GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Airgun Gate => : KK0605 October 25, 2009, 01:42:53 PM
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Seems to me that of the .22 springers under $300.00, the best ones are wood. I love the look of a wood gun, but for hunting you need a light, durable gun that can be banged around and still preform as good as ever. So, I know that most of Gamo's line are synthetic (I personally am not crazy about Gamo, but I am open), but other companies seem to like wood better. Now, if the gun is light (under #7) than I'll take wood also. Today I hefted Cabelas' Deluxe springer, (all 10# of it) and realized "This won't be fun lugging around all day
So, to help me out, could you list either a light, durable wood springer, or the best synthetic one around the price range of $300? .22 cal. of course.
This gun has to have the power to hunt small game humanly and accurately while still being light and durable.
Thank You!
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Well, I know you said you don't particularly like Gamos, but if you want light it's worth considering one because you could get it completely de-Gamo-ified, er, tuned (some of the internals replaced and a new trigger) and stick in the price range. The Whisper's pretty darned light at 5.28 lbs, and the CFX is pretty decent at 6.6 lbs.
You could also get something a Diana 34 Panther, it's a bit heavier, 7.75 pounds, but very nice. And once again you could get it tuned and stay in your price range. You could also save even more money and get a Ruger Blackhawk (tuned of course), as I think that's the current 34P clone. A Diana Panther 350 is heavier yet, 8.2 lbs, but also a nice platform.
I think Beeman has an AR1000 based synthetic stocked rifle or two; the GH1050 comes to mind. (The TF89 uses the AR1000 powerplant). Of course, I can almost guarantee that they're overpriced.
I guess this depends partly on at what point you consider a gun too heavy.. Why not browse Pyramyd Air's website for and check the weights of the guns that catch your eye?
Oh, and btw, you might want to edit your post or turn emoticons off so it says " (like under #8) " instead of a sunglasses smiley. Took me a moment to figure out what you were trying to say there lol. (Not trying to be nit-picky).
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Well, as you know, I love the TF89. But I do want a hard hitting light gun. The Panther does not seem to have the power I want. (A broken in, tuned one on American Airgunner got a highest of 700fps) As far as Gamo goes, de-Gamo-tized, what model would you reccomend?Then, GRTIII first, Gene tune second, then what?
If I didn't make this clear I would like the most powerfull (if fps in the right grain (none of this 4.5g crap) means power to you) while still accurate springer (preferably synthetic) around $400.
I have felt a #10 gun, and that is HEAVY! So, 5-6 (if that is even possible) would be best, but 7-8 is more realistic.
And onemountain, you seem to have all the answers.... LOL Thanks as always! And that emoticon is odd at first glance!
EDIT: I think mid-800 on up for fps would be the kind of power I would want for hunting.
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First off, credit where credit's due: I don't have all the answers. A lot, if not most, of what I say is stuff I've learned at GTA, not firsthand. The people at GTA collectively have the answers. I've just read through the forums a LOT and try to answer a question from what I remember. You should give your thanks to the GTA family, as should I. So basically I just try to give a condensed version of what I've learned from others, but then inevitably screw it up and write some horribly verbose essay of a post (see below for an example lol):
A quick note on the tuned 34's: when you see one that's shooting around 700 fps in .22 that generally means it's been tuned using Maccari parts, which drop the power significantly in the '34. A 34 tuned with stock parts (which is still a pretty darn nice gun!) will be doing upper 700's, generally around 17-18 fpe. Maccari parts drop it to around 15 fpe.
Well, mid 850ish+ fps in .22 with a mid weight pellet really narrow the field down. That kind of power means the supermagnum springers, and you're going to be hard pressed to find a light one simply by virtue of the large powerplant. Not to mention a light supermagnum is going to mean even worse recoil issues than usual. So I think we're pretty much talking 8 lbs bare minimum.
