GTA
PCP - HPA - C02 Gate => PCP DarkSiders Forum => : Zzyzx October 13, 2009, 10:15:48 AM
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Have some heavy industrial tanks with Nitrogen. This stuff isn't explosive like Oxygen and it does make up a good part of the air we breathe.
If I get a regulator to fill a PCP will Nitrogen work OK? The tank is heavy, industrial use for nitrogen burst chemical agitation, filled to about 6,000 lbs pressure, and an adapter
for filling a rifle should be an easy one. Any downside to using this stuff?
I could even use it to fill a carbon fibre tank for field use as hauling around a 200 pound tank isn't too easy.
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No down side...other than getting a fill adaptor rated for 6K.
Nitrogen is "dry": compared to air, can't oxidize metal, and will give (pressure for pressure) the same perfomance as air.
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Theres no probs with it....
None of ny PCPs have ever been filled with air..
I use Argon from a 11cu/m industrical welding bottle..
way better for the gun in the long run..
This is the system I made up....
top pc...can be used on both scuba tank & gas bottle..
bottom pic...Gas bottle only...
Pete
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Pete
You need to find yourself a micro bore hose. They are rated to 10,000 PSI and you only lose the gas that is in 1" of your 1/4" hose. I was very suprised after I got mine.
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How is the cost of Argon compared to Nitrogen? I know nothing about it. Sounds as if it works well. Any info on this is appreciated.
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Cost..FREE.....I bring home a full argon bottle from work use it down till
2700psi then take it back & bring another full one home....Well thats what
I intend to do....A 11 cubic metre bottle gives about 300 top ups not had to
swap one yet......
Als69GT.....The amount I lose in the venting process dosen't matter.....Its FREE
And the HYD line was free aswell...had the hyd guy make it up when he was at work plumping
up a machine we made....So a fish processing company donated it to me....LOL
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So Kiwi, for those of us who will be refilling and don't have it free from the jobs in the future is there any real benefit or difference between Nitrogen and Argon? Is one better than the other? Any downside to using these instead of compressed air?
What kind of tank to transfer it into for field refills? Safety is the #1 concern and then performance of the rifle.
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Guess I'll go ahead and jump in here now. I've been filling my PCP's with nitrogen since I went to the Dark Side. Too lazy to pump, and because I live 5 miles past the middle of nowhere, scuba tanks were a major hassle, and expensive. I rent a 4500 psi tank from a local welding/industrial gas supplier. Made up my own fill station, this is what it looks like:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x226/daved20319/Multi-Fill.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x226/daved20319/?action=view¤t=Multi-Fill.jpg)
Tank rental is $85/yr., gas runs about $60. A tank lasts me at least 6 mo. Tank specs are 443 cu. ft. @ 4500 psi. Haven't actually checked, but I'm pretty sure that argon would be more expensive than nitrogen. Also, I could get plain compressed air from the same source, it would also be more expensive, since it would be rated for breathing air. No downside to using nitrogen performance wise, and in fact, it's actually a plus. Since there's no oxygen in it, there's no corrosion to gun parts or oxidizing of seals. And although I don't have any proof, it just feels like my guns shoot better.
The filling station I made up has a foster fitting on the end of the fill line, I swap out fill fittings as needed. One of those fittings is an SCBA fitting, so I can fill my 44 cu. ft. carbon fiber tank. Even with a fresh cylinder, I never actually get a full fill, but it's good enough for me.
You're right, safety is important, but the most important safety device is the one between your ears. I don't use a regulator on my system, I throttle my fill valve and watch the fill gauge. So no distractions allowed when I'm filling! Unfortunately, I shoot alone almost all the time, so that's not a problem :-(. And everything in my system is rated for at least 5000 psi. Don't know if it's possible to do the same with a 6K psi tank or not. Depending on what rifle you have, you might be able to buy a spare tank for it, so that might be another option. Hope that helps, if you have any more questions, you know where to find the answers :-). Later.
Dave
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Back on this one about using Nitrogen gas in PCP rifles.
Is there any way the Nitrogen can react with or do harm to rubber and synthetic seals used in these rifles?
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Doubt it would harm seals since it's used in tires and also to keep radio transmission lines under pressure to keep moisture out. Tires are rubber and transmission lines have rubber and synthetic seals and internal components.
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
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Zzyzx - 10/17/2009 12:30 AM
So Kiwi, for those of us who will be refilling and don't have it free from the jobs in the future is there any real benefit or difference between Nitrogen and Argon? Is one better than the other? Any downside to using these instead of compressed air?
What kind of tank to transfer it into for field refills? Safety is the #1 concern and then performance of the rifle.
With Argon I lose a bit of power/FPS as Argon is
heavyer than air or Nitrogen....
Nitrogen will NOT harm your guns seals or any other part
The air you are breathing right now is 79% nitrogen
Pete
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This has me thinking about switching over to nitrogen.,
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Potentially it depends on the question; are any of the parts involved with the gas system made out of titanium?
For those of us who have had to endure company mandatory fire extinguisher training the slide that is displayed stating that in order to have combustion you must have "fuel + energy + oxygen" just aint quite true, (and you can make $ off of this in a side bet with the instructor)
Titanium is the only (AFAIK) substance that will burn in a PURE nitrogen environment, (read: no oxygen present)
so while this is a potentially unsafe activity I can make no statement whether it is at all likely to occur with titanium parts present. But for many, I suspect, you heard it here first.
A link for your continued reading pleasure
http://www.webelements.com/titanium/
Best regards,
doc