GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Airgun Gate => : Bhawanna February 28, 2010, 11:34:47 AM
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why do people buy MULTIPLE $89-$150 low-end airguns, then spend money to tune them and have about $600+ tied up in 5 guns ( they will never re-coup any money for ) when they could spend $600 and buy one really nice gun? is it the thought of they can own a BUNCH OF GUNS? case-in-point: i know an individual that owns 7 low-end chinese guns that he spent money to tune and accessorize and he has aboout $1000.00 tied up in them. for a $1000 bucks he could have bought 2 nice guns and had them tuned and had enough money to buy some decent glass...... just a thought?..... not trying to ruffle any feathers just trying to comprehend the "thought process"....
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Bhawanna, I'm not sure if there is a "thought process"....which would be why this happens.
OR, it's that people are generally impatient when it comes to their hobbies and things they're passionate about. So, what happens is as fast as they get some extra money, they spend it on a new china springer or a cheap accessory for their new china springer instead of saving it for a few months to get a nicer, more expensive gun. Delayed gratification almost completely dissapeared with the invention of the microwave. :)
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I think you hit it on the head XS...............I've been saving for a decent 10m rifle. Just recently sold a pretty nicely smithed Colt Auto Pistol in 45ACP but now am not reeeeel anxious to run out and grab what's available but have been tempted with several "good deals" or "gee, haven't had one of those" in other realms of the shooting world. Kinda nice to be able to have a bit of a choice but the "get it now" is always a temptation I have to fight. I likes me toyz.
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Well, I had to go through that myself.
My thought process was; "why buy expensive gun if you can buy the gun that is half the price and shoots as accurately"
But only after you buy it, of course, you start to understand why their price is not as high. I wanted it to be as good as high end gun.
Obviously the super friendly and informative forums contribute to that as well by showing that you can do this tune and that tune. Without these forums we wouldn't have the purpose of life and happiness. I am deeply greatful for this forum as I've learned alot.
So, I had to justify my spending money on the cheaper rifle by making it better through tuning it. You have nice gun in the end but than.....ooopps...I have $600 invested in the gun.
But than again I have nothing against the china guns, just explaining my train of thought.
Anyway, as of now I really got this passion to get high end guns and that is what I am doing.
I just bought AA S410Classic off of yellow classifieds in as new condition as you can get with nice walnut stock for $700 and that was good buy I must say.
And I have accumulated enough dineros for the TX or ProSport.
I just wanna experience how it feels to shoot high quality air rifle.
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Because it's a good idea. I have a Crosman 800X - Turbo Tuned by Gene, with a GRT-III trigger. It's a TOTAL tack driver, my total costs less UPS is under $300.00. No $600.00 "masterpiece" will out shoot it. - Ditto for a Crosman Phantom I have - same story, 'bout the same cash. - For what I've spent - I'm WAY ahead of the game. Why would anyone do something else??? Ended up with two great springers for less that some folks pay for one. - BTW - I have no interest in the "dark side", fine for those that do, but I'll pass. - In fact I just took delivery on a 22 cal. Crosman Nitro, - 'bout to take it for a "test drive" this week. - BTW, - I had a Beeman, I returned it.
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I guess most of the new comers to the AG sport can't see spending a lot of cash for a "BB-Gun". I'm guilty of that myself. But once they shoot the good stuff, then they start to see the light. Since I got my Beeman RX2, I seriously doubt I'll ever buy anything of lesser quality than a Diana 34. Economy guns are fun to play with and mod/accesorize, but it's like that old saying goes, you get what you pay for. Want a good gun, go to academy sports,.. Want a Great air rifle, save up your money and get a German made Beeman, AA, etc and so forth. I stil enjoy my cheap stuff but at the same time there really isn't much of a comparison when up next to a quality AR. It's the investment (tuning, mounts, glass, triggers, replacement parts, etc) in cheap stuff that still bugs me the most. Chalk it up as a learning experience I reckon. LOL's, tjk
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Roger, not everyone has a deep pockets like you do...:) Half of my collection are those $50.00 to $200.00 so called low end air guns. Did you ever figure that some people like to try and make things better like home tunes etc.. And try and save some money. Sure we eventually will buy one or more of those $600.00 guns but we all start somewhere with learning the fun of air guns. It is like you have to crawl before you walk..:) Sure I tune them and for the most part those low end guns come out sweeter than many of the $300.00 and $600.00 air rifles. Did you ever figure what the mark up was on those high end guns are. Most people would wet their pants if they knew what the dealers really pay for them. Allot of those so called $600.00 air rifles have some or all of the parts source out to different countries. So Roger I love you but you are a turd...:)
Shown is a $20.00 B-3 which shoots excellent and also my $800.00 ProSport. Both are as equally fun for me to shoot...:)
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Simple answer... some are happy on what they can afford, just like my neighbor on my right is happy with his Toyota and the one in front of me is happy with his BMW.
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I have to agree with you on this one... I'm still very young in this sport compared to most of you guys. But I am a very quick learner and what I've found out is you gotta pay for quality... most of my life i've had bb guns and air rifles of all sorts, none of them costing more than $120. which even then I thought was alot..
It wasn't until last year when I purchased and airgun costing more than $200 (gamo cfx) that I really started to notice the difference in quality... and it's true you get what you pay for. Especially when you think about the fact with proper love and care these guns will last for many years to come.
Btw Like i said im a quick leaner
I now just made another first and paid over $350 for an airgun (disco), and already I'm planning on saving up and paying ($470) for its big brother the marauder ( just to keep it in the family) :emoticon:
it's all about bigger and better, enjoy life. buy what you want!