The supermagnum springers that I can think of right now are the Webley Patriot/Beeman Kodiak, the Theoben Elminator/Beeman Crow Magnum, Walther Falcon Hunter/Talon Magnum, Diana 350 family and clones, Gamo 1250 Hurricane, derivatives, and clones, and possibly the Beeman RX series/HW90.
Right off the bat your price constraints eliminate the Webley Patriot/Beeman Kodiak, Theoben Elminator/Beeman Crow Magnum, and the Beeman RX series/HW90; even if you could find one of those used it would still probably be too pricey.
The Gamo 1250/Hunter Extreme/etc are too pricey new. But you might be able to find a used one in your price range. The Benjamin Super Streak is apparently (?) a clone or semi-clone of the 1250 powerplant, and does fall in your price range (off the top of my head about $250-260 at Airguns of Arizona, much more at Pyramyd). The plus of the 1250 family and Benji SS is that they're very powerful, can get nearly 30 fpe in some cases. The downside is that the Benjamin Super Streak is gaining somewhat of an unfavorable reputation for quality control and longevity, but you might be hard pressed to find someone to tune them. And from what I hear parts support for them is poor to nonexistent. But Ed (aka shadow) has an old Brit-made 1250 that he loves. The Gamo Hunter Extreme is listed at 9 lbs, while the Benjamin Super Streak is listed at 8.5 lbs.
The Walthers are also very powerful (26-27 fpe in .22 if I recall correctly), but have had some quality control issues with the internals and the stocks breaking. Gene won't tune them anymore. But some seem better than others, and if you're willing to do a home tune it sounds like they can be made into serviceable guns. The price is ok on them though, especially a used one. The Falcon Hunter is listed at 8.25 lbs as is the Talon Magnum.
The Diana 350 family and clone (B28A) are probably the most popular of the 3 sets of guns in your price range. They're not quite as powerful as the Walthers and the Gamo 1250/Extreme/Benji SS, generally coming out around 24 fpe. But that power level does meet your velocity requirement (24 fpe will push a 14.3 gr CP at 870 fps). Of the three sets of guns they're probably also the ones least in need of a tune out of the box, but people do say the difference is still dramatic. The Diana 350 magnum is listed at 8.5 lbs, the 350 Panther at 8.2 lbs, and the 350 Feuerkraft at 8.0 lbs. My B28A weighs in at 8.5 lbs. The parts support for the 350 family is going to be the best and with it the best and widest availability of tuning.
Of course, all the above are going to be fairly hard to shoot because of the recoil, with the Walthers and Gamo 1250s worse than the 350 family due to the increased power. They're all fairly long guns too, and as noted, none of them are terribly light.
Okay, I feel dirty for saying this, but here it is: there is a way to get a gun that weighs 5-6 lbs and has decent power in .22. Well, you have to be willing to take a slight power drop to around 22 fpe (not exactly a weakling number though!), but you also get way less recoil. It's the Benjamin Discovery. Yep, a PCP. The Dark Side. Frankly, if weight's your first concern, then it blows the springers out of the water. And it should be easier to get good groups with too. Just throwing it out there.
I will note with some dismay that only one of the rifle I mentioned above has a synthetic stock, the Diana 350 Panther. You were right, the good guns tend to be wood. But if you want to you could take the route some people have, and spray the stock down with truck bedliner to give it some protection from weather and minor dings and marks, and also generally a better grip.
Personally, I'd go with something in the 350 family. Also personally, I see two ideal routes within that option:
1) get a B28A and send it off for a full tune, and maybe chop the barrel back and slap on a brake for cocking leverage. An all out tune with Maccari parts would result in a very nice shooting gun, but probably at the cost of a little power, maybe 2 fpe (would result in a CP with a muzzle speed of around 830 fps). Yeah, I know, the power loss doesn't seem very palatable, but I've never heard of anyone who wants to put the stock spring back in the gun following a tune.
