GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Back Room => : rocker1 April 12, 2010, 10:57:56 AM
-
how many have gotton a headache shooting a air rifle? i mean literally a headache!! seems everytime i shoot this xl1500 i get a headache, my xl1100 dosen"t. the gun is almost violent . everytime i shoot it it is like someone bumps me on the head after about 20 or more shots im done, lol not counting one arm is getting bigger than the other !!! .
-
I can't say I've had that problem. Well, actually I do get headaches from airgun shooting, but they're directly related to my marksmanship on a given day, not recoil lol.
Sounds like a good reason (not just excuse) to get the gun tuned (if there is a good tune for those Nitro Pistons). Or maybe just stick with the 1100 then? Unless you really need all that extra power in the 1500...
-
In that case I'd strongly recommend staying away from a Winchester 300 mag.
-
And do not buy a Walther Magnum...:) Could be that you have a pinched nerve in your neck or back. If all else fails sell me your XL at a discount... hehe Or trade me for one of my softer shooting air guns..:)
-
odd you say that i have a 300 mag never did give me a head ache but can"t afford to shoot it much either, makes you wonder i would think both guns have the same power plant but the 177 is much faster.ill say something else may be in my head but with different weight pellets the guns recoil is different worse with heavy pellets .
-
be careful gene i liked the looks of your quiest!!!
-
LOL David... Ed is scheduled to leave this morning and when I got up this morning he had the RamQuest out on the back deck loaded. He had packed up his new Benji Trail NP .22 for the trip and was using his next in line favorite gas ram gun..:) He wacked 2 squirrels with the RamQuest before he left today..:) He had it sighted in wiht CHP's. Both squirrels the lead went right through them from aobut 25 yards.
-
Does it happen with ALL your rifles??? I ask because I used to have the same problem.
I'm a migrane sufferer and for me...simple things lead to tension headaches, then they blossom into full blown, lock me in the dark for a few hours migranes.
A while back I noticed that I started to develop a headache while I was shooting. So I figured it might be ergonomics. After a few different tries, I found that the scope rings that I liked (asthetically) were actually too low for me and caused me to crane my neck of the comb of the rifle. So after a while, I got a tension headache.
I ended up putting on high mounts and an add on cheek plate from Archer's. I did it with ALL my scoped powder burners and most of my air rifles. Haven't had a headache since. Well, my Savage 112 in .300 WSM gives me a headace AND a shoulder ache after 10 rounds.
-
That is the Nitro, right? I guess the piston is pretty heavy, considering they are saying 1500 fps. Are you shooting heavier pellets in it? If light ones, the piston might be slamming a bit. The more power in the plant, the more resistance you need in the pellet. Also check to see if your pellets have too loose a fit.
Aside from that, I guess it must be a combination of the stock's angle and your face. How is the gun recoiling? Does the butt jump much? What kind of hold are you using? I'm assuming these are scope, only. Are you bracing the gun's butt on your upper arm or shoulder socket? Might try to switch mounts. Or you could try a couple of shots with your cheek barely touching the comb. I have to do this as a result of having had eye surgeries. Plus a long-ago session with a poorly stocked twelve gauge played the devil with my cheekbone and I think a lot of what I feel after shooting springers is the result of that. I almost sold a nice Diana 34 that I was shooting with iron sights because it had a tad too much recoil, but tried one last time with a scope it changed everything. I will, like the other poster here, add a pad to the comb. Either ready made or home made with a gel insert. (Tried a bike seat gel cover I had laying around and it soaks up 99% of felt recoil to the head.)
At any rate, until you figure it out, stop shooting the gun. It should not give you a headache and it isn't good for the eyeballs, either.
Here's a question - Many shotguns and rifles have what they call a cast to the stock. The butt is angled left or right from the bore line. This is to recoil the gun away from the shooter's face. Too much the wrong way can cause it to shift into the cheek. And there is "drop". Sit the gun on the butt with the comb against the wall and you will see the angle of the stock to the barrel/action. The steeper the angle, the harder the rifle will recoil upwards. Old style stocks had a lot of drop for iron sights. New style "American" stocks are fairly straight. Now, do air guns have drop/cast? I can't imagine Crosman putting a lot of drop into a thumbhole stock, but making the comb too high would be almost the same thing, especially for a big man with a large, rounded face.
-
well the wife has me a dr appointment tomorrow, i hate to say it but it seems i have been getting these headaches for several months since i bought these 2 air rifles jeez!!!! here i have this terrible addiction and may have to downsize to something i quess i can handle. i hope it may be just a coinicidence.
-
These should NOT be giving you headaches. Again, how are you shooting them? What is your hold and cheekweld like? Yeah, spring guns can be rough but they are NOT like shooting a large caliber firearm or shotgun. There must be something else going on. A trip to the doctor might well be in order. Could turn out to be mandibular joint problems, etc. Hope it works out OK for you, my friend!
-
David we all hope the Doctor clears you to continue shooting. Strongly consider what SamDale had to say about proper posture. This past winter I experienced whiplash like symptoms that lasted for more than a couple of weeks that I believe were caused by improper posture during my indoor shooting sessions.Once I corrected my position the symptoms went away.For routine target shooting especially when benchresting you have to get comfortable.Proper sight picture, chair height, with minimal neck strain. Also a soft pad cheek rest can absorb a lot of vibrations both from the guns recoil as well as your own pulse which can improve your accurcy.Try it.
-
well went to the dr today, ran me through the mill blood few xrays, jeez and another thing we want talk about lol , whats that got to do with a headache. dr says he thinks its stress related could be i quess lost my dad last month went through a lot with him maybe its catching up with me. anyways thanks for the thoughts .dr gave me some tablets said when i feel one coming on to take it .