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Gene, you didn't answer his question. You home tune your guns, what about others who pay big money(more than the gun itself) for tunes.
My way of thinking is the same, I would own 1 really nice suit instead of 3 so-so suits.
But, it' s a hobby and it's about whatever makes you happy.
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Eric, my point was that many of us new air gunners are shocked by the prices we see for some air guns. When I started I could afford a $200.00 air gun and six months later I paid for a tune. But $350. out of pocket at first seems like allot. Not all of us have deep pockets and can just go out and buy a $300. to $600. gun of the bat..:) Like myself I wanted to shoot some cridders and I did not see why I needed a high end gun at first. What if I lost interest.
Anyway I have seen guys buy $3000.00 guns right off the bat but there are more of us that can afford a $50.00 to $300.00 gun. Also I might add that I have tuned many of those so called high end guns and there you go adding another $150.00 to the cost of that gun..:)
lit is a personal thing with individuals. If everyone thought the same then it would be pretty boring...:)
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For those who love to tinker, and love the challenge of making something better, it can be a wonderful hobbie. But not everyone has the skill and equipment to be tinkering.
Then there is a mind set with some folks that there is a savings to be had by buying cheap and having work done to the cheap item to make it the equal of the expensive item, but it doesn't always work out. .
And I've seen it happen with other things too - like cars, bikes, boats, furniture, homes, etc.
Most often it's a novice who figures the expensive gun, car, boat, whatever, is too expensive, so they will save by getting the less expensive one knowing it will need some work, but they don't realy know how much the final costs are going to be.
In my line of work, I repeatedly see guys passing up fully restored antique cars and buying rust buckets they can get cheap, thinking they can also restore them cheaply too. After awhile they find they're putting way more money into the rust bucket than the fully restored one was going to cost them. The sad part is that much of the work they've done on the rust bucket is poorly done so they wasted even more. When they try to unload the rust bucket for what they feel they put into it, they get another rude awakening.
Paul.
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As one of the guilty folks and also a relative newb I'll take a stab at an answer.
My first springer was a Whisper. THEN I found out about the magic golden trigger. It kinda miffed me about having to buy it, but when I got it, saw the results, I didn't mind the price. I thought that the money I spent on the Whisper, trigger, and the Leapers Scope and nice mounts was a lot of money. However, that gun hits everything it shoots at!
The next gun I got was a 350 magnum. Now I wasn't ready for that gun. However now that I'm used to it, it shoots like a dream and was worth every penny I spent on it. So then I have basically two medium priced guns.
After that I went on a binge of cheaper guns. Why? Well if I really needed to hit something I could use the other two :). I bought a cheap refurb Air Hawk, which to be honest, has been a disaster. I've spent as much or more money on it than I spent on the Whisper. Between new springs, MM tune, etc, I have a lot of money in that gun. While it is better, I wish I had spent the money to get a better base gun like a "real" 34.
The next few guns are all AR1000 clones. I've learned to take them apart with varying results. However I like them and like how hard they hit as I like magnum guns.
If I had to do it over again, I'd probably just own three guns; my 350, a 34, and I want a Beeman R-9 or a Cometa. I don't regret the money I've spent on cheaper guns as I've learned a lot about what I like and what I would do in the future. My TF 89 is a great shooter and I don't have much money at all in it. The gun I regret the most is the Air Hawk. I've spent too much money on it with little results.
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My personal arsenal currently stands at 10 air guns. And they go from a $40 Daisy Power Line in .177 up to my most cherished RWS 350 Feuerkraft Pro Compact. I have a Discovery in the group as well. And I enjoy shooting each and every one of them. They are all better at some things than some of the others are. I’ve modified each and every one of them in one way or another, and they all shoot better then the day I bought them. When I get a little bored with shooting one I just pick up a different gun and shoot if for awhile. I’m sure there are more airguns in my future, some cheap and some expensive.
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If the choice is between shooting or not shooting then buy an inexpensive gun, but I believe Bhawanna's question was why buy a bunch of cheap guns when you could take the same money and buyone or two upper level, quality rifles. While I understand Gene's response, I think it misses the mark. I agree with Gene that if you can't afford a higher end rifle then get what you can afford and add to it as you can afford to do so. But why do that over and over again?Four reasons I suppose: One is impulse control. The rifle sure looks purty, it's cheap and I can afford to buy it now, never thinking that saving those pennys might allow the purchase a much better rifle in the future; Second, some people just like to tinker and it's easier to justify messing with several $50-100 rifles thanbuying one $600 rifle you are to afraid to touch; Third variety can be the spice of life. I couldn't afford a stable of cars but I could afford to scour the paper for used motorcycles and now have a stable of them (one nice car just wouldn't do the trick.) Fourth, once you buy one inexpensive rifle the money that might have gone towards a better rifle is gone...so rather than wait we allow history to repeat itself.
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The answer is simple. Each person has his own reasons. Mostly it's because they want to. I have a good many guns, including rimfires. I see some pretty nice old pieces that would cost me $1200 - $1500. If I sold all of my rimfires, I could afford one. Am I going to go after that "pearl of great price"? Nope. That's not why I bought the guns I have. I don't know why so many air gunners feel that they have to "step up" to the "next level" in air guns. Sorry, but there are only so many Whiscombes in the world.
