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General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Airgun Gate => : Tpatner412 February 25, 2010, 09:11:56 AM

: $500 for a new rifle....
: Tpatner412 February 25, 2010, 09:11:56 AM

So I have $500 for a new rifle and I have a few options in mind.  The RWS 48 striker combo from pyramyd in .22 is calling my name.  Just an awesome looking side lever that from what I hear preforms very well.  Next is the BSA Lightning XL Tactical.   Don't know too much about it though?  And finally would be to save my money and wait a month for reviews of the Benjamin Trail series rifles and get one of those bad boys and a GRT-III.  Any feedback is good feedback as far as I'm concerned so please comment.

: RE: $500 for a new rifle....
: longislandhunter February 25, 2010, 09:17:48 AM

What are your plans for the rifle,,, target, hunting, both ?????

Jeff

: RE: $500 for a new rifle....
: Meann-Machine February 25, 2010, 09:21:42 AM

If you have $500 and you are interested in the RWS48, breeze right on by the 48 and get the 54. I have seen several nearly new ones on Brad's classifieds go from $335 to $385. There is one listed now, as new, for $430. I have bought many used but not abused air rifles that way and I have never been burned. In my opinion the 54 is twice the gun the 48 is. It is better looking; as, or more powerful; and recoilless. You would not be sorry.

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Tpatner412 February 25, 2010, 09:22:15 AM

I'd say more target than hunting but when a squirrel or bird decides to wander into my yard I'll take a shot at it

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Tpatner412 February 25, 2010, 09:24:21 AM

I did consider a 54 but a) I was hoping for a scope combo and b) I've heard the 54 is a scope killer.  Just what I've heard though

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: longislandhunter February 25, 2010, 09:34:23 AM

Out of the rifles you mentioned I'd go with the lightening XL,, provided it's one that's made in England.  Word was that they shifted their production facility to Spain... although I'm not aware if that's been verified or not.  At any rate, if it's an English made XL I'd go with that for sure over the 48, especially since you'll be doing mostly target.  I own a .20 cal 48 and I absolutely love it but I bought it and use if for hunting only, I don't really consider it a target rifle.  I don't own an XL but I've shot them plenty of times and every one I ever shot have been really sweeeet rifles.  One of the best "out of the box" shooters I've ever shot.    Just my opinion,,, others may differ of course.

Jeff

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Meann-Machine February 25, 2010, 09:50:11 AM

You mentioned earlier about maybe saving for an extra month. If you do that you can buy a 54 proof scope for under $100. If you pick up a 54 used you will have both the rifle and the scope for right around your $500 limit. I have a bunch of different scopes that are 54 proof, some easily under $100 and some way over $100, but all of them a good buy for the money. I have a 3-12x44 Compact Mildot AO Centerpoint on my 54 I picked up for $139. Nice scope. Good match.

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: atchman2 February 25, 2010, 09:54:26 AM

Maybe a Beeman R-9 :)  I know Gene likes them :)

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: longislandhunter February 25, 2010, 10:04:06 AM

Now that's a great suggestion Randy..  The R-9's are definitely sweet.  I have 2 R-9  Goldfingers  a  .177 and a .22  and they are superb shooters right out of the box.  

Jeff

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Meann-Machine February 25, 2010, 10:04:31 AM

Some information on the R9:

R-9 1000 fps February 25 2010 at 3:33 PM	Tim McMurray (mac1airgun@gmail.com)  (Login Mac-1 (http://"../../Profile/Mac-1)) YF
The R-9 and most of the HW made Barrel breaks sold under the Marksman label were designed around the parts left by BSF's liquidation. Body tubes, sights, scope rails, trigger guards etc. were used up on the guns mentioned. Ivan Hancock(Venom founder) and I visited the factory well after Beeman had hyped the gun as a 1000 fps gun but prior to its actual release. The Beeman gun known as the R-9 was generically known as the HW85 as that was the year it was penned. I think we visited HW in '86 and we gave Hans quite a ration about the speed thing. It was pretty obvious the HW85 did not have the stroke or piston size to get 1000 fps with any of the pellets made then and we didn't hesitate to give Hans a hard time about the overpromise thing. He made it clear he wasn't the one doing the hyping and he agreed the gun was going to be less powerful then the HW80/R1 which was rated fairly at 980. Everyone who ever picked up a Springer wanted it to be lighter so a gun with more power and less heft was an easy sell. The problem was executing a design of this sort was going to take a lot of majic as hype doesn't trump Physics and never will. Majic is a little hard to come by also so we had a situation where the hype eventually had to be adjusted downward to be anywhere near reality. The bottom line was the r9 would easily hit 12 fpe but it just wasn't going to outperform the HW80 no matter what Doc BB told people. It was at most a 14 fpe gun while still grouping decently and it would last about half as long as HW's normally did in doing that. This seemed to me the beggining of the outrageous claims which have become the norm in this industry. Since newbies have nothing to go by but outright speed the claims manufacturers make has a lot to do with how much demand they see for their products regardless of how close to reality the claims are. Everyone needs to share the blame for this situation but the newbie has to reconcile reality with what's posted here and it can be a daunting process. (http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1267057147.JPG)

