO feel:
Turret feel:
Parallax on zoom:
Brightness:
---
View impressions:
If I'd had some of this info before shopping I'd have saved myself some trouble. I hope this will provide some sort of concrete means of comparison, but it will be useful for me as a reference as well.
Right now I like the Swift a LOT. That is not really a slight to the other scopes. I know you said "beside the sightron", but I like that best of all. I think I'll find some interesting things in the side-by-side comparison -- and I think right now my perception may be a little skewed as I haven't had them all out in similar conditions. For springer shooters some things are just not obvious. Like Nikon's min focus on the Monarch 4-16x42 AO is 50 yards! pretty useless for plinking. As nice as the scope is (absolutely love the reticle), I'm finding it a new home. I like the Hawke's reticle, and think those are a good value. But getting them all out in the same conditions will tell a lot. Some time this weekend I hope!
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Yep, and that would be a fine service to your fellow springer shooters for sure.
I think a lot of guys with decent guns will go over a 100, but maybe not over $200, for decent glass on a spring gun. You have 3 of the nicer springer rated scopes in that price range, and I haven't tried the Trophy or the Swift. All 3 of them get talked up a lot by springer people. I am very happy with the Hawke but maybe I don't know what I'm missing for another $30 or $40.
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I have a little affliction with a photography bug and write books about photo-correction, so seeing through good glass might bother me more than most. I was toying around with the Swift just before and while I think it has some really interesting low-light characteristics as it was brighter than by naked eye, but it also seemed sort-a soft-focus and I was noticing some pretty heavy green chromatic aberration. That's made me a lot more curious about making the comparisons as I hadn't thought to look for photographic qualities like that before.
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I have a Walther 4x12x50 AO/IR which you chaps are more likely to find labeled as an RWS.
It's on top of a B26 with Accushot 2 piece high mounts & the kind of thing you guys will pick up for about $110
Unusually for the UK, I picked it up for £50 (which at current exchange rates is about $80)
Must have got in at the right moment as they're now a little less easily available & prices have gone up to UK£90 ($144 US)
It's only unusual in that we generally get stung in the UK & more often pay in £ what you pay in $.LOL
Any way, the point of the post is that, it's a reasonable utility scope, on a bit of a budget but absolutely rock solid & decent quality.
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Daveshoot,
I did some preliminary reviewing today and sorta surprised myself a little. Right at this moment, by comparison side-by-side, I'd have to say that Hawke is the best value so far. The only scopes I have not made part of the comparison yet are the Bushnell Trophy, Sightron SII AO, and Bushnell Banner 8-16. I think the Sightron is a better scope over-all, but it is also at least twice the price of the Hawke. I like the view on the Leupold I have the best of all of these, but without AO it isn't as useful as it might be. One surprise I had was that the swift had some pretty strong chromatic aberration. I'll have to be making a query to Swift about that and if maybe it warrants a repair...Leapers are clear enough, but I'm a little disappointed at some of the other features.
Frankly, I think the Hawke holds its own against the Nikon (?!). The Nikon looks slicker. However, they were built for very different things and it is almost unfair to play them against one another at the distances I am looking (10-40 yards). If I were hunting long-range, my perspective would probably change quickly.
I don't think after looking side-by-side that I'd hesitate to get another Hawke. If cash didn't matter at all, Leupold looks really nice, but I'd need to get an AO that is a LOT more expensive, and I hear they are not the same now. The model I have is slightly older.
It is curious how the comparison is changing my view of things and honing down to what really matters.
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I got a BSA 3-9x50 GE IR scope on my B-21. It's meant to be used on "traditional rifles", but it seems to be holding up on my springer pretty well. If not then I'll look into a Leapers or a Center-Point, I still have to do some rigorous testing as well....as I wait for my package from PA to come in some time this week. I need those darn compensators already! =]
Happy shooting,
-Jarred
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I wanted a high powered side focusing scope but I didnt want to spend a fortune. So I did some searching and took a gamble. I ended up with an A-1 Optics 6-24X50 Illuminated. I emailed about springer rated and the guy said no problem for those itty bitty air guns??? LOL I put it on my RWS 52!!! I have a standard one piece scope mnt (no problem with droop) and the thing hasnt budged and has held up for well over a 1000 rounds.
The scope was about $100. The elevation and range focusing work great and it is holding up big time. Many silo pigeons at 60 yds.
Check it out
Bugshot