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Well Roger,
I have always owned at least one working air gun for the last 53 years. These varied from Daisy and Crosman to Sheridan's. I enjoyed plinking and pest control with an appropriate air gun. I have never needed an expensive air gun until I began 10 meter shooting with an air gun. 40 years ago, $600.00 was a whole lot of money for a B.B. gun, and if you wish to be the best that you can be, you must have the best equipment. After I became as proficient as I wanted, I moved on to 4 position .22 caliber shooting and traded up to a match powder burner.
Now all that I can do on a regular basis is play with my air guns, so I splurged and bought a couple that will keep me happy, and last the rest of my life ! These two cost more money than I spent for my M1A SuperMatch, some years ago. But they do the job very well and look OH! SO! SWEET! and make me happy every time I pick them up !
If my heart didn't fail me, I never would have bought these two wonderful air guns. I would still be shooting powder burners ! I love the smell of burning smokeless powder in the morning, it smells likeVICTORY !!!! But I would still be shooting my Sheridan .20 caliber for fun and pest control !
To make it short: You buy whatYOU need, and what YOU want, to make this hobby enjoyable !
Bill
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I fly fish with bamboo and started off buying okay to junk fly rods. made some mistakes, made some great buys and learned a lot about what makes a great casting fly rod. now with AG's, I had tim at mac 1 resurrect my old, almost new Mk 1 (shoots great), but had read about 1377's and all the mods, seemed like a good one to get to try some stuff out. then picked up another 1377 at a swap meet which I rebuilt, along with a cr 140 that tim is redoing. then got a cr 160 at auction cheap that i will reseal and have a 392 (cheap) coming that needs a stock refinish. All in I have maybe 500 into it all. I will shoot and otherwise play around with these guns for a while. if my interest sticks I will sell a few and upgrade. if it doesn't, then I will sell or keep them for the kid. for me, it's about the learning. it may have been smarter to buy one 400 gun and scope, but I would not have discovered nearly as much about the hobby. btw - the example I'd like to follow is Nick of anotherairgunblog. always exploring
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Well, I now have 18 air rifles and 7 air pistols. I dont think any of them cost up to $300. The ones I have shot semi-regularly are hard hitting and accurate. My Quest 1000 [ $89. ] and my Winchester 800x [ $66. Turkish Hatsan ] put holes in my barbque [ not a cheap thin wall one ] at 12-15 yards, passing through the target.Yes there are FAR better airguns out there, and they have better triggers, cock smoother, etc., but the end result is the same.There are also a lot of posts about problems with the higher end guns too. I have shot a Diana model 34. WOW. BEAUTIFUL functioning airgun.Smooth, had a trigger mod, was tuned, etc. Had a black synthetic stock.Not too impressive in the looks department. About as pretty as my Crosman 1077! [ which is not pretty, compared to my other airguns but pretty doesnt make it shoot better.]I put that rifle on my want list, but not at the top.It wouldn't out perform most of my " cheap" springers.I dont personally know if they tend to last longer, springs, seals etc.I hope so for the price. I also like to collect things. No, there is not much resale value in my collection, but I didn't buy them to sell. I have old collector card sets that are worth $$$$$, but only to somebody willing to pay what they are worth.I don't need, nor can I afford a $600. -up airgun. I have absolutly no desire to go to the "dark side" either. Besides, it's a whole lot easier to say, " Honey, look at this airgun! It's cool, and only costs $250.!!" Than, "Hey Honey,........ $650.!!" All airguns are a great way to enjoy our sport / hobby. Get the $600. gun if you want / can. There is nothing wrong with that at all. I only plink at this point, and will hunt this summer if the oppertunity arises. Look in the Hunting gate and see what Long Island Hunter and Shadow are dropping animals with. Those two guys, along with Johnny Quest and others are a GREAT inspiration to me and they dont always use high end guns.
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Wow, now look at what Roger and me started here..:) Roger is one of our oldest members. I always love to give him a dig whether it is on the forum or in person. I know he has been mad with me and called me bad names but we have one thing in common and that is air guns..:)
I simply wanted to make it clear that it is ok to buy a cheap gun. In allot of cases that may be all the money that one could afford at that time or like some they do not want to save and wait..:) I want it now so what will $100.00 buy me..:).
Roger is a classy guy and you can tell just by talking to him. He is a straight shooter and is very weird like me...:) But I will always tease and poke him as long as we both visit the GTA..:)
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This is a great post! I was not offended nor meant any offense by it! I like the question and enjoy reading the answers. Good job Roger!!
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I love all my airguns....as long as they're accurate. So far, I've been very lucky with my purchases...no returns and everyone is accurate up to a point. The PCPs can reach out pass 70 yards easy....I think they can possibly reach out to 100 yards. This summer I'll try them out at the gun range. The cheaper Crosmans and Gamos are good up to 40 yards....a few of them are good out 60 yards....so I'm also very happy with them. The Crosmans and Gamos only have Charlie Da Tuna's gold trigger....no professional tune.
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Why worry about what other people do with their own "grown up money" they "worked for themselves" and can "spend anyway they like". It's an exercise in futility and frankly none of anyone else's business. If everyone in America bought what some Wisenheimer told them they had to buy it would be a very boring place. Perhaps Obama will appoint an Airgun Police Agency? There would only be one company producing a singular product some "Hitler want-to- be" convinces us we need or should have absent any discussion whatsoever. George Orwell would be proud of this thread. I'm going to buy another cheap Chinese air rifle just so I can say I'm a nonconformist. If uniformed farm animals are knocking on my door tomorrow I know I have went too far with my association with Chinese air guns. Oh woe is me! Come on guys...get real! Live and let live!