2) Get a Diana 350 Feuerkraft Pro Compact and home tune it, keeping the stock internals. This should result in a pretty nice shooting gun, not quite so nice as one with the spring etc replaced, but one keeping full power. It has the added advantage of being shorter, reducing the lock time and helping the balance in spite of the weight (8.5 lbs).
The above is all just my opinions though, and you know what they say about those(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif) And I'm probably biased toward the 350 family because I have a B28.(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-embarassed.gif)
By the, feel to call me Eric
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nt
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Well, the darkside has attracted me, but I'm not quite sure.
1st. The Disco is in the price range. But I have read that it is LOUD. Eric, you have one don't you? What does it compare to sound wise?
2. There are Disco clones now. That (plus a Benji Pump) might be an option.
3. Is the only difference between the Feuerkraft and the magnum size? Or is there a power difference also?
4. You said the CFX was only 6 #. Sounded good, it got an average of 803 fps in Dave's review. But the pellets were size 4.5, and got an fpe of 12.
5. For now, I won't get this gun tuned, (unless the gun is cheap enough to be tuned also under $300
6. The TF89 is around 8 pounds anyway, so that still might be my best bet.
7. As far as recoil goes, how so these gun compare to rimfires? Gene said that the Walther Talon packed a mean punch. Like a shotgun punch? I don't know.
8. Changed first post to Under $300
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KK0605 - 10/26/2009 9:31 AM Well, the darkside has attracted me, but I'm not quite sure. 1st. The Disco is in the price range. But I have read that it is LOUD. Eric, you have one don't you? What does it compare to sound wise? 2. There are Disco clones now. That (plus a Benji Pump) might be an option. 3. Is the only difference between the Feuerkraft and the magnum size? Or is there a power difference also? 4. You said the CFX was only 6 #. Sounded good, it got an average of 803 fps in Dave's review. But the pellets were size 4.5, and got an fpe of 12. 5. For now, I won't get this gun tuned, (unless the gun is cheap enough to be tuned also under $300 6. The TF89 is around 8 pounds anyway, so that still might be my best bet. 7. As far as recoil goes, how so these gun compare to rimfires? Gene said that the Walther Talon packed a mean punch. Like a shotgun punch? I don't know. 8. Changed first post to Under $300
1) Sorry, I don't have a Disco; the Dark Side hasn't claimed me yet. Unless there's a deal I'm unaware of (quite possible with my very limited knowledge of PCPs) I'm not sure that the Disco fits in your new $300 range, at least not if you plan on getting a pump. But if you have another air source, then it might be worth it. And speaking of Disco's, AoA has one in their used section right now for $195 in EX condition. But please don't go on what I have to say about the Disco or any other PCP, I'm probably not a reliable source of PCP information.
2) I didn't know there's a Disco clone out, which rifle is it? I don't know my PCP clones worth a darn. I have also heard that the Disco is pretty loud, but all I can offer to that end is hearsay.
3)The 350 Magnum, 350 Feuerkraft, 350 Feuerkraft Pro, and 350 Panther all have the same powerplant. Here's a rundown on them, using AoA's numbers:
350 Magnum: the original 350. Fuller figured stock with Monte Carlo comb with raised cheekrest, but not symmetrical, so it favors right-handed people. Stock is checkered along grip and forend, and has "350 Magnum" pressed into top of checkering on right side of forend. Has regular iron sights, rear notch + post globe in front. Weighs 8.5 lbs. Is 48" long w/ 19.5" inch barrel. The B28 is a clone of this model.
350 Feuerkraft: Slimmer stock that extends a little further, concealing cocking arm. No checkering. Has straight comb with no cheekrest and is ambidextrous. Has fiberoptic sights, rear notch and from post/bead. All the ones I've seen pics of have the front sight exposed, not a good idea with a fragile fiberoptic sight. The 34 Panther had the same problem initially and Diana corrected, so they may have since corrected the Feuerkraft too. The feuerkraft weighs 8.0 lbs, and Diana somehow found a way to make it even longer the 350 Mag at 48.375" with a 19.625" barrel.
