GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Airgun Gate => : thebookdoc April 24, 2010, 09:47:15 AM
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I am going to put some scopes to the test (springer and non-springer rated), as I want to be sure that any scopes I recommend will really stand up to the biggest pounding.
What gun would you say is the nastiest recoiling monster I can get my hands on? The less expensive the better, as I'll be spending enough on scopes! I'm thinking my broken Gamo with a gas piston replacement might be the way to go. I've got some magnums, but they are all tuned by Gene (except the Walther Force 1000, which may be my second choice, and the RWS 48, which I think has been tamed by thousands of pellets), so they are probably way too mild for the kind of kick I need.
Suggestions?
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I think an untuned b-26 has good kick for the dollar?
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I would have to say the early B-21. It was often referred to as "The Beast" among a few other names. It was hard on scopes even after they were tuned. I had two of them and back then, I couldn't find a scope that would hold up although most of today's scopes are much better designed and made for today's springers.
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Diana 54. If they can withstand the Air King they will handle anything.
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I think just on my experience the B21 like Charlie said and my Walther Force 1000 are pretty nasty on recoil untuned, my WF1000 is some what tuned and still broke my Bushnell 3x12x40 sportsman scope and it wasn't that old of a scope and my B21 in .22cal has ate more than one scope while I had it!
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the b-21 is a beast
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Let me get this straight. You are going to put a series of scopes on a hard kicking springer, then compile the results? Even with cheap scopes, it won't take very long to blow through a thousand dollars. Wouldn't it be better to canvas owners as to what scopes they have on their big thumpers?
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rws model 45, which i still own . bought it im quessing about 18 or 20 years ago , remember im old here now!!! anyways first thing i did was take the scope off my marlin 39 which was a small bushnel and commenced to destroy it. lol along with a few more.i couldn't keep scopes from moving in the rings or from sliding on the rails, so i went to the gun store and the owner there ordered me a different mount and a small clamp that went behind the scope to stop it from sliding on the rails. he then proceeded to lecture me on not putting a powder burner scope on my bb gun , which then i thought he was full of it. being hard headed i learned the hard way by taking a tasco scope off my 7mm mag thinking this guy is crazy about a week later the scope had a rattling sound in it. i have since told several hunters and such you couldn't put rifle scopes on springer type air rifles and they think i'm nuts just like what i thought of that gentlman at the gun store. i quess hardheaded people like me learn the hard way. david
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Let me get this straight. You are going to put a series of scopes on a hard kicking springer, then compile the results?Â
Essentially you have the right idea...I'm going to compile stats on scopes. I am in the process of building relationships with companies who wouldn't mind getting their foot in on the springer market, as so many of us have so many guns that need so many scopes... I don't want to give up the entirety of the idea, and how I'm going to make it work, but I've already made most of my investment while doing my own testing, and yeah, it cost thousands of dollars. I'm 6 months into the planning. Right now, with all I've learned, and my experience in optics from 25+ years in photography, I think I can provide a valuable information service to springer shooters...And I plan to make that information available for free.
But yeah... I'm going to test them. Put scopes on a nasty springer or two and shoot. Not like it isn't something I'd do anyway...
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David, I think it happens that way for a lot of people. You make a pretty logical assumption that a way more powerful powderburner isn't going to be outmatched by a springer! I got back into springers a few years ago, and just made the assumption a scope was a scope, and then found out otherwise. That's when I started investing and testing. I found some manufacturers right, and some wrong in their recommendations. but there is a lot of gray area, where manufacturers make claims, and shooters end up disappointed. I think I can help make both sides meet, and cut out the gray.
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bookdoc, take a look at Mueller Scopes. They say that when they tested their line on springer air guns only their models with glass etched reticules held and are "springer rated". The others failed. Regards
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I've got Mueller on the radar. They were one of the original lines I contacted when I created my list of 30+ scope companies. I'm not leaving companies out just because they don't voluntarily rate their scopes for springers. But thanks for the suggestion!