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If I have to spend high dollars for an airgun that has to be sent out to be tuned by a professional before it shoots well, I don't see buying one. If I had to spend like that, I wouldn't even fool with airguns, I'd be buying powder burners, or restoring old tractors.
The "low-end" guns I have will serve my purpose just fine. I see postings on several airgun forums of groups shot out of various high-end rifles with high-end scopes and to tell the truth, most aren't that much better than what I'm getting from some of my low-end rifles. I don't send my guns out, I do the tunes and mods myself. That's another part of the hobby that entertains me. Doing the work myselfalso saves money allowing me enjoy this and other hobbies even more. I will say that I've gotten away from buying Chinese springers though. I have been buying mostly American made Crosman products or vintage airguns.
I cannot come to grips with the idea of spending a huge lump sum of money and only getting one gun. That's like saying I could have taken the money we spent on my car and my wife's car and bought one really super nice car. Duh, but one car would not be enough. Same goes for guns. :)
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Who really cares what another has for an airgun? Bhawanna has stirred the ' Tempest in a Tea Pot'. And as far as that goes, so what? At least he made a post that "stirred' the silent majority.
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The biggest reason is cost. I have 9 air rifles the most expensive was my Talon PCP but most are Chinese springers. I would have to save for about 5 years to purchase a $1000-1500 air rifle. Forget that crap. I have loved air rifle shooting for over 10 years. I honestly get bored shooting the same rifle over and over. I enjoy shooting spring air rifles the best. I really look forward to getting a new air rifle either on my birthday or at Christmas once a year. I usually spend months online reviewing the offical and unoffical pros and cons of the rifle I research and select. I have been to Field target events and shot the Air Arms Evolution 2s and the custom tuned Tx 200s. They were accurate and had nice triggers but I also found things I didn't like such as balance of the rifleo or comfort of shooting. I would really be *_*_*_*_*_*ed if I blew $1000 on something I wasn't 100% satisfied with it. I really don't have a "favorite" air rifle. I shoot by B-40 probably the most but I get tired of the small loading port after a few hundred shots and will switch to one of my brake barrels or side levers. To be honest of the people I have met that call themselves air gunners none of them have just one gun. Yes if I could afford it I would have $4000-$5,000 in air rifles but I could not afford my boat, fishing supplied, astronomy equipment, bicycles etc. And my feathers were not ruffled by your inquiry it was a good question. I call it good since any post of any kind that can generate more than 5 replies has been worth reading and responding to. Bhawanna do you own any Chinese air rifles?
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Excellent thought provoking question Roger. And from the responses, you can see there's no ONE answer to that question. For me, the main purpose of airgunning is the quest to bring together the shooter, the gun and the ammoto make the perfect match. Everything in between is part of the quest to find that elusive combo. And there are good AG's out there from $60 to $600 to thousands. And as Gene said, some folks have deeper pockets than others.
Some of us are tinkerers. I like to buy a gun that appeals to me, see how it fits me and how it performs. If it's not for me, it's gone. If it has potential, I'll tear into it and see if I can make it better. And if it works out to be an enjoyable piece, I'll spend a few more bucks for bling-bling or functional accessories. Like others have stated, this type of purchase was not for financial investment but an investment in YOUR enjoyment. And no, you won't get back what you put into it, as far as money. But the hours of pride and enjoyment are as they say, priceless. And I find itvery hard to evenTHINK of experimenting with a $600 gun. (http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif)
Then there are the guns you have a personal history with, like my 1967 Revelation PumpMaster 760. MOST folks would just toss one of these aside and not give it a second thought. But,I worked all summer mowing lawns to save the money to buy this one new. I would and have thrown more money into it because it means something to me. And you can buy a replica of this one at Wally World today for $26. A REPLICA, not even the same gun. But just wanted to throw that example out there.
Some day I hope to own a higher end AG. I've personally been drooling over an Evanix Blizzard and the MRod. And with those comes an assortment of support equipment that will also call for an investment. With the current economy andmy financial position, most of my hard earned money has to go toward necessities and obligations like food, mortgage, car payments, utilities and such. I can occassionally squeeze in a few bucks to feed my AG habit when I do a computer job on the side. My "MAD" money. (http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif)And to feed the AG junkie habit, it's VERY hard to wait, put money back, wait, watch and hear others talk about their guns, wait some more and possibly lose all you saved if an emergency comes up. So I buy what I can when I can.
There's all sorts of answers and reasons, just like the endless variety of people in the world. But thanks for generating a thought provoking post!!!!
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
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H*ll, - I drive a 13 year old Explorer, NOT because I can't afford to replace it with something more expensive. I drive it BECAUSE it runs like a freakin' top, and can take me anywhere I want to go!! - A newer & "nicer" car would cost a bundle to buy, add monthly payments or knock a hole in a bank account, cost a bundle to insure, cost another bundle to register and NOT run any better, and can't go anywhere my 13 year old car goes. - Case closed, ...