-
well dr called today gave me a report on my xrays said i may have a vertabra out of line want to do a mir on my neck now dang it !!! anyways i got some new stuff in the mail a gold trigger for the xl and couple of seals already got a gold trigger on the xl1500 been waiting on a chrony now almost 2 weeks should be here anyday , at least i can play with it lol. i may tear the rifles down for something to do may need some advice. thanks david
-
Red,
"............Here's a question - Many shotguns and rifles have what they call a cast to the stock. The butt is angled left or right from the bore line. This is to recoil the gun away from the shooter's face. Too much the wrong way can cause it to shift into the cheek ....."
Not quite.
Stock cast has nothing to do with recoil in a shotgun (I do shotgun stock fittings). Since your eye is the rear sight on a shotgun, correct and consistant head placement on the stock is SUPER CRITICAL to being able to hit moving targets with a shotgun. "Cast-on, and cast-off of a shotgun stock are done to change the stock fit to match a shooter's shoulder width, and face contours to that shotgun, so that your aiming eye is alinged with the bore centerline when your head is level. Having your head level helps with how your brain precives distance to targets moving at an angle to your line of sight.
The angle of the top of the stock is what has the most affect on "felt" recoil. That's why some target shotguns, most notably the Browning trap guns, have a forward slope to the stock. As the gun fires, the stock angle moves away from your face, not up into it like most field shotguns do with the revese slope they have to the stock's top edge. Guys who use field guns for long sessions of clay shooting often get brused, sometimes even cut-open cheeks because of the stock's top angle going into, rather than away from their face.
The Trail XL's have a "cast nuetral" stock. In otherwords they are centered in a vertical plane so as to be ambidextrous. But, like the Browning trapguns, the stock comb top edge rises slightly toward the butt. With the strongest recoil being the oposite of a centerfire or shotgun, forward recoil during firing will bring the Xl's stock up into your face.
I found that, because of the high rings Crosman uses, sitting on the Weaver rail, it raises the scope so much, I couldn't get a good cheekweld without putting a pad on the stock. With the pad at the correct height to give me a good cheekweld, the recoil is much less noticable.
The headache could be from a loose cheekweld and getting hit by, rather than snuggly "ridding" the stock during forward recoil.
And, I think the "pinched nerve" is also a good possability.
Paul.
-
Thanks for the explanations. Guess I was just going by my Beretta which must have been stocked for someone quite different from me. I took it to a 'smith who used to work for Beretta USA and he had me mount the gun, eyeballing me from a couple of angles. Turns out it was cast-on too much and had a long toe. The gun was recoiling up and left, pivoting on the toe. On top of it, this is a rather unusual gun, an S56E over/under. While imported here to the US in the early 70's, my gun must have been a GI bring back. The 'smith said it has a circa 1967 forestock, plus the gun was produced by Beretta and completed by Sauer, bearing both markings. The top of the comb is that typical European knife edge, which made for a very hurtful combination. The 'smith steamed the stock and added an Old English recoil pad. Felt recoil was remarkably changed. Too bad I can't shoot it due to the recoil, but I decided to keep it, anyhow, as it's purty. :D (One of the kids may want it, too, when they are older.)
Yes, I have wondered about conventional stock designs on air guns. Too bad more don't make the adjustable combs as on the Nitro's. And they could be recoil absorbing, as well. Even if you aren't averse to recoil, it would make the guns more pleasant to shoot.
-
Red,
Sorry to hear you can't shoot it, Berretas are very nice.
Unless they do alot of clay sports, there are a few other things that can reduce felt recoil that some Smiths don't always know about.
1. With over/unders try to only use the bottom barrel. Most shotgun shooters feel more recoil in their face than their shoulder. The angle of recoil of the lower barrel is below, or closer to the center of mass of the gun and more inline with the shoulder so it has less tendancy to rotate up on the shoulder pushing into the face. The top barrel is above center of mass and will produce more recoil up into the face.
2. All my shotguns, plus those I've fitted to my daughters and my Girlfriend, get fitted with a
Kick-ese" brand magnum recoil pad. They are not expensive and I've yet to see a "softer" shooting recoil pad, bar none. They are made from Sorbothane. It's the same synthetic rubber used by the medical field for shock absorbsion. The magnum pads realy soak up recoil.
And, I shoot "gun down" for skeet and sporting clays, while the magnum pads are very thick, they are not so "squirmy soft" that they don't give a good fit when the stock is brought up to the shoulder quickly.
3. Surprisingly, shotguns are one of those things where the old saying "Less is more" often applies.
I won't get into what happens to shotgun patterns with long shot strings from large shot loads, but, shooting lighter, slower loads acutally can be better than the reverse. Before the days of "magnum" shot loads hunters still killed alot of game. And, many tests have shown, plus many pro clay sport shooters will tell you, that clay sport scores go up, not down, when they switch to shooting shells with lighter loads. And the pellets don't have to be big and fast either. Having broken clays at close to 100 yards with just factory Winchester AA 3 dram 7-1/2 trap loads in tie-breaker shoot-offs, I can tell you that shotgun pellets break clays at father distances than most shotgunners would ever imagine.
Think about how to go "less", and you'll enjoy shotgunning more !!! :D
Paul.
-
David,
Sorry to hear about your father.
And I hope the headaches are just stress related and not anything serious. I get them too from stress and know how painfull they can be. I find that if I do neck streaching exercises a physical therapist taught me, it helps rid alot of the pain. Trouble is, I don't remember to do them until the next time the pain comes back.
Paul.
-
Yes, I know what you mean about the top barrel on O/U's. What's really nice is, after the steaming/bending, the top barrel seems to be the tamer of the two.