GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Crosman-Benjamin Gate => : CharlieDaTuna February 05, 2010, 02:50:28 PM
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It really does take quite a bit to light me up and as almost every one knows, I have never been impressed with the gas ram systems that have been installed in guns or the replacement rams that are available or even most of the factory guns…..that is until now.
One of our members sent me his Crosman NPSS to check out and do some testing on. The first thing that I did was popped the box, cocked the gun, stuffed a pellet into the shoot chute stuck it out the back door and pulled the trigger.
Now I’m not one to say “wow†but “WOWâ€. I couldn’t believe how well it shot, from the cocking cycle all the way through the firing cycle. I have shot quite a few gas ram guns with various gas ram systems but none of them felt this good. 8)
The cocking stroke is smooth as silk and not as hard as I would have expected based on other rams that I have shot and when the sear locked in place it was very solid. When you pull the trigger and send the piston home, all you feel is a thud and when it reached home, the shock was far less than I expected and what I have found in other guns with a ram engine in the past. This is a totally stock gun, nothing done to it. This system should not be hard on scopes at all, and not a scope eater like most gas rams have proven to be.
Then I began to wonder about the power and was it really delivering. I decided to run some lead through the lights to see just what this thing was really doing. I’m thinking by the way it felt, low to mid 8’s. Surprised again. With 7.9 pellets it was clocking 910 fps with a 5 fps spread and 880’s using 8.3 pellets. To me that is about a perfect velocity for an all around gun and good accuracy and what I used to try to achieve when I was tuning guns.
The only thing that I found to be objectionable was the long extended and heavy trigger pull, which I was already aware of and expected. That can be resolved. :o
I’m not going to open this gun up for reasons that I’ll not disclose but I’m thinking that it is pretty decent inside.
We are aware of course that Crosman has discontinued the NPSS under the Crosman banner and have moved it over to the Benjamin line under the Trail NP series. Same horse in a different barn I’m thinking. :o If they are using the same power plant and system, (and they probably are), they once again really do in my view have something that will move for them and something that I would highly recommend. :)
Whoda thunk it!!! My how me and times have changed… 8)
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Thanks for the review Bob!
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All we want to know is can you fix the trigger? I saw Paul do a review of it and it had a SIX POUND pull on the trigger!
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Yep 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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I've read that the trigger is different than a normal AR trigger. Like the way it distributes weight through the first and second stage or something like that? Is that so? I read that in Tom Gaylord's blog and didn't really understand it.
And of course, thanks for the review. Can't wait to see what you come up with to remedy the trigger.
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I thought they moved it to the Remington line and are calling it the Remington NPSS. PyramydAir even sent me an email that Crosman moved it to Remington so that the latter gets more business.
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Very nice to hear Bob, - and that trigger can "be fixed"??? - Or do you think that's really necessary?
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The rain has finally stopped here,,,,soon as the sun comes up Im looking for that rainbow. Im betting there just may be a pot of New Gold Triggers at the end of it!!!!!(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif)(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-innocent.gif)He He He!! Timbo.
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Lets hope so Tim, because I've been giving serious thought to a Benji Trail NP XL for critter control, but not if there isn't gonna be a "Tuna trigger" fix in it's future.
Paul.
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I want to get in line for a Tuna Trigger to put in my Npss. Other than the long hard trigger pull the Npss is a nice shooter. Keep us all updated Bob.
Charlie,
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Good initial feelings about the NPSS Bob. Even better if the trigger can be modded to be better.
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"Go look it up; it's called the NCT trigger"
Is that the "Not CharlieTuna" trigger?.
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Don't need to look it up and almost everyone is aware of it. Few have been sold. There are several different upgrades and mods for all kinds of applications, some better than others. There have been many NPSS trigger mods that I'm sure that you are not aware of but the NPSS and NCT does leave something to be desired and can be made to work far better. And the cost is twice what it should be in my opinion even if were exceptional with a whole new geometrical design. And in the case of the NPSS, you can't really change the basic design. You don't always get what you pay for.
And not only that, you could get the support and service that has been legendary in the past. What is that worth??? It seems there are not many around that truly support the NCT trigger (or the person that introduced it), and actually few sold as I understand it from a reliable inside source. And those that bought it that didn't like it were stuck with it and out their money.
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Yes, it can be fixed.
In my opinion John... for what it's worth ... it's not a question of "is it necessary" but rather is it an improvement that both improves the accuracy of the person behind the trigger and feel of the trigger to the shooter. And then is it worth the investment in an upgrade for that ultimate acheivement. That's a question that only the individual person that is contemplating or tossing that thought around in his mind has to weigh. Much like purchasing a GRT-III. Is it worth the investment to me ??? :o
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Was responding to your post last night when the power went out for the last time. So far as I can tell from all the post-catalog hoopla, the Crosman Nitro will be rebadged as a Remington and still made in USA. The Benjamin Super Streak becomes a gas rammed Trails. Looks like they are simply swapping rams for springs in the Benjamin lineup. Those will be made in China. Question is, where is the ram made? Makes more business sense for the Chinese to make a ram and install it, shipping the complete gun. Are the current NPSS rams made in USA? I would think so, but you never know if that means all components, etc.
Charlie, how did that rubber cheek comb work? Did it cut any more of the recoil or is it just there for cosmetics? (At least, on a firearm, you want a less grabby stock to let the comb slide free with recoil.) Handled a Nitro and they sure seem like a nice one. Been wondering if I ought to get a Crosman before the Remington change. Might be a tad collectible, etc.
