GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Airgun Gate => : larspawn March 19, 2010, 11:38:29 AM
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So Tom Gaylord is singing its praise. But I'd like an *unbiased opinion* ;-)
Yes, Tom knows his stuff but its hard to cut through the marketing to see if it really is like a Diana 27 or R7. For $130 I am tempted.
How is that funky two blade trigger that gives you two stages? At first I thought it was a safety ala Glock or S&W M&P.
So who got one that is willing to admit it?
What are your thoughts?
Andy Wong aka larspawn
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I like unbiiased opinions with the good the bad and the ugly..:) Well I have never heard ol that gun but that does not mean much...:) But they would be very hard pressed to manufacture a gun with the quality and accuracy as the R-7 for that price..:)
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Gene,
Here's is part 6 of his thread so you can link to 1-5.
Andy
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Probably a nice enough little gun but, please, don't expect the quality of a Diana 27 or R7. And the Diana shot a lot harder than 580 fps. It's a Mendoza and has the fiber optic sights as found on the RM600. Blog says it won't take the Mendoza peep, not a smart move on their part.
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RedFeather,
I think somewhere in there he says it is a RM10 or something like that. Assume smaller than the RM600.
The Mendoza peep is ok. I found the aperture is way too big. Also, it seems like it was designed for a barrel rail as opposed to dovetails. The "reach" isn't really enough to capture the dovetails well I have filed out a bit of the underside to give it room to clear the crown of the barrel. However, it fits quite nicely on target rails on my Winchester 425s and 427.
I've got a Williams/Beeman sport aperture coming to compare but I'm guessing it will be similar in geometry.
Anyway on to the Bronco. It is the rifle that Gaylord designed as a PA exclusive. Yes made by Mendoza. I've never had a Mendoza so thought maybe a Bronco is in order?
Strange how not one owner thread...
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According to Gaylord's latest blog, the Mendoza peep will NOT work on the Bronco. He said he will talk to them about it.
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RedFeather,
My comment about the Mendoza sight was in general. I think Gaylord was saying that the Mendoza peep on the Mendoza didn't work because you can't get elevation low enough. i would suppose that cutting it down like he did on the Williams sight would work too. Don't know for sure. My comment is my experience is a lot like others in that there isn't enough clearance between the dovetail cutout and the bottom of the sight to let it clamp to the tube well. So grinding some of the bottom of the sight body gives it more room to clear the top radius of the receiver tube. Hope that makes sense.
Andy
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I don't own one, but I thought this was a good video review of the rifle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RKSSd7RoJQ It looks like a good shooter, but the iron sights are inadequate. Hope this helps. snookman
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Snookman,
Thanks for the link. Seems pretty accurate. He didn't really say anything about the trigger. Hmmm.
Not to impugn Tom or Rick but they both get paid by Pyramydair who is the sole channel and owner of the rifle. So while they both seemed to be genuine in what they like it is hard to get a feel for their ability to truly give an order of magnitude on what they don't like. That's why I'm looking for "real Joe" reviews of this. I just find it odd that a new rifle comes out and pretty much nobody has one. I've seen just one review by a shooter. Maybe nobody wants an "all day shooter" like Tom says?
Andy
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If that's the video with the little kid, they could have edited it down to about thirty seconds. I don't mind these "YouTube Epics" but, man, that one had a lot of dead air. There might be a discussion of the Bronco on RimFireCentral.com in the Air Rifle section.
Just had a Mendoza 600, briefly, and the trigger wasn't bad for out of the box. Takes a bit of getting used to (where to put the finger each time).
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RedFeather,
Yeah that post on Rimfire was the only review I could find from someone that actually had to shell out their own $$ for it. Again I'm so surprised that nobody else has chimed in. I know when a new rifle hits there are tons of whackos like me that say I just have to have one.
I'm still looking for a Diana 24. I figure a fair price isn't much more than the Bronco. So why not buy the real deal.
So by the way you ready to sell your M24 yet? Even though I have the HW30s I'm still looking for a 24 to fill out the 423, 425, 427 collection.
Andy Wong aka larspawn
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I have a Mendoza RM 200 and the Bronco sounds just about like it. The double trigger is fine, very nice. Gamo should be so nice. It is accurate enough with the right pellet. Can shoot one hole with it, that is stack.... For target it is good out to about 15 yards, at 20 it is not consistant.
