GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Gamo Gate => : Mebits November 16, 2009, 05:48:45 AM
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I mentioned my "flyer" problem just below and how I suspect dieseling or some other pellet problem.
I'm looking at those flyers and often I'm seeing a very irregular hole in the paper, like the pellet hit it sideways. Is this telling me something?
M
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IN MY CASE I HAD A GAMO HUNTER EXTREME THAT FIRE PELLEST SIDEWAYS WHEN I USED THE LIGHT WEIGHT PELLETS. TRY TO USE A LITTLE HEAVIER PELLETS DO NOT USE THE LIGHT WEIGHT, MAYBE YOUR RIFLE IS TO STRONG FOR THOSE PELLETS.
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Could be the paper your targets are on.
Old targets that gotten damp, then dry can produce irregular holes.
And the cheap computer paper I use to print out targets will not produce consistant holes ... even with wad cutters. About one in three holes tears out sideways like the pellet keyholed it.
What about the holes of all the good shots? Any of those look ragged like the flyer holes ??? If only your flyers are producing ragged holes, yeah, I'd suspect pellet tumble too.
Try shooting into a block of modeling clay, or backing up the paper targets with a couple of layers of thick cardboard to reduce any tendency to tear. See what the holes look like then.
Paul.
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Paul,
I see some tearing, on computer paper, but I'm always shooting over cardboard. The reason I mention it was because the two in the b/e are pretty round, but the flyer is a "keyhole" (now I understand that term!).
Also, it seems like the gun is louder now.
Could I be going supersonic with CPHP's???
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If the the holes are irregular in shape, then more than likely you are seeing the signs of "keyholing (sp?)" The pellet is hitting the target at an angle. This is usually caused by a pellet that is unstable in flight. If a pellet is fired too fast (usually supersonic, caused by a dieseling shot) and it slows, it often tumbles. Or if the barrel crown is really bad it can launch the pellet with enough yaw and wobble that it will key hole when it hits. Try heavier pellets to see if that slows them down. I didn't see your original post, so I don't know what pellet and rifle you are shooting. Wadcutter pellets should cut nice round holes in the target, even if it's a single sheet of copier paper. Domes and points, while the hole will not be as clean, should be round in shape, not oval or elongated. Try different pellets and see if the problem persists.
Nathan
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Big Cat, Nathan. There's some horsepower, though I though that the CPHP's were heavy enough to slow me down enough.
So, I'm suspecting dieseling. I'm on about pellet 900 but the gun sounds loud and sort jumpy in my hand sometimes.
I've just put in my new trigger, but it was sending those flyers before from time to time.
It seems to have gotten worse (though with other issues like a lose scope and form problems I can't be confident) since the first tin of pellets.
Is it possible that I've got some over-lubed pellets?
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Mark,
"............So, I'm suspecting dieseling. I'm on about pellet 900 but the gun sounds loud and sort jumpy in my hand sometimes.
I've just put in my new trigger, but it was sending those flyers before from time to time. .............."
Sounds familar.
When I put in the gas ram, being it was a relativly new gun, I didn't bother to pull the piston out and check the seal while the gun was open. Once I got the scope mount issues delt with, it would group well for a few shots, but was still throwing about every third, or fourth shot. After over a hunded pellets since the gas ram install, it was still smoking a bit. Some shots more than others. Groups were coming out tending toward vertical stringing, so I suspected differances in velocity.
I started reading up on here about seal problems with Gamos. The more I read, the more it sounded like the seal was leaking. I ordered some new seals and when I opened it up, sure enough, the seal had a couple of chunks missing.
New seal is in and no more flyers, ...... except those I cause. :D
Paul.
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Question,
Were you throwing your fliers high or low?
To me, it sounded like the gun was louder when I got the flier.
M
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Mostly high.
Being a 22 Whisper - with a new gas ram that changed the gun's sound - I couldn't notice a change in shot sound so much as it smoked, and I could feel a slight differance, but I was more focused on watching and calling my shots (habbit from target shooting days), not realy intent on listening, or feeling for increased recoil.
At first I thought the smoke was just burning off any excess lube from moving the piston around inside the reciever.
Didn't think to see if there was a connection between how much smoke and how much flyer.
Paul.
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Seals are cheap, sounds like. Where do you get them?
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Got the seals and a lube kit from J. Maccari here,
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/page/page/251327.htm
Paul.
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It dose happen.....Mine was a crown issue
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Peter,
With the bad crown, did it tumble all the pellets at a certain range, or was it random?
Reason I ask, is that I've never had a rifle with crown problems, so I've no idea what the groups would look like. In your pic it looks like all, or at least five of six tumbled - is that right ?
I would think that only throwing one ot two out of an otherwise decent group would have to be caused by something about the gun that has become variable. Since even a bad crown is still fixed and not variable, can it shoot groups and then an occational flyer ????
Paul.
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Experiment with different weight pellets....dome ones are best....abit heavier also....to see if you still get flyers that keyhole on you. For me.....if a brand/type of pellet that's no good, they usually give me a shotgun pattern.....not keyholes. For keyholes I would think it would be a crown issue. Btw, the Big Cat will always be loud.....my BC is still the loudest after over 4700 shots!!!!!.....not backyard friendly at all.
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I know it's loud, but it seems louder on this tin. Intermittently louder. I'm new to springers, but my suspicion is that Crossman may have lubed these with something petroleum based. Is that possible?
I really need to shoot a bunch of paper with my wife watching and listening to see if we have a pattern.
Of course, I could just wash some of the pellets and test them vs. unwashed...
BTW, is this science or shooting? And, why am I compelled to do this for shooting sparrows, starlings and pigeon at <70'? :LOL: :D
M
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Bad piston seal with lube getting in front possibly or I would be looking at the crown for lil burs etc. Ed
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Just curious to add to my "why-did-it-do- that" check list.
I've been down the "bad seal" road, and seen what that can do to groups, but I've never had a gun with crown problems.
Has anyone had a gun with a bad crown that will repeatedly shoot two-three shots into a nice tight group, then throw a flyer a couple inches away at about 10-15 yards ????
Did only fixing the crown solve the problem ????
Paul.
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Interesting...This is preliminary as I've just not had time to do a full test, but I pulled out an OLD box of Daisy wadcutters. "SuperMatch" "QuickSilver". They seem quite light.
I shot a few at 10 yards. 3 just about in the same hold (about 1.5" above b/e) and one 3/4" low clearly due to my rushing the shot. Interesting...
So, I just tried 6 more at 20 yards, and put 2 almost touching (again well above b/e), and three touching 3/8" to the left and the 6th was way high. I may have rushed htat one and been welding my cheek too hard, though. I'm going to run another 20 pellet test on a clean target, taking my time and letting the wind die down. I'll advise.
If my theory is correct (and we should know in a while when I have some time), I'm thinking that I need to wash my CPHP's in a bit of Dawn and maybe lube them with endust or similar(?) thereafter. Thoughts?
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Yup..when I chop my Air rifles barrel and re-crowned it I have to fine tune it else it's like shotgun. I do Q-tip check and no snag but have to follow up with magnifying lens to ensure burr free polished crown.
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Yup..when I chop my Air rifles barrel and re-crowned it I have to fine tune it else it's like shotgun. I do Q-tip check and no snag but have to follow up with magnifying lens to ensure burr free polished crown. Also don't forget the breech lock up. If it's got side play it changes position every time you shoot it.