The Feuerkraft Pro Compact is a Feuerkraft with a shorter barrel and muzzlebrake on it with no sights. Weighs 8.5 lbs (because of the brake) and is 44.625" long with a 15.75" barrel. From what I hear they balance pretty nicely despite having that brake out on the end of the barrel.
350 Panther: synthetic stock with textured panels where the checkering is on the 350 Magnum. Has a monte carlo comb with an abidextrous cheekrest. Has fiberoptic sights, but the front does have a globe. Weighs 8.2 lbs with a 19.25" barrel and is 48" long.
Unfortunately with your $300 cap only the Feuerkraft is within reach (if you're buying new), I've occasionally seen it on sale for about $300. You could get them used for less of course. This may be just as well, since Dianas have gotten somewhat of a reputation for randomly coming from the factory pretty dry; there's a fair chance you'd need to get it tuned or at least open it up yourself and give it a lube tune. But that may have improved somewhat, haven't heard too many complaints to that effect lately.
4) Yep, the CFX is pretty darned light. And yep, it's pretty darned out of your power range. It was just an exampled of a light Gamo gun with a synthetic stock. BTW, a rule of thumb for estimating .22 power from a .177 stat is to add 20%; so a 12 fpe CFX in .177 would, in theory, be somewhere around 14.4 fpe in .22.
5) With the $300 cap you're probably only going to be able to get a clone tuned. Worth looking into though. My B28 is off for a tune right now.
6) The TF89 doesn't quite have the power you asked for, but as I said in the thread you started awhile back it's not like it's lacking in power. I don't know that 850+ fps is really all that necessary in .22 with a mid-weight pellet if people are hunting with B26's that are hard pressed to make 700 fps. If you're willing to back down on the power to around 17 or 18 fpe I'd look into a Ruger Blackawk, it's a 34 clone with a synthetic stock, sounds like they're turning out pretty nice. Or you could get an actualy Diana 34 Panther and get it lube tuned with the stock internals to keep the power up (and not drop like the rifle you mentioned earlier).
7) I'm the wrong person to ask about recoil comparisons. I'm not really a rimfire person, and I've never shot a Talon Magnum. I can say that it's worth bearing in mind that a tune will help with recoil.
I guess if you want power, look into a TF89 or B28 and getting them tuned to some degree. If you want the synthetic stock I recommend a Diana 34 or its clone. And I don't really know enough about the Disco to be for or against it, I was just throwing it out there since it matches some of your criteria.
I'm sorry if this post isn't quite as informative as lucid as you'd like; I'm operating on about 2 hours of sleep in the last 48 hours.
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KK0605 - 10/26/2009 9:31 AM
7. As far as recoil goes, how so these gun compare to rimfires?
I have never shot an airgun that recoiled enough to matter. My 350 has some recoil but certainly not like any powder burners. I have heard some people compare the 350 to a 30-30 on another forum. Poppycock. BTW I shoot both powder burners and air rifles every week.
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Eric: From what I have read (I don't remember where), Tech Force makes a clone of the Disco. It is cheaper, but doesn't have a pump. PCPs just haven't appealed to me as much yet. What, with either pumping every 30 shots, or buying a tank, it just makes springers look better (IMO). For power, a TF89 has plenty for me. For squirrels and such, that is a good gun. Was just hoping to find a lighter, more durable gun. Also, truck bed liner? Will that make it water proof? Cause, that it a good idea. I read that on here somewhere... I'll have to look it up.
BTW, you have been VERY informative. Thank you.
James: A 30-30? From a 350? You are right, that just doesn't sound right. I would think that a .22 air gun would recoil same or less than a .22 rimfire. Thanks for that info.
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I'm pretty sure he was saying that the claims comparing the 350 to a .30-30 are not credible.
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Oops. I knew he said that, but I worded it wrong in my post. Thanks.
