GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Back Room => : Big_Bill April 08, 2010, 11:41:09 AM
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Tommie's books gut me to thinking about this.
What is the youngest age of a male, that you would consider a real "MAN" !
A "MAN" like your grandfather or uncle. Strong ideals, never backing down, hard as nails, you get my drift !
Bill
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Problem is that many so called 'Men' will never be a 'Man". No matter what thier age. They will never take responsibility for thier actions. Never fail to blame others for thier problems. You get the drift. It is difficult to pick a certain age. We have all known 8 year olds that had more positive character than many 30+ year olds.
And, "Man up " applies to females as well as males.
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I have to agree with you on that one Mike. Very well put!
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Bogey, you nailed it.Everybody is different. Age has nothing to do with it. My ex- wifes son was more of a man at age 7 than most of the "adult" males I have worked with. We still keep in touch and I love and respect him very much.
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When it comes to guns & toys. There are no men just old boys
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As I look around today, I haven't seen manymen that could hold a match to me ! And I couldn't hold that match to many of the "MEN" that I have known.
It seems that at least here in South Jerkey, the gene pool is running weak.
I have met some of the soldiers coming back to the Gulf Wars, and some of them, do seem to come up to the mark.
But if you never had the opportunity to meet one of these GREAT MEN ! How would you know ?
Bill
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well that is all the opinion in the eyes of the beholder
Alot of people would say my dad is a great man
I say hes a weak minded controlling POS
he tries to put the fear into ppl and make them think he is smart in reality he is weak minded and too high tempered
Rant over gotta go my 3 yr old just woke up
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I agree you cant put an age on whos a man and who's not. I have more respect for my 6 yr old than some "grown" men. The terd my X wife left me for, while I was in Iraq, was a "respected doctor" but when I finally cought him he sat on the foot stool and wouldent even look up. Just sat there staring at the floor while my x told him to sit there and not to answer me. What a little B word as my son puts it.
And its not just in Jersy or a particular job. I have active duty Marines that wont come to work on time and complain to the CO about you picking on them when you yell at them. I have Marines that complain about not getting enough time off while on a combat tour in Iraq! I was giving them 1 day off every 10 days, it was 1 person a day. plus if they needed time to go down to the other side of the base to call mommy or whom ever we let them. We gave them every chance we could to decompress and relax but they still complained to the Sgt Maj and dropped an anymouse that they wanted more time off. I took 1 day off in a 6 month deployment. I went early and stay after they were all gone. And I got told to give them more time off. SO every body got 5 days on 1 off, to be nice to them. F%$# being nice its COMBAT! I could go for pages about stuff but will leave it at this,
Some adults will never be men.
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So what is a man? war hero, family man, but hes Gay. Is he a man? Another guy acts like a woman, & thinks like a woman. Has also served his counrty. is he a man? 15 year old gang banger, drug dealer, killer. He takes care of his mother, brothers & sister. Makes sure they stay out of trouble & go to school. Man or just a punk? We all like to think of ourselves as men, but do we always toe the mark? Who are we to be judging anyone.
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Takin' care of business, putting "first things first" - gettin' up at 3: 00 AM to go to work if necessary, day after day, year after year. Protecting your family, to the very best of your ability, - financially or physically if necessary. Standing up for your true beliefs, religious and/or political, - and NOT being intimated by anyone, especially the pc crowd. - This can start at almost any age, hopefully early in life - but NOT at 5 or 6 years old. Yes, I do understand the point being made. NOT trying be be something you're not, - and that includes "sensitive". Most of todays "young men" have been raised by watching movies/sit coms and especially commercials that insult or put men down every five minutes. There has been a change in the last generation, and being 32 years old, living in your parents basement playing video games is NOT "putting first things first". - Drug dealers are not heroes, family men or anything but what they are, criminals.
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i have seen all sorts , but i quess you would say a true man is a man of honor no matter who he is race, *_*_*_*_*_*uality ,religion or path of life he has chosen.
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This is probably an eye of the beholder thing. I think alot of men can just exist without a clue for a multitude of reasons, they just dont get it, have lost the plot so to speak or feel like they are owed something! I think 21 is the normal age on paper "given the key of the door" if you like..Not everyone knows how to use it.
