GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Hunting Gate => : airiscool February 08, 2010, 05:44:16 AM
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Shot at three more Starlings and all took off, never to be seen.
The last one of the three was from the kitchen door, not the shed blind so that one was out at 22 yards, not the 15 from the shed window.
Since the flock was now far off, and I was getting VERY frustrated, I decided to check the gun once again. There was a black walnut that for some reason, the Squirrels didn't want. It was about two feet just to the right of the base of the feeder pole.
Just as I've been doing with the Starlings I aimed at it's center and squeezed. As the pellet hit it, the walnut was knocked back straight away from me about two feet. I've played enough pool to know that because it went straight away from me I'm pretty sure I hit it darned close to dead center.
Five minutes later their back. I center-up on one near the edge of the dry cat food pile and squeeze. It drops right where it had been standing. Feeling better about my love/hate affair with a springer, since I don't have to take my eyes off this one to watch for more, I wait to see if his buddies will come back. After a couple of minutes the darned bird is up and hopping away.
I track it with the scope and as it stops about 8 feet away, I put another Jumbo into it's side. Down it goes again, but it's tail and beek are still moving. A third shot and it's finaly stopped moving.
First picture is the blood where it drop at first shot.
Second pictures is how far it went when it got back up. The bird is in the lower left, the dry cat food is center top next to the black feeder pole. Just to the right of the pole you can make out the small black walnut I hit earlier. The shed window is behind my left shoulder, the kitchen door is behind my right shoulder.
A quick exam shows two gapping holes just to the rear of it's right side wing root - right where I aimed all three hits. The bird had been facing to my right each time I fired. I can't find any exit wounds yet. I'll also save this one in the freezer for the post op.
A gun/pellet/scope combo that can hit a black walnut at 22 yards , then drop a Starling at that range only to have that Starling need two more hits to finish it, each shot an easily seen through the scope hit, is not having trouble with accuracy. I gotta stop doubting myself - it's counter productive !!!!
My birds are just tough NY country birds and there's no getting around it !!! :D :D
Paul.
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they certainly can be tough to take down at times. I've hit them hard and watched them take flight. I like to wait until I get a full frontal shot and them aim for the breast, that usually puts em down for the count.
Jeff
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I feel your pain. I'm really convinced that I want a longitudinal shot if I can get it. I'm never off much left or right, usually. It's just up and down and on a longitudinal shot I get very few runners. Most die on the spot. Sometimes you can even gut them and send the pellet out the top of their head. They don't get up from that. ;). But a side shot? Heck, I'd say that half to 2/6 of those guys need a second shot if they don't run or fly away.
BTW, with the BC, they're all pass-throughs. I shot one at my back fence and it went through him AND through the fence (granted, it was an old piece of fence, but still!).
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Airiscool, what kind of weapon and ammo did you use? All of my Starlings if hit in the area you mentioned die on the spot or manage to fly a few yards and drop. Most of my shots are downwards since I shoot from a 2nd story window. A few have staggered away to hide after a shot, because I shot too back or front of it. I go with my air pistol....find them and pop them in the bushes.
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What angle and impact point are you using, GH? Both of us are shooting from 2nd floor. My max shot in the yard is maybe 30 yards. Maybe.
If I hit them from the side, I'm looking at a runner almost half the time, I think.
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From my 2nd story window my nearest shots would have to be 25 yards due to some obstrusions. My aim is not that steady because I`ve to rest my elbow on my knee, so for birds I aim at the chest, back or wing joint area. No head-shots.....I`ll reserve those for Crows....because I`ve hit them in the wing area and they laughed at me before flying off. My maximum shots are up to 80 yards (Only at certain angles)....I measured with my rangefinder.
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Man those are tough! May you need a new shooter like a 50cal. Dragon Slayer LOL
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I had several fly off last weekend after being hit with the 350. And I mean these things were hit good, or atleast I thought they were. I was amazed that they could lose so many feathers and still fly. Then I would shoot another one and that dang thing would die so fast he would forget to let go of the branch. I had one instant kill that I had to shoot 2 more times just to knock him out of the tree. Now this may sound funny but I swear I had more instant kills when I was shooting my slower and lower powered Daisy Power Line 880 in .177 cal. I would still get pass throughs from 20 yards but not many of them moved any farther then form the feeder to the ground, and stayed put once there.