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What about this.... I get a TF89 with a damaged stock, (like richard/thebookdoc) and get a synthetic stock for it? That would make it quite a bit lighter wouldn't it? I'd just have to find someone to make me one....
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KK0605
Using your original critera, I'll give you my two cents based on the guns I have and the ones I have shot.
If you like wood, light weight, low cost and a .22cal, the Crosman Quest 800 is hard to beat. The price on them has been very steady at $115.00 for a few years now. It has a wood stock that I think is one of the most ergonomic that I have come across and is light weight. I have a leapers 3-9x40 scope on mine and it weighs in at maybe 7lbs. In addition to myself I have two friends that have bought the Quest 800 and none of us have had any issues with our guns. They all seem to shoot accurately right out of the box. The only down side that I could see for you with a Quest is that it is a chinese clone of a Gamo 440. If you can get past the Gamo part, then here are some more advantages to the Quest 800. As I said you are only out $115.00 as your initial investment. That includes a fixed X4 power scope. For another $30.00 bucks you buy yourself one of Charlies GRTIII triggers and install it. Installing a GRTIII alone will bring a noticable increase in your accuracy. After that if you get it tuned or tune it yourself, you will still have spent less than your original ceiling on $300.00. After tuning mine myself, it shoots 14.5gr RWS superdomes at about 700 fps for 15.4 fpe. It will shoot a 1" group at 50 yards. I have taken crows, rabbits, skunks and raccoons with mine.
With regards to getting a springer that will shoot 800+ fps that is also lightweight I think you are out of luck. I have two Gamo 1250's and a Walther Falcon Hunter and let me tell you they are all beasty guns to lug around in the field. My feeling is that if you want light weight and over 800fps then you are going to have to go to the dark side and more than likely a Disco or clone of a Disco to stay in your price range of under $300.00.
Hope this helps
Mc
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Thanks Mike. I was looking at the Gamo 1250 Hurricane. Is it the same as the hunter extreme? or are they different? pyramyd air has the 1250 labeled as discontinued.
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The Extreme is the same gun as the 1250 except with a different barrel. An advantage that the 1250 / Extreme has over Walther Falcon Hunter is that it is easier to tune and it will take GRTIII trigger if you so choose. The trigger on the Falcon Hunter is a nightmare. Just ask Gene.
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Excuse me, but there is a rifle that fits these criteria for well under $300, and that is the Baikal MP513.
It is wood stocked, very lightweight, quite accurate, and very powerful. If you can find a .22 in stock anywhere, it will kill the heck out of anything the other brands will, at a savings of 1.5-3 lbs. and about $140.
It was this combination of features that led me to it in the first place, emphasis on the weight, for a field "carry piece".
The downsides are a utilitarian finish, non-adjustable trigger, and harsh shot cycle. I foundtheriflewell worthwhile ($160) and the trigger smoothed with use.
My .02.
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The 1250 Hunter is the older version of the Extreme but the actions are the same. The 1250 Hunter is what I have, English version called the Royal. There's some great advise mentioned above but if your looking for Magnum power in a .22 springer it's gonna come with some heft. My big 1250.22 does have some weight including the big BSA scope on her but I have gotten use to hauling her around and cocking her is great exercise at 58lbs cocking force. Another thing to think about is what you'll be hunting with your shooter, small game like nutters, bird's etc.. My 1250 is mainly used for larger game like Bandit's, Country Rat's, G-hog's and if the my hunting luck hold's out I can bag a Yote or Fox this winter. You don't need a Magnum for small critters, a good accurate non magnum .22 would do just fine for them. Ed
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Exactly MB, - I have a Quest 800X with a GRT-III trigger and a Turbo-Tune by Gene. Great wood stock, - and one damn nice gun to shoot, very accurate - a pleasure to own. I would recommend one to anyone looking for a .22 springer.
