GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Airgun Gate => : grburt February 22, 2010, 06:51:25 AM
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Anyone shoot air pistols too? I have several air rifles, but the cost to shoot 9mm or 40SW handguns is getting outrageous. I have some tax money and was thinking about a little 10 meter air pistol shooting. Some of the neighbors look at me 'funny' when they see a long gun in the backyard. Looking at a IZH 46M or Gamo Compact or Weihrauch HW 75 . Anyone share their thoughts ?
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I have several air pistols (I am not a C02 shooter). From your list, I like the IZH46M. This is suitable for competition training.
Another one to consider is the P3. Some folks like the cheapie Marksman 2004 knock off of the P3 also (I don't, but I had bad luck with them). The P3 points and feels like a real firearm, and has a wonderful trigger. It isasingle-pump pneumatic and a joy to shoot, once you get used to the cocking process.
I will edit to add the Crosman 1377... a $50 pistol that can become whatever you want it to, if you're into modding. Truly a universal weapon.
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Have you considered the beeman P1 (HW45)?
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kinda. I did not like the feel of it. I think it was the recoil.
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I considered the same pistols and bought the HW75 and am very pleased with it. My decision was based on the reputation of Weihrauch, and mixed reviews I read on the Gamo. I decided against the IZH because it is more like a dedicated target pistol and I wanted something more all around for target and plinking.
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Did you ever shoot a P1 ? I don't know anyone who has the 75. What is recoil like, if any ? I don't mind the spring feeling in a rifle - but it drives me crazy with a pistol.
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The Crosman CO2's and 1377's (pumper) are good, non-recoiling pistols. Can be boosted to some pretty high power levels, too. Lots of stuff to spend the rest of your money on with that company. By the time you're done, the Izzy 46 seems cheap.
Almost forgot. The Diana LP8 is supposed to be pretty nice, although I don't know about the recoil.
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There is no recoil; it is a single pump pnuematic. Very accurate
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P1 recoil may be different from what you're accustomed to since the spring drives the piston to the rear of the pistol while its the opposite in a springer rifle.
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I believe the Diana LP8 is very similar to the Diana P5 Magnum. The LP8 is the new model with a scope rail, the P5 Magnum don`t have one. I have the P5 Magnum and she have quite abit of recoil.....you just have to get used to it. Very powerful (Don`t believe their 700fps claim....maybe in the 550fps range with 7.9gr. pellets) and accurate too.
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Do you mean 10m competition APs?
Casual or serious shooting?
What is your budget, as 10m APs get very expensive on the upper end.
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If it's target shooting buy a Crosman 2300T, If you want to use it for both hunting and target get a Mac 1 tuned Crosman 2240 either one you can't go wrong.
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Ive had a 1377 for years and its a good shooter. Accurate and lots of add ons available.
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Just my opinion, but don't waste money on the Gamo Compact. They're not well made at all.
If you want to punch paper at 10m, I highly recommend the IZH-46; simply a fantastic gun for the price. Great trigger, nice sights.
If you want to save some cash, start out with a Daisy (Avanti) 747 -- just as good a shooter as the izzy (my call) but half the price. If you can scare up an old Daisy 777, then you're really cooking; or you can find the 777 grips and throw them on a 747.
If you'll do more plinking than serious target shooting -- and you disliked the recoiling P1, but are considering the HW75 -- then you would probably be nicely surprised by the HW40PCA. Rebranded, it is the "Beeman P3", but it's a quality Weihrauch.
Beware of the "Beeman P17 - Marksman 2004" clones, which are far lesser quality, though they are externally almost identical. There are P17/2004 owners who are happy with their guns (and I am sincerely happy for those guys) but I had two of each brand, and all four of them were lemons.
The HW40PCA (Beeman P3) is pneumatic, single-stroke, and brilliant. Nice trigger.
The downside: the sights are not great...
I personally don't care for the Crosman "Custom Shop" guns: not enough improvement over what you can do to the base models at home on your own to justify the cost (and the triggers...oy...).
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Not competition. Casual. I guess I should have said target shooting at about 33 feet in the backyard. My first choice is single pump pnuematic, because I don't want to mess with CO2 or scuba tanks on a pistol. Budget is up to $500 total. So let's say $400 for the gun.
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I am starting to lean toward a less expensive pistol to start with. Say a Daisy (Avanti) 747 . Keep my ego in check, I'm not going to walk up with an Izzy and shoot a 1000 right off the bat as much as I wish to. :D
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You could (and many people do) shoot every bit as well with a 747 (or 717, for that matter) as they can with the IZH. I think the IZH is balanced better, and it has much better grips and trigger than the Avanti crowd; sights on either are passable. The one niggle I have with the 46M is that the twin breach seals tend to need replacing, a lot (because they tend to fall out, a lot). Well, maybe that and the price, $380... but it's basically an olympic match pistol for less than $400, when others cost $2,000 or more.