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Paul , I was just thinking have you ever tried crowmags? They do a heck of job on sparrows with my RS3 at 25 yards, I would love to get some starlings but I have not seen any around here
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That may be it. The 350 series blows through things so fast almost like a powder burner. Maybe you could try heavy pellets or cheap Daisy wadcutters? Those things are soft!
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Good shooting and pic's but those guys might be sporting flack vest around your place. :o :) Ed
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My birds are just tough NY country birds and there's no getting around it !!!
Starlings on steroids, that's gotta be it! LOL Hang in there Paul it will get better. They are a tough nasty bird, no doubt about it.
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Ed,
I was begining to wonder if they had vests, chainmail, comic books, or something under those feathers. I did a quick check of a couple to see where they'd been hit and I was surprised just how thin their feather layer and wings are.
To answer some of the questions.....
The shed is closest at a measured 15 yards to the feeder pole (I don't have a range finder - I use a 200 foot tape measure for all my range measuring). The bottom of the shed window is 6 feet above ground level, so from there all shots are downward, except the few I took kneeling down in the shed so I could shoot straight up at some sitting on over hanging branches. Then I'm aiming for the center of their belly.
From the kitchen door, the feeder pole is a measure 22 yards and the shots are more level.
I'm using a 22 Whisper - artillery hold.
In the shed I use a 5 foot long PVC pipe rest under my left hand (I shoot righty), and my left elbow on a rest against the wall that is the same height as the PVC pole, so it's just about as steady as when I shoot off a bench/bag.
From the Kitchen doorway I'm holding the edge of the door with my left hand and resting the gun on the back of my hand.
First day I was using Jumbo RS 13.4 grain which chrony at 686fps. Thinking a heavier pellet might do better, Sunday morning I re-sighter in with the Jumbo 15.8 gr, which chrony at 620fps. Both shoot ragged one-hole groups at 15 yards in this gun now that the bad factory seal and undersized mount stop-pin problems have been taken care of.
About 2/3 of the shots are at the Starling's sides through the wings. Just like the one I posted pix of yesterday that had a nice shot grouping just aft of it's right wing root, center of the body. The other 1/3 are either breast shot, or belly shot from below. Of all those I shot and was able to recover, all four were side shot through the wing, center of mass. None of the breast, or belly shot were recovered.
Of the four recovered, the one that was able to fly the furthest had the worst damage and bled out the most- from an upper side entrance downward, with a large exit wound in it's belly. The one with the least damage was the first one that was shot with the lighter pellet and dropped right where it was eating, never to move.
I'm certain there's enough pellet energy, because I've been using this same gun/15.8gr Jumbo combo to take all 20 Grays and some of the 6 Reds I've gotten since small game season started. They go right through head shot Gray Squirrels out to these ranges, except for a few front on shots that hit in the shoulder, or in the head with the gray facing me. Then the pellets stayed in the body cavity.
Of those 20 Grays and 6 Reds, only 2 Reds needed follow-up shots.
Tough birds ? What would you guys think if you were getting these same results ?
Paul.
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Paul,
Maybe that stuff you 're feeding them was made near a nuclear plant if you get my meaning. You are making a new breed of indestructible Starlings!! hehehe. Either that or they are wearing little pellet-proof vests under all those feathers which explains why they get up, dust themselves off, and fly away after you hit them.
Come to think of it like a couple of others said, I have mostly shot them with low powered airguns. I used to kill them just fine with my Crosman 760 and 66 pumpers in the early 80's in my parents' backyard with BB's. No scope, usually off-hand shooting at 20+yds. Hek I shot one at 60+yds with the 760. There was a bunch on my neighbor's chimney and roof and decided to take the shot after my friend dared me and bet me $1 I couldn't hit it :) The Starling rolled down the roof and landed dead on the neighbor's newspaper in his porch while he was reading it! I had not seen him sitting there that one Sunday morning! I was 14 :) Boy did I run to my room quickly and my friend ran home. The doorbell rang 2min. later.. I had my 760 taken away for almost a month for that one! :D hehehe Longest shot I have made with an airgun to date and made about $5 today's money 8)
Just keep shooting them even if you recover 1 out of 10 or 20 :) At least you are wounding them and they won't make it through the harsh winter. The objective is to reduce their #'s. If you want more confirmed kills, get a Disco with a TKO or a Marauder which is very quiet, and your "recovered bird" percentage will go up tremendously. I 'd recommend a recoiless 850 but you shoot outdoors and the CO2 will give you rediculously low velocity #'s unless you convert it to HPA which then will be nearly the cost of a Marauder.. Shooting CO2 outside will resulting in the Starlings moving, or flying away before the pellet gets there if they are >15yds away.