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Oh lord do I feel dumb. How could I forget the MP513? And I've forgotten about it in a number of recent threads too(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cry.gif)
I came really close to buying one in .22, and when I was trying to decide I think I literally found and read every reference to it on the GTA using the search function; I must've read vinceb's reviews 4 times each. Thank you Dave for reminding us of its existence..
And IIRC, it comes with some parts too, right? And doesn't EAA have good parts support anyway too? Though I also seem to recall it someone saying that it's a pain to reassemble if taken down for a tune.
KK, the MP513 is listed at Pyramyd as being 6.94 lbs.
And holy cow!! $239 now?! And an estimated in-stock date of 11/30, and we all know how PA tends to sneakily push back in-stock dates.
It looks like it's still $160 at Compasseco, but .177 only over there. I don't see it in .22 anywhere, and it seems like not a lot of people are carrying it at all anymore(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif)
forgetting stuff like this is why I say I'm unreliable lol
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What is the difference between the Quest 1000x and the 800x? Also, in Vinceb's review of the MP 513, ( http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5795&posts=8#M43389 ) he said that the TF89 would be better overall. And I would love to nail coons and such. That is why I liked the 1250. But weight is still plaguing me.
So far, my TF89 still seems to be good. Middle weight, good power, and with either a new stock or truck bed liner, (anyone know much about that) it could be durable.
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The Quest 1000 is the .177, the 800 is the .22. The ones with 'X' tacked on the end are ones that come with scopes.
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OK thanks. So MP 513 or TF89....... Light and harsh or heavier and smooth..... I like sythetic though..... but that is an odd sci-fi sorta gun....... but it is super accurate.....
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K.K., I've lost track: what airguns do you currently own (if any)?
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I don't think I saw mentioned the Shadow 1000 in .22. For a break barrel, they are nice guns and can be easily tuned. Still come on the market from time to time for about half of your $300 price. Leaves enough for a scope and mounts.
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I don't! See, in my first ever thread ( Best BAM (now Chinese) Gun for my needs) I admitted that it will be my second ( I have had a Airmaster 77.... Not the best gun to get you in love with airguns) air gun. I have hunted small game with every thing from .22 to .410. to a bow. I also hunt big game with a bow, but that isn't important. I have read a ton, so I do know enough to get started. At Pyramyd, the MP 513 .22 is $240. TF89 is only $150. So, if Vinceb thinks that the TF89 will be better overall, then the TF89 seems like the perfect gun. But, not having used one, I still need help.
Hope that helped
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Okay, unorthodox but why not just buy a B25 with 3-9x40 scope for $140 from bestairgun.com and a $8 can of bedliner. Scuff paint and there you are. Still lightweight but not a hollow sound amplifier like lots of syn stocks. The bedliner will help with the waterproofing but more so to hide any future dings. If you get a few shoot some more bedliner.
The b25 in .22 is more than enough for hunting.
My 2 cents...
Andy Wong aka larspawn
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I have seen the B25. It is another option. The bedliner sounds like a good idea.
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Or for that matter the B25S, same price, synthetic stock (assuming it's not one of the noise/vibration amplifying ones)
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So, after some reading, whatever gun I happen to get I am going to bed liner it. So, now that looks arn't a problem, and it will be water proof, its all about performance. I can get a better deal on whatever gun if it has a damaged stock anyway. Though, the TF89 does look great.... The MP 513 would look better black (IMO) so it would work also.
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I wasn't questioning your ability to hunt or shoot or learn anything like that(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif); I just literally have lost track of who has what. I got confused when you said "my TF89" at some point. Now that I think about it I've actually gotten about 9 hours sleep over three nights; I'm just not so lucid as I should be, that's all.
I can't believe the MP513 is that high over at PA, at one point the thing was about $130! I guess the dollar really is pretty weak right now..
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Oh sorry. Didn't mean to sound... well.... mean! lol Ya, I thought that $230 is quite a bit more.