I might add that the Bronco may be a redressed RM 200
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I was tempted to try one out, also - and I usually give in to temptation. But this time, I sat back, and here's why:
If you read Gaylord's first post, he admits he gave an emphatic "no buy" to the early Bronco (so...it was already "designed"?), and then promptly forgot about it. Then, as he says: "many months later, when I was looking for a nice youth model, someone at Pyramyd Air said to me, 'What about the Bronco?' "
So he took another look, and sent it to "someone else" who reshaped the stock to more resemble a C1's (but not very much). And he suggested replacing horrible plastic sights with slightly less horrible metal ones.
Now, VOILA!, he claims to have "designed" the Bronco.
Really? Sanding down the stock and replacing the sights gets you designer credit? Hubris...
Now, to date, there have been 6 posts on the PA blog concerning the Bronco. Overkill...
It's a Mendoza. They make (some) okay rifles, but nothing to touch the Diana 27 or R7. It's all just a little too pushy and self-aggrandizing for my taste. I'm going to pass.
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Cole great catch on his blog on the bronco its all about buissness not the airrifle cause ill bet not one of them has one that they have bought ,its about money and the publicity they pull in toward purchases in these airrifles cause most of them spend top dollars and purchase airrifles worth much more than our whole arsenal unless u know them personally and been to there house to say otherwise ..get other airguninst like our best here and ill bet we will get a real honest opinons on most of there airrifles until then i will rather take the word of a member here then i would take from them ....its a buissness and they care less if we believe them or not as long they can lure the majority thats what matters to them .money,money ,money i have german,spainish,american,and to me i like chinese the b models cause they dont advertise like others do there merchandise speaks for themselves.beemans r great airrifles and no one can argue that and so r dianas,or english airrifles but when it comes to anything new no one can say anything but wait until the purchasers speak on there honesty.jorge
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Well Cole and Jorge, you basically said what was on my mind. While Tom is a legend in the airgun community he's kind of sold out (okay there I said it). He is on the payroll at Pyramyd and Rick basically does mulitimedia reviews for Pyramyd. So it is understandable that while I think these guys love airguns the no strings honest opinions of real Joes like us is what matters to me. Like Jorge said I trust the opinions of people who have to buy their own rifles over someone who doesn't...let alone works for the company that benefits from the sale of the rifles.
Now while I"m on the topic what's up with the Compasseco Airgun Guru? Not!
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While we are on the subject, what about paying good money for a product that has to be "tuned" to work properly. Historically bad triggers, rough on the inside, assembled where the seal is bad because of it. Overlubed or underlubed. If we paid some of these prices for other products we would return them and not buy them again.
Of the rifles that I took apart the best one on the inside was my Mendoza RM 200. The spring was polished on both ends as well as the inner parts, and the double trigger does not need attention to please. I am not standing up for Mendoza but just telling what I have seen. Now as for velocity they are way out of line on that.
Producers should start paying attention the the inside workings and triggers and do these inside polishing and whatever else to smooth them and not expect the buyer to perfect them.
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Hello everyone, my name is Brian and this is my first post here. I'm new to this forum but certainly not new to airguns. Some of you may know me or might have done business with me on another forum.
Ok, so I've had a Bronco for about a month now. During that time I have shot it quite a bit and concluded it is a nice little plinker for the price. The trigger is definitely the high point on this gun. It has a very light let off once the blades are aligned to form the trigger "blade". I clocked my gun at 514fps with Gamo match pellets. The guns is a very sedate shooter and seems rather easy to shoot at short ranges. I have about 7 yards in my garage where I shoot during the winter.
The sights are fine for me and what I'd expect for a gun in this price range.
I tried the Mendoza peep with the same results as the blog. Too bad he didn't write that part first, coulda saved me some time.
The othe posters in this thread hit the nail on the head regarding the designern originally passing on what is the current gun in a different stock.
Regarding the stock I have the original C1 and it handles better mostly due to the carbine barrel and what feels like a slimmer wrist.
I also own all the guns this one often gets compared to. R7, Diana 24, 25 and 27 to name a few.
In my opion the Diana 24 is the most similar in size and power. It's no suprise I prefer my 24 despite it's heavier trigger. The Diana just has an inherent charm that is lacking for me with the Bronco.
My bias is obvious so please consider it when reading my commments.
I'm loaning the Bronco to an interested friend so look for more feedback after the Findlay airgunshow in April.
Anymore questions just ask.
Thanks,
Brian
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WElcome Brian, nice to have you with us :)
I enjoyed your post very much as I've been curious about the gun as well. Will be looking forward to your future posts and again,,, Welcome
Jeff
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Welcome and thanks cause we needed a member with a honest opinon of this model .....jorge
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Welcome Brian,
Yes this is what I'm looking for and what the forums are about. Real experiences from real people. I was half tempted to buy one and "put it in the library". Meaning GTA members in good standing could "rent" it for $10 with the promise to keep it a couple weeks and then send to the next person on the list. Hmm would that work? Once 13 or 14 people have "rented it" we could then draw a name from those people and that person wins it! I think that would be pretty cool. So each person would in essence be buying a $10 chance and paying for shipping once. Hmmm would enough guys go for it?