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Bil601 has a good point-BUT the definition of man is different to everyone. Honesty is in part of my definition. Doing all those things you mentioned is wrong and cant be made up for by taking care of mommy. Thats called an excuse. There is a right way and a wrong way to do something-thats not it. I need to stop with this one..
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Our fathers did more with les than we do now. They had it harder than we do now. Thier fathers had it harder than they did. does that make any of them more or less of a man. If someone does everything they can, but still cant take care of thier family. I he still a man for trying, or not a man for failing. How about a woman with nothing. Raises her childeren, works three jobs to put them through school. All the things you say makes a man. Is she a man? Another point is you dont have to be a good man to be a man. Even a bad man will do good things, & a good man will do bad things. The best of men will lie. We all do it. Is that the way a man should act? John Wayne Hard working, hard fighting, did what needed to be done, but never served in the military, & cheated on his wife. So who gets to say who is a man & who is not?
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Well Bil601,
John Wayne in his acting rolls, was my roll model ! But I was fortunate to know men that made him look tame.
One was Frances O'Rourke, a WWI veteran, that had a heart of GOLD and a stare that could warm your heart, or turn you to stone !
Another Was Bob Bone, a WW II vet that was a tough as steel, until you could get to know him, and then you could see his better side. One H3ll of a MAN !
Then there was my uncle Jack, He would silence a bar by just walking in ! He had that 10 mile gaze that can't be imitated.A lifer in the army, started off in the Marines, fighting in the Pacific Islands,then re-upped in the Army to go to Europe. He was in every conflict we had from Korea to Vietnam. His first injury was in Georgia, putting out the trash, he fell down the back steps and broke his arm.
My idea of a "MAN", is someone that does what's necessary when necessary, Would die to protect his family, Speaks the truth, His WORD is His Bond !, Doesn't bully anyone, and will not tolerate anyone that would, and speaks his beliefs, whatever they may be !
It boils down to a man that is HONEST, TRUTHFUL and STRONG in body and mind! all in the right ways !
It seems that being 59 years old, I havemetsuch men ! And have had the honor to know some of them ! Knowing them has made me strong and encouraged to be all that I could be, and do whatever I needed to do ! Living, breathing, role models, in real life !
I mention their name here so that may live forever !
Bill
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DAMN WELL PUT BIG BILL !!!!!!!THERE IS NOT MUCH MORE TOO ADD TO THAT EXCEPT THE NAMES & WAYS OF THE ONE'S WHO MADE USE MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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It's not a question of Sainthood, - no one goes though life without making mistakes. It's not continuing to repeat that same pattern over and over. The fact that someone leads a lousy irresponsible life, - doesn't make them a "good guy" because they drop fifty cents into a Salvation Army bucket.
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ah hell big bill , don't really know you but i think you are my hero now!!!
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Well David,
It's something thatI must live up to, to be what I want to be, what I believe everyone should be.
I believe some men are made by their life experiences, others are right from the womb.
I watch each step I take in life, and try to live it to the best of my beliefs ! There are time that I could take adetour, and no one would know, but I would. And it's what I see in myself that is the only thing that is important !
The only one you must please in life's long travels, is you !!! Just be Right ! :o
And I havent reached the example of anyone of these men ! But I try !
Bill
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We all lie that is a fact. Just because it doesnt hurt anyone doesnt mean its not a lie. We lie to the kids, friends, wives, the boss. Didnt hurt anyone. Is that just doing what needs to be done? Does it make you less of a man? Even honesty has a price. You find a wallet with $500 in it & no I.D. A lot of money so you turn it in. Now a wallet with $5 & no I. D. Most would just figure it thier lucky day. My point is you all discribe what a man should be, but no one can ever fully live up to.
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At the risk of repeating myself, - Sainthood IS unattainable, it's how you live the rest of the time. It's the "watering down" of standards across the board that's done the harm. The "feel good" concept, - the world's a better place just because you managed to get out of bed today.