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as for me personally. i just like to conquer the cheaper guns, making them shoot as good as possible, and then move on to the next one. i have shot the brittish webs, r-1, r-9, and rx-2 - and yes, they are nice. the younger guy at airguns of arizona told me his favorite springer was his r-7 (he was a pcp guy - that was before i was 'enlightened'). it's just like it's always been, the way i understand it - back in the days of lewis and clark and nepolian, good airguns were for the elite sportsmen (guys w/ extra money). a good gun today costs as much as an o.k. running car, anywhere between $500-$2000. now i have this question for those of who have the nicer HW's, patriots/crow mags, air arms ................ do they work perfect everytime you get it from the closet or safe ?? or does it take a few shots to warm up - or - do you have to give your scope a click or two after you know damn good and well it was perfectly zero'ed last time you were shooting it ?? damn thing better be perfect if i spend $500-$700 on it. and if it was perfect, i would be disturbed that there's nothing left to upgrade or fine tune. i have a usual limit of $250. got my new .22 rws 350 pro-compact "R" stamped for about $320 - good mount and scope came w/ it. i put that vortek kit in it. it's great now. $400 + all the labor of trying to get that kit to do what it was supposed to do, and all the 1000-2000 break in pellets. it's my favorite .22 cal right now. if i had to shoot in competition, i'd use my vintage 1986 rws 36 - it's really smooth w/ the vortek kit in it, but i lost 50 fps w/ that tune kit. it's my favorite .177. diana is very hatrd to beat as far as value for your money. i have several 2000psi crosman/benji's that i perfect andn sell - the carbines based on the custom shop 2250's are so light and accurate and powerful and easy to shoot......it's like cheating or something to me. i hunt w/ my powertuned disco - it's light, too. but the carbines are under 4 lbs. i believe the biggest obstacle i find when selling these turkish webleys is that the other 95% of the pellet/bb gun crowd has this idea of plastic pump-up bb/pellet guns engrained into their minds - so paying $200 for a pelletgun is just too overwhelming for them (these are the people i give my card to at the local sporting goods stores when i'm in there buying .177 and .22 cphp's or sheridan pellets. one good point about these $500-600 springers - especially the english webleys and HW's - they retain a good resale value. i'm about to purchase a stoeger x10 w/ wood stock from academy - $99 - 1000 fps carbine. i'll post for feedback first. but if it sux - i'll take it back. this america. if something sux you're supposed to get your money back for it, then if it breaks after the 30-day warranty, stoeger has a two-year warranty. i'l know right away if it sux. there's my 2 cents. - paul d self.
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I used to have the ooooooooo wow look at this it's a great deal and is so cool. Pretty much I was a woman with cooler hobbies. Lol. Now I research and reasearch till I know I have gotten the best deal. I have wanted an rws gun for years just ordered it Friday. I researched my truck for almost 6 months then drove 2 hours to get it. Just the way I have learned to be now. Sometimes I lose out because I waited to long. And I have definatly learnd u get what u pay for. 200-300 for a good gun is better than 6 Chinese ones from the flea market at 30 each. I have 5 Chinese springers and several pump guns that get shot by the kids and friends more than me. I would definatly recommend sit wait and save up to get a great gun that will impress you than say ooooooooo pretty and blow a little bit of money on one that will never add up even after all the extras. My $30 Chinese ones are coming in hany though as test beds for me to learn on without killing a $300 gun.
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When all the talk about this subject is done it will simply come down to each airgunner and what pleases him or her. For me it's sitting in my airgun room and looking over all my gals and smiling. It may be one of my cheap B3's that have countless hours spent tinkering and spending a little extra on or one of the higher end shooters that have received some TLC also. No dollar signs come to mind but a satisfied feeling that I put some of myself into all of them and that feeling is priceless. :)
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Yes, I would love to have a really fine, expensive air rifle, and I eventually plan to get one, when I can decide what I want! But for the present it is more economical and satisfying to try out the various variations without spending a lot of money. I love my Benji 397 and it is suitable for my basement and garage shooting and I don't have to spend time driving to the range. At home I can and do shoot almost every day. My powerful break barrel springer still is almost impossible for me to shoot consistent groups at 30 feet in the basement or outdoors at the gun club at 25 yards or more. I always get one out of five apart from the group by .5 in. Why should I lay out big bucks for a magnum springer that is too hard to cock and too hard to shoot? I have a side lever springer on order (its still back ordered) and I want to try an under-lever springer too. Maybe I will decide that the under lever is a pain to load. At least I can roll the pellets into my partially customized 1377 with little difficulty. I don't mind pumping either my Benji or 1377, both of which are accurate enough for me and my present skill level. For a more expensive rifle I am leaning towards a HW30s. I'll stay away from the Beeman label R7 for now until the situation with Beeman gets more settled. It has been years since I owned a CO2 powered pistol, but I do want to try a QB78-9 varient too sometime. Only after that will I consider a PCP, but for that it is not just the cost of the rifle but also a hand pump and then fittings for bulk filling come later. A retiree on a fixed income has fewer options. Maybe I could have just as much fun with a sling shot! :D
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I couldn't put it any better than my buddy ED (Shadow) did :)
In my collection I have inexpensive shooters, I have middle of the road shooters and I have some high end shooters but I get the same enjoyment out of all of them :) I hope to be able to buy a few more high end rifles in the years to come but I know I will also continue to purchase some cheap chicom shooters and lower end rifles as well as I just really enjoy each rifle for what they are....
Jeff
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It's actually better to start out on a cheaper springer with recoil, to learn how to shoot before you move up to a PCP airgun. That way you you pick up good shooting habits,trigger pull,follow through, and the correct holding positions to stabilize your gun while shoooting..
Where as if you went and purchased and EASY to shoot PCP NO recoil airgun first, which you can hold any position and still be accurate. you pick up BAD shooting habits. In theory it's better to start from the bottom and work your way up... So like said earlier you have to crawl before you walk, or even run for that matter. :emoticon:
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some people just didn't get the original post.....it wasn't a put-down on chinese guns or why do people buy them. as always with post some people try to read into it more than the intent so controversy can start....that was not the intent. .....it said: " why do people buy "MULTIPLE" (5 to 10) of them"....i even stated a "point-in-case". some people got it and i appreciate their responses. it doesn't have anything to do with "DEEP POCKETS" (GENE). and yes i have owned a chinese airgun and it served it purpose. this is not a throw-down on people's economic situations which some you tried to make it but just an inquiry as to why some people spend a $1000.00 on chinese guns.
ps.....GENE IS A LUNKER-TURD WITH CORN...HA!!!