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Andy if you want more specific info on the Bronco let me know. I wasn't sure if I addresed all of your questions.
I will add that at 40 inches it's bordering on being too long to be called a carbine. Fortunately the overall light weight helps to make it handle like it's a few inches shorter. The kicker is the muzzle brake has about two inches of dead space in front of the muzzle supposedly for better leverage when cocking. Who needs more leverage with 19lbs of cocking weight?
Anyway, if the mb was flush with the muzzle and the front sight was mounted on the brake you would be left with a true carbine that would work with the Mendoza peep.
There is no grub screw on the brake so it must be pressed or glued on.
Brian
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I think that would be an awsome idea!!!
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I think it is a SUPERB air rifle for $130 - great and VERY addictive to shoot. Here is my report:
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329635
I would say that it is handy, nice 'theme' design, accurate, easy to cock and shoot, fairly quiet, and the sights honestly work fine at 5m and 10m. On mine I use notch one at 10m and notch 2 at 5m - and I'm right ON.
If the trigger was a little lighter, it would be SUPER accurate. I can hold all shots in the 5 ring of a 5m target shooting at 10m - not bad for basement lighting and old eyes with open sights from the standing position - no bench for me.
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I know I'm a novice but here is some more:
I think it is a SUPERB air rifle for $130 - great and VERY addictive to shoot. Here is my report:
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329635
I would say that it is handy, nice 'theme' design, accurate, easy to cock and shoot, fairly quiet, and the sights honestly work fine at 5m and 10m. On mine I use notch one at 10m and notch 2 at 5m - and I'm right ON.
If the trigger was a little lighter, it would be SUPER accurate. I can hold all shots in the 5 ring of a 5m target shooting at 10m - not bad for basement lighting and old eyes with open sights from the standing position - no bench for me.
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Put me on the list for "renters"! Excellent idea.
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Guess folks not interested in 'real experience'...
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Thanks Brian, I just put one on the short list as a gift for a friend. Your experience is a plus in helping me make a decision!
thanks again, joe
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Brian,
Read your post. Very informative.
My curiosity is why nobody else seems to have bought one. Seems like a sweet spot. Not many springers in this FPE range.
Andy
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Guys - yes - I agree. I suppose there are a few more which are soft and slow shooting.
For me to put 2-3/5 in the black (5m tgt) at 10m seems pretty great to me - with totally open sights, old eyes and all. Then you figure that the pellet is in the barrel longer, etc., and its pretty darn good.
I DO think the trigger could be a little lighter.
The wood and bluing are VERY nice. Also, I note in later posts that it likes EL CHEAPO Crosman Premiers (<$7) at Walmart - BTW - same pellets as Premier HPs at PA. Problem is that they don't make a neet paper punch hole because of the speeds, so wadcutters aren't as good.
It loads like a charm. I may go for a scope soon, just to try it.
It is SOOOO relaxing to shoot a few rounds before you hit the rack!
It MAY be the (near) perfect basement/garage rifle.
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Here are typical groups a novice AG shooter can get at 10m open sights standing:
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2868090#post2868090
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You can add the Williams peep sight according to the latest Blog part. Just try to do a bit better job inletting the stock for the slide than Tom the Termite did. You can be sure he didn't lay out any simolians for THAT gun, LOL! Bubba, move over!
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Right after my original post I reached out to Pyramyd to see if they were interested in sponsoring a "traveling" rifle. The pitch was to get this rifle into the hands of 10-12 shooters who would each pay to have it shipped to the next guy. While they had it they would fill out how many shots, best pellet, accuracy and notes on the trigger, build, etc. I thought we could keep a thread open on it.
The object would ultimately be free publicity for the rifle. My request was sent off to the Marketing/Sales director. After reaching out some more I guess it is a no go. I never got an answer at all. Maybe they were worried what would be said? I also said I wanted to compare it against my Daisy 130a, HW30s, etc. Maybe this scared them off?
Anyway, I'm going to Findlay next week. If I see the Pyramyd reps I'll hit them up again.
Andy Wong aka larspawn
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Andy I'll be there too and will have my Bronco. I'm bringing it to give to my friend Jim for evaluation. I won't have a table but we can hook up if you want to check it out. If Pyramyd is there I imagine they will have some too. PM me if you're interested.
Brian
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its a rm200 with a different stock. thats the only difference. and if you get the adapter for the front sight(it raises it) the peep works fine.