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Big Bill I wish my mind & word's were as clear as your's,your point's are well made & precise!!! A man does make mistake's, BUT he will not repeat them,He will not lie period, small or big & his word is a true bond, is it a life of searching? most defiantly true, all of life's a learning experience it's what you take and make of them THAT MAKE'S YOU A MAN & nothing less will ever do!!!! GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR'S , A LONG LIFE SIR TO LEARN EVEN MORE, YOU HAVE DONE WELL MY FRIEND,KEEP MOVING FORWARD& STAND PROUD!!!
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Never lie. Not even a little white lie? kind of leaves everyone out doesnt it. Or do you tell your wife she has a big butt when she asks. Im sure you tell all the kids there is no Santa. Never embelished a story. Never fudged your golf score.
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As far as lying goes, I have always told everyone I know, not to ask me a question that they do not want the answer for !
I tell my wife that the pants look a little tight !
I tell my daughter that there IS a Santa Clause, A Tooth Fairy andThe Easter Bunny, because Theyare me and my wife !
And just because you fail at something, is no reason to assume that everyone also shares your shortcomings !
Assuming failure is normal, denies you the chance of success.
Bill
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But do you tell them YOU are Santa. Dancing around the truth to keep from hurting a child. Not very honest, or truthful, but its what a father, & man would do.
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Considering that Santa, and the other childhood characters are only emotions of people that give joy and happiness to children, I choose to be that character, as I perform the necessary functions !
I must suppose that you tell your children that there is no Santa, and deny your children one of life's few magical moments. And save a few bucks at the same time, and for who ?
Bill
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NO,if your asking me thier son, santa no its the day we choose to honor my lordbirth,bunnys NO the day my lord arose, yes about butt,but as you ask on embelishment I say as time passes my darling.to out right lie is a shame, and no I would never lie on a score!!!!!!!I am what and who I am and I hide NOTHING ,I will gladly let you talk to my son or grand-kids if you are wondering,I've read your threads bil601, I can only hope as time passes you to will learn from life & find someone or thing to help lead your way because gays,drug dealers and so forth are not it & if you base your life on such thing's it will be a sad life you will lead & this is from a man who has been a ranger in deep-ass grass a biker with some of the roughes there is a head beyound your wildest dreams a S.O.F for 3 years & many more,BUT THAT IS WHAT MADE ME A MAN!! not a gentleman by far BUT A DAMN GOOD MAN TOO ALL I MEET!!!!! and in all I've done I was always known for my word I hold it above all else ,try it young man it will cost you,but is a far better way of life,at least you will not have too bow down to anyone!?!
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As far as imaginary people go I tell kids what ever makes them happy. I tell them thier dog is living on a fam in the country after its been run over. You tell someone its gona be alright when you know it wont. Tell a sick friend he looks better when he doesnt. Everyone lies
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Whats being a Ranger got to do with anything? Jimmy hendricks was airborn. He over dosed. Then theres Tim Mcvay he was army too. A biker too well we know what they are like. Just remember all I did was mention a drug dealer. So you guys figure I must be some low life. I wont judge you if you dont judge me. Ive been shooting since I was 7. Built my first mini bike when I was 12. Raced go carts, & stock cars. Joined the Navy in 1969. I was 16. Spent a whole winter above the artic circle laying sonar cable. Bought my first airplane when I was 25. Have owned 20+ motor cycles. I dont know how many guns. I make bows, knives, & build boats. Ive also been a baby sitter for 45 years. I work with habitat for humanity. None of it makes me better than the the other guy. Except for being a great shot, & very hansome. I still say everyone lies when they need to. Im also sure everyone has fluffed up thier golf ball a little without taking the stroke.
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Bil601,
I'll end with this. When I was a young boy, my grandfather sat down with me, and told me that a real man has only two things that meant anything in his life. His Good Name, and his WORD !!!!!!!!
He said if you lie, you will never have your good name again, because ounce you are know as a liar, you can never get it back ! No one will ever believe another word you say !
As hard, or as easy as it has been, I still have my good name ! And until I die, I will continue tostrive to reachthese standards when I will know that I am a True "MAN" ! I may never achieve that distinction in my own eyes, as I have put these"MEN" on high pedestals,or in others eyes, but I will know that I have walked with the BEST ! And maintained my good name and honor, and not pi$$ed it down the toilet like so many others !