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I agree with you Darius. My first springer was S1K and it took me almost 2 years to master shooting it. I stuck with it and finally was able to shoot inside a one inch circle at 30 yards pretty consistantly. After that I could shoot just about any springer with reasonable sucess.
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Well Roger it looks like we have sucessfully answered all aspects of your original post "why do people buy MULTIPLE $89-$150 low-end airguns".....:) :)
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"........When all the talk about this subject is done it will simply come down to each airgunner and what pleases him or her. For me it's sitting in my airgun room and looking over all my gals and smiling. It may be one of my cheap B3's that have countless hours spent tinkering and spending a little extra on or one of the higher end shooters that have received some TLC also. No dollar signs come to mind but a satisfied feeling that I put some of myself into all of them and that feeling is priceless. .........."
Well put Ed !!!
That last line could be used as part of a definition of what a "hobbie" is.
Paul.
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$89 to $150! I knew it, just a bunch of high dollar snobs!
Let's see, I have been through 2 x QB57s, an XS-B3-1, 2 x Cummins Tool B3s, and a Daisy 990, all well under 89 bucks. I traded a $55 shotgun for my Blue Streak (but it was in 1982). Heck, my 1377 was only $50-something.
I consider 89-150 the intermediate range!
And seriously, it is fun to take something and make it a little better. It also just makes my day to find a genuine bargain, like a $50 POS that can shoot and hit stuff. It funnest of all when you have some high dollar stuff to compare it to!
Gee, never had a Fast Deer...
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Think some,being new to airguns (like me) start out buying and adjust as learning curve improves...my first was an 850 CO2 .177 ($239)....then a R9 DG .22...850 tuned CO2 .177...then a 850 HPA .177 and Discovery .22.... latest:
Dominator HPA .22...30 FPE
Sheridan .20 cal ($100)
Crosman Custom shop 2300KT ($118 )
Did I mention a Logun S16 .22...???
lol...
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For me its financial and a tinkering thing. I have a tuned 180 dollar gun with a 15 dollar mount and a 65 dollar scope that shoots as well as some of the high dollar guns I've owned. The only nice gun that would could buy tune and scope it and not choke on it would be the RWS34. The R9 with a tune mount and nice glass and you @ 900 dollars and have one gun that must do it all. So I would say it really depends on the individual. If I had deep pockets it may be a different story.
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I agree with the idea of spending the money on the "high end" air rifles. They are well made, they won't break, and you really don't need to "tune" them. Also they hold their value! I found out. I needed some money, and sold three "high end" RWS, and Beeman air rifles...for more than I paid for them!! Look in gun shop fro used air rifles. I bought a Beeman R-1 for $145 in a gun shop....sold same gun yesterday for $400!
Douglas George
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I don't know why a person would purchase multiple cheep air guns and put alot of money into each, instead of buying 2 expensive ones. I guess it's like a person buying alot of really cheap beer instead of just a small amount of expensive beer. They just want to feed their addication without breaking the bank. Most of us here are air gun addicated, I know Iam. So,,, I buy both, but I refuse to put an additional $150 into a $150 air gun just to make it shoot as good as a $300 one. For example, I have a B-12 out of the box that cost about $70 and shoots really well with the right pellet. I went through 8 different pellets before I found one that the B-12 really likes. I liked the size and moderate power so well I purchased an HW 30s that cost $300. It shoots all 8 different pellets almost into the same hole. I not putting any money into the B-12 to try to get it to group as well as the HW but I still enjoy shooting it. My name is Chuck and I'm an Air Gun-aholic.
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Well Rog,,,,,, Ya got the "Pot Stirred" with this one!!!!!!!:p Ive had em all. I LOVE em all!! Im looking at J,s Air Arms S-410 & my own custom tuned 35 Ft Lb Marauder on the pool table right now. The back field is FULL of crows eating the new grass seed. Im heading out to my shop & grab my J Woodcock tuned Quest 800 (22 cal) with my custom stock I spent 2 days building & bust up the crows lil party!!!!!!8) ROFLMBO!!!! Who loves Ya buddy??? :D Timbo.
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LOL Chuck, at least you are not in denial.... hehehe
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I'm new here and don't want to ruffle any feathers but....I have this nagging question that I thought I'd throw out there. How long do these “cheap†units last verses the “high end†units. So it seems rather simple to me. If you divide the dollar amount spent on the unit in question by the number of months the unit lasts then deduct the value of the unit at the time of sale the answer will be the value of owning that gun. I am not even considering the fact that most “cheap†units will need work after a number of shots. Example original cost $900 divide by 240 months (20 years) you will have spent $3.75 per month. Now take that $250 unit divide by $3.75 and you need to keep that unit for 66 months (5 ½ years) to reach the value of the “ high end†unit. Not including any repairs of any kind in either example, this would have to be added to the original purchase price and redivided by the number of months owned. Now at the end of the useful life of these units which would have a greater value. I think theâ€high end†unit will be a very low cost per month hence, a better value.