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: longislandhunter February 25, 2010, 10:10:24 AM

I love both of mine  :)

Jeff

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Sam February 25, 2010, 11:23:00 AM

If you do not own a Beeman R-9, get one.  R-9 are excellent rifles and are now back in stock with some dealers.  I have RWS 48 in 0.22, very powerful and accurate gun.  I shoot it open sight because it does tend ti kill scopes.  The R-9 is smoother, lighter, and I found it to be less twangy than the RWS 48.  I like my R-9 better.

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Mark 611 February 25, 2010, 11:54:35 AM

If you have your heart set on a 48 get it you can't go wrong with the 48 in .22cal, Air Gun Depot has a combo with a leapers scope a 3x9x40aomd  425$ I have one and thier very good rifles and have enough power to do just about anything you'd want to do with a spring gun and very accurate to boot thier easy to tune and get parts for, JMHO

: RE: $500 for a new rifle....
: Bogey February 25, 2010, 12:05:11 PM

$500. to spend?   The HW- 95 is interesting.  If you dedide on the RWS 48, spend a few extra $ and get the RWS 54.  Much nicer in appearance.  

But all of the suggestions from others  are good ones.   You just have to spend your money and takes your chances.

: RE: $500 for a new rifle....
: joeblow February 25, 2010, 12:13:59 PM

why has no one mentioned the tx?!?

: RE: $500 for a new rifle....
: patton123 February 25, 2010, 12:36:06 PM

How about a RWS 34  either cal. Nice light weight gun, not to hard on scopes. Perfect for target shooting  or small game hunting.

Just a thought.

BTW you want something fun to shoot, buy a RWS 850.

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Tpatner412 February 25, 2010, 05:27:31 PM

Well the tx is on a very short list of higher end springers that I'm interested in but I can't swing the extra $100 or so right now.  The 34 is on my list and I've been contemplating getting that and a Benjamin Trail series rifle at the same time.  I am kind of wondering why the RWS 48 is a scope killer though, any insight?  Pyramyd has the anti barrel droop mount with it but since its a fixed barrel rifle does it have barrel droop?  Anyway thanks for all the comments and help

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Mryan21 February 25, 2010, 05:49:55 PM

Do you own any pcps? I just got a discovery and am amazed at the accuracy and power. Pumping isn't a problem at all. Decent power and alot of accurate shots per fill.

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Progun February 25, 2010, 06:18:38 PM

Tyler, the droop compensating mounts you refer to for the RWS Diana models will give you a solid platform for mounting a scope.They prevent the mounts from scooting rearward on the scope rail when you shoot.The RWS Diana models all share the same scope rail that has the inherent problem of too shallow stop pin holes that usually allow stop pins to dig out.So if you get a 48, get that Leapers mount. Since you won't know if the barrel has droop issues until you shoot it, you could order both versions of this mount (droop, or no droop) so to have your bases coverd. They don't cost very much. If you chose either the TX200 or an R-9 you can mount up easily with just about any rings. No inherent complications like the Diana models. Man what a problem to have. There are lot's of nice guns that are available in your budget so look before you leap.Don't forget to factor in the cost of a decent scope, mounts and ammo for whatever you choose.Don't overlook the classifieds for some of the bargains.