The 777 and 747 have the same barrels (or did, the 777 is no longer made) and sights; the 777 had hardwood target grips.
Even though the less expensive 717 doesn't have the "good" barrel or grips, it's still outstanding; the 717 is a good gun, and all of the 7x7's are pretty robust, so if you pick up a used one, it will probably have years left in it.
For the money, the bargain-priced 717 is a better shooter (I feel) than either the HW40PCA or the Gamo Compact (bleah...). Against the plastic-gripped Avantis, the HW40PCA is lighter, better balanced, and has better ergonomics (and a better trigger); but it's harder to cock and load, and the sights are so-so.
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Thanks for all the discussion. You're a geat bunch of shooters ! I decided to start small - I just ordered the 747. Now just need Timmy to make me some grips out of his walnut scraps !!!
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The Daisy/Avanti 747 is a great pistol to start with.
The advantages it has over the 717 is a Walther barrel and an adjustable trigger.
One thing that I really liked is that you can cock the hammer w/o charging the air. This lets you dry fire the pistol all you want w/o damage to the pistol or releasing air and making a lot of noise. This lets you work on your trigger technique w/o the disruption of the noise of firing the pistol.
There are 2 mods that I recommend.
#1 - The stock pistol tends to slip/rotate in your hand, especially if you have a sweaty palm like I do. Put a small (1 inch x 1 inch) square of non-skid on the backstrap.
#2 - IMHO, the stock rear sight is bit too narrow. To widen it, get a small hobby file and little-by-little widen the notch on the rear sight, so the white on both sides of the front sight appears as about half the with of front sight.
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i love my p1 and ill resize zome pics later today when i have some time and post the groups
and also i have a mac1 ld coming in this week
that should be a nail driver
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lets see if this pic works
it was a off hand group with the p1 after i put maybe 100-200 pellets through it i have only had the gun a couple weeks
it was shot at 12 yards
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I have a 717 and the trigger IS adjustable. Got the wooden grips (ambidexterous... dont like the thumb rest...) and used the b square mount on a Izzie 46 to mount a pistol scope. Correctly adjusted (get one, you'll understand...) mine shoots RWS hobbies at 411 fps average with a deviation of 2 fps above or below. I even use it for starling interception at the feeders from 20 yards away. Headshots are very doable and cleanly take them out. i love it. And got me a second place in a pistol silhouette comp last sunday... you'll enjoy it. it is daisy's best kept secret (so are the avanty rifles...)
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I was lucky to pick up an excellent condition Daisy 777 about 10 years ago at a yard sale for less than $100. My 777 had the target grips, which were waaaaay too chunky for me, but a couple hours with a Dremel tool and sandpaper fixed that -- and I have 0 skill at woodworking, so it was a good learning experience. At that time, I gave my 15+ year old 717 to an old college buddy (to share the wealth/joy, etc).
I can't remember if my old 717 had an adjustable trigger... but I fondly remember it as a top-notch shooter, especially considering that I bought it new for about $49 back in the late 80's. What a bargain!
I know they (and the 747) have gone up quite a bit since then, but they are still both excellent values. They are still certainly priced at an "entry-level" point, althougn I hesitate to lump them into the category of "entry-level" competition guns, since they're very competitive in their own right.
I don't compete at all (well, maybe against my wife, but she is so much better than me, it's not much of a competition..). But my 777 shoots thousands of pellets each year at paintballs on golf tees, and it moonlights controlling the carpenter bee and hornet population.
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Just by way of rounding up... I think this is my pistol list:
Daisy 747, RWS5G/P5, Cometa Indian, 2 x IZH46M (one leftie), IZH-53, Crosman 1377, HW70 (no rear sight), P3, Crosman 150. And a Drozd, if that counts.
I almost never shoot the CO2 guns.
Of all of them, my go-to is always the P3. The IZH46Ms are the most accurate, though. The Cometa is a fine shooter but the trigger is not as good as the two previous. The old HW70 showed a lot of potential, but until I make or find a rear sightblade,it's hard to give it a chance. The 1377 is in a league of its own, and you get out of them whatever you put in.The russki 53 is their bargain pistol- low powered but built like a tank, very large, and accurate.
Mommy prefersher leftie 46M and after that, the Daisy Avanti 747 (I used to like it until I put the leftie grips on for her). She is really good with the Avanti, and a little trigger work would really make it shine.
I think the most overrated is the P5... it's a fine piece of machinery, but nowhere near as powerful as advertised (the 700 fps claim could only be with alloy pellets). The safety is annoying as heck and I have never found the sweet spot on the trigger adjustment. It's good, but not great.