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i'm loving this post...i should stir crap up more often...ha!! i think the next post will be about cheap glass....LOL!!! :emoticon: almost 2400 views in 48 hours?...gotta be a record of some sort.... :D
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Now Roger, that could bite you in the behind you know...:)
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I'm a moderator on another board, - anyone "stirring things up" gets warned once, then banned.
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I've been there done that and now i'm giving alot of my guns away to my family and friends and getting mid range price guns (RWS)and that scope i got from you Roger it works very well on my 460 mag.I'm still going to get me another stoeger(low end rifle)it's the x-10 sythetic model these guns are a blast to shoot and reliable.
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Perhaps I took the message the OP was stating the wrong way. And my references to animal farm were about control...telling others what they should or should not do. I'm a former police officer and I am of the opinion that we have so many laws it is almost impossible for an average person to go an entire day without violating some asinine law/infraction. For example, its against city ordinance for children to ride their bikes on the sidewalks of Vincennes, Indiana. The children are suppose to ride their bikes in the street...even the 5-10 year old children. Thats one law I never enforced and I do not understand the thinking behind it. But a handfull of people wanted their way and they got it. My wife is the current IRS territory manager for the states of Indiana, Illinois and Kentucky. Talk about convoluted ever changing laws. The tax code is a huge complicated joke because everyone wants an exception...an edge. Fairness has nothing to do with it in my humble opinion. So what does my rant have to do with cheap air guns? Well I'll tell ya...I enjoy them as a hobby and cannot understand why someone would wish to ridicule or judge me because of my decision to purchase a make or model air rifle they have no interest in. I'm sure there are people out there who would call an individual "stupid" or "crazy" to spend $500 to $1,000+ on an air rifle. And they would be just as wrong to judge and ridicule a person for spending large amounts on an air rifle as the person who judges another for spending modest amounts. It's their money and they should be able to spend it anyway they want without putting up with anyone's crap (except perhaps the wife's :0). Kind of reminds me of the PETA people who want to have cattle and hog farmers prosecuted for cruelty to animals...does that make a a terrible person because I ate a McDonald's quarter pounder today?
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Roger, I told you that you had made a post that would stir the "Silent Majority". All I can say is atta boy. The Tempest has landed. And folks, lets remember that this is a friendly group discussion. The world will not change one bit as a result.
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Bhawanna, I guess I'm one of those guys, so I guess I'll tell you why I own 5 "low end" guns.I'm retired and I live in Illinois. Gun laws are strict. You cannot buy anything that shoots above 700 fps without a FOID card. While I was waiting for my FOID card to be approved. I bought a Mendoza RM200, .22 cal. It's a fun gun, shoots 500-600 fps, with a great trigger. Cost me $99.00 and worth every penny. My best friend is a retired cop. He doesn't like to fish but he does like to shoot. I picked up a couple Crosman Ravens, a youth sized gun that shoots 600 fps, for us to use plinking off the back deck. One day we shot them for 3 straight hours. They cost $60 each. Lots of fun, little cost. I got my FOID card in the mail a month later and then I was able to buy my Crosman Quest 1000 and my Quest 800, .22. $230 total for the two guns. Put in a Charlie GRT-III trigger and you're ready to shoot rabbits. My most recent purchase was a Crosman G1. Even with the stock trigger, it's a tack driver, at $99. So, eleven months into the hobby, I own 5 low end guns. I work on them myself, that's half the fun. Crosman has great customer service. I can pick up the phone and get warranty parts shipped at no charge. Why does anyone do anything? I enjoy shooting. I don't need to spend thousands of dollars to do it. Some people need and want only the best that money can buy. I guess I'm just not one of those people. When it comes down to it, why spend a bunch of money for a gun that may be more accurate when accuracy really depends on the shooter more than the gun. In the end, it doesn't matter one bit to the rabbit.
Thanks for starting a great discussion,
BWANA
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You guys cuzins????
LOL
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I don't think so. BWANA is a nickname I picked up about 30 years ago from a friend at work. You know, "The great white hunter".
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Well, I guess I am one of those people. I purchased a 1377 for about $60. I put on the carbine stock, a steel breech, scope mount, Bug Buster scope, the black pump handel and now have about $200 in a $60 air gun. Hey guys, pleeeease don't tell anyone.
Chuck,
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I feel sorry for you BWANA. You touched on part of what my last rant tirade was about. I live right across the Wabash river in Vincennes, Indiana. If I take my RWS 350 across the river I can be throwed in jail. The way I understand it an air gun cannot have a bore bigger than .18 and cannot exceed 700 fps unless you have a FOID card. Illinois is a great state but I disagree with many of the gun laws it's citizens are burdened with. Do citizens have to register the air guns with the state also?
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Well lets see some pictures of the sweety, Chuck..:)
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Yes, you register the gun when you buy it. When I bought my G1 at Dick's sporting goods it took 15 minutes to do the paper work and I had to wait 24 hrs to pick up the gun. You would think I was buying a cannon. I'm not sure about Illinois being a great state. We're broke and the past three Governors are in jail or on their way to jail. Because of the gun regulations, the selection of airguns that are available is limited. I'm done buying guns, unless I stumble upon a great buy on my travels out of state.
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don't feel bad, chuckster - look what i do : buy a $80-100 co2 carbine (2250 rat-catcher w/ steel breech). then put a longer tube w/ disco air system on it ($70). then fine tune it w/ some custom parts ($40). after i pit a decent scope on it ($50-70). now, it's nearly a $300 pistol - or carbine - that shoots 20 ftlbs and gets 20 shots. now it's gone from a $90 co2 gun to a smoking hot pcp that weighs 4 lbs. now it's a $300 gun. when i first got back into this, i would see all this crap about crosmans and people putting these custom parts or extra crosman parts on them......i was telling myself, "why do people do these things ?". "why don't they just get a nice european gun ?". "why are they messing w/ this daisy / crosman crap ?" "don't they understand why we enjoy adult airgunning ?". you know.... "quality precision" !?!!?? . now i comprende. - paul d self in ft.worth.