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Tpatner412 February 25, 2010, 07:01:22 PM

Thanks for the info Pro. Myran, I have thought about a oxo but I am
really interested in building my springer collection because they don't need co2 or hpa to work. Also I just like springers more. I have a qb 78 and I'm just not as interested in it as I once was (mainly
because I bought my first springer). Still not sure
if I want to go with the 48 or the 34 and a benji trail but I suppose I am
well armed with info now to make
a well
informed
decision. Thanks everyone

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: atchman2 February 26, 2010, 01:04:26 AM

I just think there is a big difference between the 34 and the 48 in power and capabilities.  I'd think either one would be great.  Since I'm more of a hunter I'd get the 34, maybe get it tuned up a bit, and get a nice scope it I had your level of money to spend on one.  

However if I had $500 to spend, it would be one of these guns 1) a Beeman R-9, 2) a Cometa Fusion 3) or a Mike Melick tuned R-9 clone with a nice scope

Randy

: Dissenting Opinion
: daveshoot February 26, 2010, 02:16:13 AM

I will respectfully run against the grain and recommend the 48, given your purpose. This is going to be based on my experience with the brands you mention. I have a 48 in .20 like Jeff, a 34 and a Lightning in .22, and I have gotten to shoot a 54 although I don't own one.

For bench shooting my 48 willshoot at least aswell asthe BSA and has a better trigger. It is one of the few rifles I am choosing to shoot with iron sights for now, because I like thesights it came withThe Lightning can be tuned, but mine is not. The BSA trigger is complex and not a DIY project for my meager skills. The 48 is a big heavy rifle, and the BSA is a short light carbine. For hunting I would want the BSA but for target I like the 48.

I did not care for the recoilless operation of the 54. I think it is too mechanical for my taste, meaning more stuff is moving around. It is a scope killer because it is recoilless to the shooter, but not to the scope, which rides back on the carriage when you shoot and takes the shock of the sudden stop. It is even heavier than the 48. Both are really well-made rifles... the 48 is just more tomy personal taste. With the 48 you would get a quality scope and a very good scope mount, and you'll be fine. The 48 is just a magnum springer when all is said and done, and not even at the high end of what is considered "magnum" any more. With the 54 it seems that additional measures are necessary to keep the mount from moving and you'd want an even better built scope, due to the recoiling carriage.

I think the 52 is the jazzed up 48 in appearance, which is fine if you like elaboratecheckering and stuff. The 54 is the recoilless version of them.

I also really love my 34 and as a field gun I could pick up either the BSA or it, and be just as happy. It is longer than the BSA but a comfortable weight for walking all day. It is also accurate and has a nice trigger, but I don't think it is quite in the same accuracy league as the 48.

Frankly I kind of like side lever guns. I don't necessarily prefer them to break barrels, but if you already have some break barrels and want to try something a little different, the side lever is nice for bench and bipod use. I don't personally like underlevers as well.

I will qualify this by saying they are just my personal experience based on the guns I happen to have. I think I need to spend some $$$ to get my Lightning tuned by a pro, and I just haven't gotten around to that. It certainly has potential, but they are not cheap to have work done on. The 48 is the "Yard Commander" meaning it is a cool bench gun and will also strike unwelcome visitors with ease and authority.

And to make matters worse, I would add to your dilemma by suggesting you also consider a Cometa (either Fenix 400 or the new Fusion)... I only have the old RWS94 versions but I just freakin' love this break barrel and the new ones are even better. You could buy some pretty nice glass with the savings.

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Mark 611 February 26, 2010, 03:42:41 AM

You are right about the Cometa Fenix 400's I have a compact model it is an exelent rifle the trigger is better than an RWS its  deadly accurate in .22cal I'm getting around 750fps w/14.3 cphp's and its light weight, good enough for the bench or field use I've shoot alot of pigeons with mine at 50 an 60yds with it with ease!

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: jpokorski February 26, 2010, 04:41:55 AM

I agree - look for a good used R9 (or R10). A bit less power (still plenty), but lighter, quicker to load, better trigger, much nicer stock...For a short while I had both a 48 and an R10, and I far preferred shooting the R10.

Jay

: Re: $500 for a new rifle....
: Meann-Machine February 26, 2010, 10:06:49 AM

Ya pays yur nickle and takes yur chances. Good luck with whatever you choose.

: RE: $500 for a new rifle....
: kf9vh February 27, 2010, 06:05:47 AM

I second the Discovery. For $500 you can get the rifle, pump, rings and scope. Since it has no recoil you don't have to buy a spring gun rated scope. If you need more than 30 shots on a hunt or plinking session get a springer but there is nothing like the power and lack of recoil the Disco provides for the price.