I 'm sure you have a Scuba shop not far away. I feel the Dark Side pulling you already, hehe :) How far are you from say Newburgh? Maybe I 'll come up with my Condor one wknd to shoot a few of your famous tough Starlings.. to see how they stand up to 21-31gr lead :)
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I'm sticking with my cheap soft pellets theory that they might work the best :) We need frangible pellets! Frangible ammo is used in hostage situations where you don't want the ammo to go through the target.
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Roger that, atch!
I would love a softer version of the Crow Mag. I'm pretty sure that more instant drops and kills would result.
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Well you could go to Wally World and for less than $3 get a tin of nice soft cheap Daisy Wadcutters! I've shot them okay out of the 350 at short range. My stupid Air Hawk loves them! It is the only pellet that will shoot accurately out of it!
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Randy, Mark,
These Jumbos are so soft I can easily pinch the skirts compleatly closed with using just two finger tips. Superdomes, Super hollow points, Preditors, I have to use plers to pinch them as closed.
Just wacked another Starling.
It was off to the right of the feeder in a compost pile. Can't get the gun over far enough from the window to reach it, so I went to the Shed door. Carefully eased around the door jam and looked.
Only it's head was above the pile as it was bobbing up and down rooting/eating. When it's head was down, I brought the gun up, leaned against the door jam, put the cross hairs on it and waited. It was slowly climbing the back side of the compost pile headed straight toward me. When it got on top and moved into a good sized gap in the branches of a bush, it gave me a left quartering brest shot. Squeezed off another Jumbo and saw the Starling rolled over backwards, instantly get up and strugle to fly. It didn't know where the shot came from because it flew toward me and past the shed to my left - only able to get a few feet off the ground. I thought for sure this one's going down.
I carefully leaned the gun up in a corner and went around the shed for a look. No Starling to be seen. I continued on around that side of the house looking everywhere, including in the Neighbor's yard. Still nothing.
A little while later I was looking out a kitchen window on that side of the house to see if it was visable and saw a bunch of Sparrows zoom by the window from a sticker bush they hide out in just outside. I looked at the bush and there on top was the Cooper Hawk waving around on the top branches and looking after the departing Sparrows. It took off after the Sparrows and I couldn't believe how fast it could manuever around trees in the neighbor's yard. It was like watching a large Bat !!!!! They all flew off so fast I couldn't see if the Coopers caught any of the Sparrows.
Anyway, I'm doing my best to thin out the Starling mob, but don't expect to see any wack 'em- n- stack 'em pictues from here.
Paul.
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Think the hawk is your clean up hitter?
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Just had a Coopers Hawk fly in! I was watching the Nuthatches , Finches , Chickadees around the feeder and all of a sudden they all took off and I saw the hawk fly in, watched it land on a low tree branch and grabbed the binoculars to get a good look , I went to get a camera but he was gone. First year I have spent time really bird watching and never knew there were so many hawks around
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We're not only seeing more Hawks in town this year, but also alot more out of town. More this past year than ever before.
Saturday, the Girlfriend, (who loves the outdoors even more than I do) and I did one of our weekend afternoon "Critter drives". We go for a drive in the surounding country back roads sight-seeing and looking for critters. I keep a log book in the van and she writes down when and how many of what we've seen. Counted 102 deer out in pastures (hardly any snow cover here). About two dozen Turkeys. But the best part was we saw a Red Tail Hawk in it's nest, up about 30 feet in a tree that was only about 50 feet off the road. We stopped and watched it until it flew off.
She lives near Saratoga Springs and says she's been seeing alot of large Hawks while driving along the NY State Northway (Interstate 87).
Maybe global warming aint such a bad thing afterall ???
Paul.
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wow, i knew they were tough but not that tough LOl atleast you got him!