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bhawanna , you REALLY instigated a huge 'pow - wow'. jolly-good , though !! cheers or take the peace pipe , or what ever. rock on, by brotha.
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I certainly didn't mean to imply the politicians of Illinois are great. However, I know many fine people who live in the land of Lincoln. We Hoosiers have made our share of mistakes when it comes to electing the wrong person. Perhaps we should all make political candidates take a polygraph to test them for sincerity prior to an election. I'll not hold my breath...congress will *_*_*_*_*_* all over themselves pushing forward legislation forbidding that. I went back and read my previous comments and perhaps I was a bit too harsh. Just because I do not agree with Bhawanna on this subject doesn't mean he is not entitled to his opinion and as an American he has every right to express himself. Safe shooting!
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Some things come to mind about airgun purchases/choices...depends on type of shooting...(Plinking,10 meterTarget,FT,Benchrest,Hunting for starters)
Backyard plinking...makes sense to buy low end..
Hunting..many good choices at various prices..
Competition..wide open...you can go low price and tune...or go big buck and shoot it outta da box...I shoot FT and 50 yard benchrest...both with tuned,lower priced air rifles and compete against custom $2000 match USFT rifles...and high buck Euros,like FX,Daystate etc...and i'm doing this at 1/4 the cost...
To each his own...
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crazyhorse - 3/2/2010 9:40 AM
Backyard plinking...makes sense to buy low end..
Of course that is just an opinion. I like backyard plinking with an R7, HW50s, P1 or an R9. We all have opinions.
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I appreciate your cost of ownership analysis. I have noticed, though, that many who buy high end guns tend to sell them to another shooter and may not keep them for 5 and 1/2 years. At my age, or any age for that matter, I may not have 5 and 1/2 years! None of us knows! For most of my other purchases I tend to want to buy quality items that will last me a long time. Finding true quality at a fair price is the problem with all the advertising hype out there. Otherwise, I buy items that will do the task at hand even if I know they are cheap. Seldom used tools from Harbor Freight or similar outlets come to mind. Since a nice dinner for two can cost $60, and I will be hungry 24 hours later, an air rifle that costs the same will usually, but not always, last a lot longer and give some level of satisfaction for a longer period of time.
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..we all have 'opinions"....and the OP asked for them..
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Now, that's mo' better..............I'm starting to feel the love again. Was looking a bit jaundiced for a bit early on........or at least that's what I was told....................early on...............ast year.
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Nothing here---just my contribution to the quest for the world's longest airgun thread :emoticon:
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Gotta keep this going. If I'm going to pay $500+ it's gotta spit out more than pellets or be more fun than being 18 and naked!
But then I do have $450 invested in my Drozd Blackbird... is it almost as much fun? Uh, if my memory serves me right, not even close.
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t165 - 3/2/2010 6:51 AM
I feel sorry for you BWANA. You touched on part of what my last rant tirade was about. I live right across the Wabash river in Vincennes, Indiana. If I take my RWS 350 across the river I can be throwed in jail. The way I understand it an air gun cannot have a bore bigger than .18 and cannot exceed 700 fps unless you have a FOID card. Illinois is a great state but I disagree with many of the gun laws it's citizens are burdened with. Do citizens have to register the air guns with the state also?
I live in Michigan and I had to register my Crosman1377. Air rifles don’t require registration.
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For the same reason I have bought several old cars and rebuilt them form the ground up ... the challenge.
It's not about getting your money back because I have lost money on every one, it's about taking something supposedly "inferior" and making it work just as well if not sometimes better than something "superior", it's about standing back and looking at it and saying to your self, "I did/made/rebuilt/built this. (choose your favorite word)
I recently bought an RWS 48 and yes it's way better quality and accuracy than my cheaper guns out of the box but there is not as much satisfaction to make it shoot better as it is with my cheaper guns.
For me it's about satisfaction and and most of all having fun.
There is no "thought process" just fun.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :emoticon: :emoticon:
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Boy oh Boy Roger,
You sure know how to stir up a hornets nest !
I can't figure what possessed you to even think of a question like this, but you sure got your answers !
And the answer is because they like what they buy, for the reasons they bought them !
Bill
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If you want to put money into "high-end" air rifles....get into "Big-Bore" PCP. Most guns are custom made, and you have tanks, guages, ect. But what a rush! 900 fps with a 45 cal 350-400 gr pellet. You can shoot groups at 300 yards! (Matches are shot at this range in TEXAS. And you can hunt big game with a Big-Bore PCP! Cool eh? Check out: bigboreairguns.com These are air rifles with a "Kick!"
Douglas George
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Hey,Roger! In my case,being unemployed and "living" off half of what I used to make when I had a job,I could not afford higher-end guns.I have a third Storm XT(other XT's returned to store) and one Ruger Airhawk that Timbo gave me for some reason or other. I reckon more guns are better,still trying to get wife to see my reasoning(never happen).However,I bet you and I could come up with some kind of trade sometime on that 1922 Springfield .22 if I ever decide to let it go,hmmmm? Remember that .22 ? I must find out what it is actually worth money-wise one day,for giggles and sh--s.Remember my promise to you. Take care,my friend Hutch