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I have no doubt that this trigger will be top notch and a asset to the folks who own these shooters. The stock trigger isn't broke or malfunctioning so Bob's trigger wouldn't be a "fix" but a upgrade to a precision type feel trigger. Some folk's buy a shooter and never upgrade it in any way and are content with the way that it performs. There's the other folk's who do everything they can do to draw out as much performance from their shooters including tunes, triggers, barrels and the list go's on. Target or hunting with them it all depends on what the owners looking for and desiring from his or her shooter and bringing out the best of a shooter can also bring out the best in the one shooting it. Ed
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Hi Red:
I don't really know how to answer that but the cheek pad does raise the cheek weld a little higher to compensate for a scope. It does look nice but also serves a purpose I believe and may help to reduce the "feel" of the recoil but the recoil to me was not objectionable. It does have a rubbery non-slip feel to it though.
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You need to tap out the 2 pins that secures the cheek pad and raise it up the half inch that is provided in the stock. There are no open sights on the NPSS and you will need the scope. Fortunately, a scope is provided with the rifle as part of the package.
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I'm sure that anyone that owns one is well aware of all of that and it depends on the person and what scope he uses when it comes to adjustment. It isn't something that you need to do but rather an option for the individual. I didn't need the scope for my purposes and I asked the person that owns the gun not send the scope with the gun for my reasons.
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Thanks Bob, - where does one get one of these new triggers? - Does the GRT-III do it???
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Not quite ready yet John. I want to do just a little more testing yet. Probably another week or so.
No, it's not at all like the GRT-III....totally different.
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Thanks Bob, ...
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Well I am sure surprised with you post Bob. The only gas rams I have seen and have done light tunes on have been the Gamo's. They are very harsh and not a smooth cocking transition. I do know that they do not shoot as hard as the normal spring gun but can have a tight overall deviation compared to the some springers before they are tuned. Guess you are gonna make me go out and buy one... :) just to see what you are talking about. Also take her apart to see if Crosman has been doing there work.
Leave it to you Bob to make a better wheel..:) I am sure your new trigger blade will make it worth buying a new Trail NP. Just think a good smooth shooter out of the box and a new light weight trigger...:) Way to go Bob, and thanks again for making our air gun sport/hobby more fun and interesting.
Keep us informed. I have to go see Crosman for a new gun now...:)
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Hey.... glad to see ya back. You must be feeling better and maybe getting caught up huh? Need to talk to you about it...maybe lunch this week sometime. MEXICANO
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Sounds good Bob. I will just have chichen soupe...:)
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Yard bird soup is good for fighting those sick bugs Momma always said. :) Ed
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Im in!! You two guys got me lovin dat stuff!!!!!(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif)Double beef& bean for me!!:) See you guys SOON!!:) Tim.
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Gene, please don't buy a Nitro to take apart, tune, etc. I don't need another of your guns and am a bit poor at the moment. :D
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OK. So, Crosman has passed the Nitro NPSS series off to Remington as the NPSS line as well as to Benji as the Trail NP series. The Remington NPSS seams to be just about the same as the Crosman NPSS was, but the Benji Trail NP series looks to have nicer stocks and a slightly different look (from what I have seen).
So my question is -
Benji Trail NP or BSA Lightning XL?
Size aside - obviously the XL is almost 6" longer. But weight and velocity are comparable; as is its use. And the Trail NP is significantly less expensive. I know the Trail NP isn't out just yet, but the NPSS has been...
Thanks!
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This was off the Vortek site. I don't know if it is the same piston.
These pasts few years have been a busy time with new product designs and most recently, Vortek was awarded a multi-year contract with Crosman Corporation, East Bloomfield, NY, http://www.crosman.com for the licensing of the new “silent gas-spring retro-fit and airgun technologyâ€, trade name; “NITRO PISTONâ€, NPSS Air Rifles that produce high velocities from a short-stroke cylinder, and shares an ease of cocking relative to its power!
Good Health,
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Not sure how you could expect a comparison or it to be evaluated and commented on if the Trail NP is not even out yet. :o :0
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I know the Trail NP is not out yet, but the NPSS is and I figured they are basically the same except for the stock.
I figured someone who knew both the NPSS and the BSA Lightning XL could comment about strengths and weaknesses of each. Which of the 2 would you buy and why?
Sorry for being unclear.
-Matt
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It seems as though many are expecting another chunk of gold. Sorry....Not to be... :0 but it will work every bit as well and that's what matters.:)
Just to let everyone know, the new trigger would be made of Polymer. Because of the geometrical design, it would cost a couple thousand dollars just to get started to set up put a program, design and make jigs and set up tooling for CNC manufacturing. It is a big expensive project. Being that it would work only in a limited number of guns with a limited number of product demand and sales results, I can't invest that kind of money as I'm sure you can understand. So that is out of the question for the forseeable future.
Those costs are the reason that some of the gun manufactures are making them out of cast iron rather than a machined blade and that isn't in my opinion even as good a choice as the Poly.
(The trigger is not plastic). The trigger blade is a space age Polymer composite trigger with a hardened steel reinforced pivot point to eliminate any concerns regarding wear as is with some of the factory models. The trigger blade also has a serrated finger pad for better trigger pull control and is a two point adjustment trigger. It will be far superior to the factory trigger having less and adjustable first stage pull length as well as an adjustable second stage let off pull length and lighter pull weight. :)
It works 8)
More Later :D
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Let us know when you have the NPSS trigger for sale, cause I want one. Thanks.
Charlie,