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KK0605 - 10/26/2009 6:11 PM So, after some reading, whatever gun I happen to get I am going to bed liner it. So, now that looks arn't a problem, and it will be water proof, its all about performance. I can get a better deal on whatever gun if it has a damaged stock anyway. Though, the TF89 does look great.... The MP 513 would look better black (IMO) so it would work also.
Are you still wanting 20+ fpe as part of "performance?"
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Not necessarily. I guess a good Q would be : How much Fpe is required to kill small game? How many FPE is required to kill medium (coon possum) sized game? I have read that country rat (possum) skulls are very thick. So that would be something to know...
I hunt in thick Ponderosa/arizona pines, so accuracy is very important. But pines are never super thick; they are HUGE! And we hunt Aberts/Kaibab squirrel a lot. They run. They don't climb immediately like greys do. So, distance/power is also important. There is just a lot of little factors that I just can't seem to match with each gun....
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Please help us out here, if you could be so kind:
KK0605 - 10/26/2009 6:52 PM Not necessarily. I guess a good Q would be : How much Fpe is required to kill small game? How many FPE is required to kill medium (coon possum) sized game? I have read that country rat (possum) skulls are very thick. So that would be something to know... I hunt in thick Ponderosa/arizona pines, so accuracy is very important. But pines are never super thick; they are HUGE! And we hunt Aberts/Kaibab squirrel a lot. They run. They don't climb immediately like greys do. So, distance/power is also important. There is just a lot of little factors that I just can't seem to match with each gun....
Those are questions I don't feel that I can answer. Thus the title of this post (http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif)
EDIT: Harry gently suggested (thanks for taking it easy on me) that the proper forum for a hunting discussion is probably the Hunting Gate, not here. Sounds about right to me in hindsight. It was a mistake on my part to ask for responses over here in the Airgun Gate. If people could respond over in the Hunting Great instead that'd be great. Here's the link:
Thread: I've decided to call in the experts (http://"thread-view.asp?tid=22189&mid=176288#M176288)
hope I don't get in trouble (http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)
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KK, what's the biggest game you see yourself taking? Raccoon-ish?
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KK, if no one has welcomed you to the family, then welcome. All of the post here have been very good. All good guns to consider. My two cents would be to get a Crosman .22 NPSS they go for 299.00 at Pyramyd. You can read my review under the product review section. My rifle at least has worked out very well for me. It's lite weight ,It has a good trigger, looks good and comes with a fine scope and hits hard. Benjamin Discovery .22 pellets chrony at 788 FPS and a FPE at 19.7. Beeman FTS double gold pellets chrony at 794.7 with a FPE of 20.5, JSB Predators chrony at 745 with a PFE of 20. Crosman has very good customer service. The fist NPSS had stock peeling problems, but this has been addressed. From what you fist asked, this rifle fits within your parameters. Good luck on your search.
Regards,
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or even a custom pistol or carbine there are plenty of folks here picking off nutters with pistols look at mr jake in the hunting forum he been on a killing spree with his 1377 pistol and i know for a fact it has power if u want a light gun try some of the chinese goods too but like mr shadow said if ur hunting bigger game might want to get a bigger basher.
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The Largest i would think of taking would be a coon. Anything larger is for my rimfires.
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if u want a light wieght killer its nothing lighter than a pistol but u wont have the power like a rifle and synth is the way to go but if your hunting big game with a light gun look at the fpe rating if ur hunting birds and nutters go pistol a 1377/or a rws diana/800 mag or go chinese my blackhawk has some wieght and i think its a tad heavier than my 89 whatever you do good luck and its plenty of advise here but if you do go pistol 1377??use domed pellets trust me.
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thats a question for mr shadow he is the king hunter here.a coon?that ex out a pistol that ruger might be a option sportsmanguide.com 99 big ones or pick up a refurb g1 extreme or phantom at airgundepot.com i think 89 big ones.
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Found this link that pindog posted on another thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maTIQ3o-DsA Good review video. There arn't many reviews on the TF89, so I was glad I found this link. Thanks Pindog!