Some fly with the eagles, others run with the turkeys and some just hide their heads in the sands!
Bill
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IF THEY CAN DO THIS:
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A real MAN knows and admits what he can and cannot do.
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I must not be a man yet cause i havent done that and like bentong said everyman knows his limitation .I became a man when i left to the milatary at the age of 19 after high school cause my wife was pregnant and i steped up to my responsability .now im 44 years old and have six children ranging from 15years old to 25 ....jorge
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George..that is the spice of life, after school and on your own two feet it becomes the opposite. While at school you study your lesson first then take the test while in life, you take the test and learn the lesson afterwards. Some learn life's lesson the hard way.
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WOW, really me & MCvay in the same sentence's that's sad,but I guess if you don't know the diff. between an air-borne trooper & a RANGER,OH well can't expect much more from a sqiud(sorry dad he was a proud navy man of WWII) & huh I always liked jimi's sound's & bikers well I showed one who stopped by today your post(I actually read it too him you know how they are) between the grunt's & hoot's & knuckel dragging,Well you said you know about us so go figure the drift of it .And a airplane gosh really, the more would be ,OH I don't know maybe U.S. AIRFORCE CREW CHIEF OF LARGE EXPERAMENTAL AIR CRAFT,just the B-1,2's& 117's you know about now. Won't even go to the gun part.Guess I'll just go & stand on my word,the view is pretty cool !!!!! LATER SNOWBALL's
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Took you long enough. Been thinking of stuff to say? What no sense of humor? You guys had no problem linking me to a drug dealer. All Id did was throw out a couple "what if" questions. You guys took it personal. I never said anything about any of you. Next thing I know Im accused of all kinds of stuff. Heard a lot of "Im a man & I know what a man is". Got quotes from the bible and everything. Everyone throwing out thier good deeds & military service. A little disappointed the John Wayne thing didnt get a better response. That would have got me a smack in the head at grandmas house. You guys went from what is a man to "Im a Man", & heres why. Glad to see everyone so secure in thier manhood. Yes the military will make you a man. Even some of the women. Everyone should have to go. Jay sorry about the Mcvay thing. I though about it. Then did it anyway. What can I say thats the way squids are. The biker thing well eveyone knows thier kind, loving, & caring. Just misunderstood. What were you thinking they were.
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Bill,
I understand the question posed by you is:
What is the youngest age of a male, that you would consider a real "MAN" !
But having had the opportunity to read and consider the responses made as well as you own addendums perhaps it could be better put, "What makes a man a "MAN".
I think the answer is both simpler and more complex than it seems. When you can look yourself straight in the eye, in the mirror, and be able to say out loud, to the guy looking back at you, that I don't have any regrets and I like the guy I'm looking at, then I think you are looking at the face of a "MAN", in that mirror. It sounds easy and maybe a little stupid and maybe a little simplistic, but its harder than you think, especially if we are really burying something we don't want to admit to ourselves. You can look in the mirror and think, for example, I'm a good provider or I'm a good father, but just thinking it will let the one half of the brain fool the other half into thinking everything's ok. I have had clients I whom I have asked to look themselves in the mirror and admit, out loud that they were an alcoholic. One guy told me he couldn't do itwithout holding his head with both hands to keep from looking away. Finally, after having really admitted it to himself he was able to begin to change. Admitting our flaws to ourselves is one of the hardest things any one of us can do. Being a man is being able to look yourself in the eye, recognize your flaws and do your d*mdest to change them. No one of us will achieve perfection but each one of us can do his best to be the man the next guy could count on and that man that anyone of us would be proud to call his friend. You can never put an age or a date or a time limit on that. I might have been a "MAN" before, but not be one today or I might be a "MAN" yet falter and fail myself or others on another day. I can only continue to be a "MAN" if I truly am trying to be the best man I can be. If we do that, then everything else falls into place.