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bookdoc, since you are doing extensive research I thought you may find interesting a copy of the email I recieved from Mueller. I believe that Rich is the main person there. I have the 4X16X50 glass etched that they refer to in this email . So far I had it on a Trail XP and NP, no problems yet, but still to soon to recommend. Regards
Hi Jim,
Either of our 4-16x50 models are glass etched, have been tested and are rated for spring piston airguns.. Other glass etched reticle models may work but they have NOT been tested, therefore we don't recommend them for that purpose.. Actually, there is only one other glass etched reticle model that is parallax adjustable (which is basically preferred for Airguns) and that's the Eraticator but it has not been fully tested for springers.. All scopes that "do not" have illumination have wire reticles.. During our testing, we found the wire reticle was the first thing to go due to the back/fourth "spring" action.
Thanks
Mueller Optics
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I had the hardest time find a scope that can withstand her. Easy on the shooter, hard on the scope. She's got my vote.
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Good information Kaz, and thank for sharing with us. It never hurts to ask questions. Really saves us time and money..:)
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Get an untuned 54, hands down. Not known as the Scope Killer for nothing! That and a set of solid mounts, no dampeners.
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Yeah, I can see how the 54 would be a real damaging test. Now I have to figure out how to get one and pay for food at the same time! I still think I need more than one test, and a gas piston Gamo AND B21 would round out the field...I mean testing on ONE gun proves nothing. testing on 3 known killers....that makes a difference.
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Walther Falcon Hunter (Hatsan 125). A notorious slammer. You aren't going to find much more energy ina spring gun.
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Here's what people have mentioned...
Mentioned several times:
* B21 (the Beast)
* RWS 54 (Air King)
* Walther Falcon Magnum (Hatsan 125)
Mentioned at least once:
* Walther Force 1000 (TF89, AR1000)
* B26
* RWS 45
Rifles no one mentioned (and I'd have expected...):
* B28
* RWS 350
* RWS 48/52
* Benjamin Super Streak
* Stoeger Arms X50
* Nitro/gas ram/air spring
I think I've got a line on an original B21 on the cheap, so that may be my first 'checker' rifle. I'd been looking at the RWS54 for a while, so its a matter of time. The Walther Falcon makes lots of sense... Here I am hoping to buy things to BREAK scopes... Put that way it DOES sound crazy, Red!
I hope the discussion continues just a bit -- either to order these in scope devastation or shake a few more scope beaters out of the closet!
Thanks all for the suggestions!
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I have the falcon hunter in .22 and it has killed 4 scopes in about 4000 shots. I also recently got a b28 untuned and it killed a bushnell 3-9-40oe in under 100 shots. Kick for kick, of these two the recoil isn't even close, the hunter is probably close to twice the kick of the 28 and way harsher to shoot.
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Hatsan mod 125..or a Hatsan made walther...
but for shear vilance the recoil of a SPA B11
is second to none,,,,
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350,b28,g1 extreme,beeman rs2
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I can't seem to find much on the SPA B11 except that it is the equivalent of a Hatsan Mod 55 and Winchester 1000x. Does that seem right?
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I'll sell you a Hammerli Titan CHEAP. It recoils so bad that I've never been able to get a scope to sit still on it! It is just sitting in the corner gathering dust.
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That Hammerli Titan is an AR1000 variant if I am not mistaken, like the TF89, Walther Force 1000. Some say the Beeman SS1000 (I don't tend to think so...though the stock has similar grip stylings). There are other foreign brands like the Meteor AR1000, and then very similar products with thumbhole stocks that are really AR2000 variants.
All this to say, I think I know the Titan indirectly. I have an untuned Walther Force 1000 and a few tuned TF89s. The Walther Force was going to remain untuned for now as one of the testing rifles.
But just in case, how much is "cheap"?
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Richard, you're right in thinking the Benjamin Super Streak. I can't chime in that it's a scope killer (still using my factory scope) but it's definately a kicker and a contender. I can't stay on target for follow-through after trigger pull, massive recoil. This AFTER tuning. I guess I just got a descent Center Point with it. We appreciate the research and your efforts bud!!!!
Happy Shooting....and testing!!!!
Dave
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how about adding a benjamine xl1500' on my third scope in as many months.
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Isn't that really a Super Streak with a nitro piston? What kind of scopes are you breaking?
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centerpoint, i have a xl1100 thats is still using the scope that came with it and so far it is holding up.