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thats my buddy rick he has a website called http://www.airgunweb.com go check out hammering hanks review on the techforce 89 makes u wonder thats why i bought one the actually call this gun a legend.
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It all depends on the distance, but for medium-sized game like raccoon & possum (Groundhogs, etc.) you need to make sure the pellet hits the critter down range with minimum of 8fpe on impact. 10fpe preferrably for a very quick kill with a shot to the brain. Got a possum 40min. ago with the 350 .22, but it got hit with 17fpe on impact (19-20yds) so it was a "no brainer", get it? :) You have to know your gun's power down range and your pellet's ballistics to accurately estimate the power. If you have a 14-15fpe gun, you can take medium-sized small game inside 25yds as a general rule of thumb.
For smaller game like squirrel, rabbit, crow, etc. about 5fpe on impact does the job with a well placed shot.
We can talk about it in the hunting gate. Not sure this is the place..
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What's 'super accurate'?
I think a lot of times we get to comparing apples and clams if you know what I mean...you can eat either one but it just isn't the same experience.
I just got my second TF89 along side a RWS350 that arrived same day. I wanted to see what all the hype was about on Euro-guns. I'll be damned if the two guns don't feel nearly the same, sound the same, and but for the difference in the safety are pretty much the same. Well, beside the fact the RWS350 costs 3Xs as much. $240 buys a LOT of pellets. I'll be doing some better testing this weekend. My guess: it doesn't really get a whole heck of a lot better than a TF89 until you get to about 5 times the cost.
The TF89 is $134 at compasseco if you wait for a 10% off sale. I got mine for $119 by requesting a damaged stock as I was just going to replace it anyway. I'm still looking for the damage.
I just don't see how you go wrong with the TF89.
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My TF89 shoots right at 20FPE, maybe a hair under. Is the 513 that powerful? I was under the impression it was not.
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I think that the TF89, while still a little heavier than I like, is a winner. From its looks, to is power and accuracy, it will be able to kill squirrel and coon within a good distance. And, the TF89 sems like a hot topic right now. Thanks you all for the answers.
:D
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You should see the frightening holes this thing is tearing into my pellet traps (6"x6"x6" balsa cubes). I'd swear it is hitting harder than the RWS350 -- but I'll be sure after this weekend.
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Awesome! You are going to chrony both and do accuracy tests this weekend right?
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Chrony and accuracy, yes...maybe even some hold issues (bench rest vs. hand held). I own both, so I don't care which wins...but even if it is close (like I think it will be) the TF89 comes out miles ahead on cost...
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Yes, the price is great. And stats should be nice also.
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Sorry, but I have no home internet connection since my move, and it has really cut into my GTA time. I havegot to solve that issue but for now, it might be just as well, because I have one heckuva lot of projects to complete around the new home.
I believe I got my MP513 .22 from these guys:http://personalsecurityzone.com/cgi-win/order/prodlist.exe/PSZ/?Template=ProdDetail.htm&ProductID=20622 (http://personalsecurityzone.com/cgi-win/order/prodlist.exe/PSZ/?Template=ProdDetail.htm&ProductID=20622)
I don't see the .22 now, but for the price, you might want to contact them about it.
From memory the MP513 was averaging 767 fps with CPHPs, of about 14.3 grain or so. Neither the most powerful gun in the world nor the lightest, but a very nice compromise between the two, IMO. It is one of my top two go-to springers for pests, and was one of the first two out of the safe after the move (and the other was the RWS94/Cometa).
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There's some really good shooters mentioned here and are capable of dropping Bandit's with shot placement and pellet selection. My 1250.22 is my only Magnum shooter, my CFX.22, ShadowSport.22, Beeman GH950.22, TAC1.22 and B26.177 have all taken Bandits and Country Rat's. I find a accurate mid power shooter and push myself for shot placement. Ed
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For anyone looking at this thread, I decided to get the TF89.
Thank you all and thank you GTA!
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Congrats. I think it's a great decision!