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Bil,
If you ever make it to Iowa I bet we would have some interesting discussions. Don't know if you'd like a good single malt but I see some things in common; motorcycles, air rifles, shooting and an understanding that the world is full of shades of gray and very little black and white, among them.
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Hey Craig,
I was hoping to find out how many members have met what I call "MEN". Dependable, Honorable, Strong in mind and spirit, real )John Wayne or stronger "MEN".
I have know a few GREAT MEN, and several Real Men in my life. Men that you would walk through fire for, and they would do the same for you. And much more to save your life !
I asked for there age so that I could see if such men still walked the earth ! I know some still do, I just wondered if others have met or know "MEN" like this, and their ages.
I don't consider myself a "Great Man" or a "Real Man", but I have tried very hard to meet these standards. Legal restraints have prevented me from doing what I knew was necessary form time to time. And I do believe many men have faced this same dilemma. A "Real Man" would have done what he knew or believed necessary, regardless of the consequences.
Just my inquisitiveness working hard again. :o
SO, WHO DO YOU KNOW THAT'S A REAL MAN, AND HOW OLD IS HE !!!
Bill
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my son big bill, he stepped up to the plate at the age of 12 , after his mother left us suddenly for the promise of the pot of gold on the end of the rain bow. i was left paying bills based on 2 paychecks. i worked in a dealership at the time and when i got off work i would start second shift in my basement on cars and trucks, he looked after his younger brother learned how to cook and wash cloths when he got his license he drove my old truck around played baseball and worked at pizza hut. he payed for the braces on his teeth bought his own classring and payed mostley for his graduation i never asked him he just done it!!! he is now married and has a 6 year old girl which he adores he never misses a ballgame of hers. in my book he has all the characteristics of a real man and i am proud to call him my son. thanks david
WOW David,
That's some story ! I know that your son has me bested in some ways !!!!
Your a lucky man, and must be a Great role model yourself, to have such a son !
I worked since I was 6 years old, but I worked in my grandfathers store, cleaning, stocking the shelves and delivering the groceries. I didn't get paid much, and what money I did get paid went to my mother. I kept the few tips that I received for delivering groceries :o The tips were few and far in between, because they knew my grandfather owned the store :0
Congratulations !!!
Bill
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Again Bill, if I may, let me rephrase your question again.
Who is the youngest person I know that I would trust with my life, my fame, my fortune and my family.
Difficult question that, mostly because I just don't have the opportunity to interact with people a great deal younger than I and therefore I don't know most of them well enough to place that type of trust and reliance upon them. You and Ishare the same generational parameters.My work puts me in frequent contact with a 38 year old man I would probably trust my back too and I go to church with a 31 tear old man I think I could count on but that's based on my judgment of his character. I haven't raised any sons but I would trust my oldest daughter to watch my back, without question, and I can tell my youngest daughter is headed in thesame direction. They are 22 and 18 respectively.
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Good answer.
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How old? I don't know. My son is now a man. It is a process, not a certain age or date to be reached. I suppose he was well on his way to manhood from about the time he reached puberty and he is still working on becoming a better man, -- like me. It begins, I think, with taking responsibility for one's self and one's own actions, and ultimately, taking on the responsibility for a wife and family, if that is the course a man chooses. It has a lot to do with honesty (always being truthful to others) and integrity (always being honest with yourself), but it is more still. It has to do with a well-developed sense of ethical behavior -- of right and wrong.
"The True Gentleman is the man whose conduct proceeds from good will and an acute sense of propriety and whose self-control is equal to all emergencies; who does not make the poor man conscious of his poverty, the obscure man of his obscurity, or any man of his inferiority or deformity; who is himself humbled if necessity compels him to humble another; who does not flatter wealth, cringe before power, or boast of his own possessions or achievements; who speaks with frankness but always with sincerity and sympathy; whose deed follows his word; who thinks of the rights and feelings of others rather than his own; and who appears well in any company; a man with whom honor is sacred and virtue safe."
- John Walter Wayland
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Someone got what I was saying. I dont just look at things from a different angle. I like to turn them inside out. Single malt sounds yummie you have a deal. Ill bring the cigars. Charlie
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Well said.
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I liked it.That was a well said honest and meaningful wordings....jorge