GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Hunting Gate => : atchman2 May 24, 2010, 09:39:55 AM
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Is there any major difference between the FPE of a high powered air gun (like a RWS 350 or Benji Trail) and a .22 sub-sonic? There doesn't seem to be much difference in FPS. Just curious.
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bullet weight (gr) X velocity (fps) X velocity (fps) X 0.000002218 = FPE
Compare:
Remington Subsonic .22LR, 40 grain bullet at about 950 fps = 80.06 FPE
Nitro XL .22, 14.3 grain pellet at about 900 fps = 25.7 FPE
You be the judge.
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Yes, a .22 caliber bullet is going to weigh considerably more than a .22 pellet so there is sure to be quite a difference depending on the bullet used..
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Or you can go with CCI CB Long (or short), 29 grain, 790 FPS = 40.2 FPE You can get a decent bolt action 22LR rifle for $150-$350. CCI CB Longs are about $8-9 per 100, so call it 8.5¢ per shot. Compare that to, say, an AA S410 new for around $1200, plus a scuba tank and fill adaptor, another $250, and .22 cal 18.1 JSB Jumbo Heavies at around $10 per 500 shooting at about 30-32 FPE. The thing to consider carefully about a 22LR, all else aside, is that you are shooting a firearm and different laws apply than for air rifles. But either a good PCP or a 22LR with the right sub-sonic ammo can be comparably quiet, and equally deadly to small rodents.
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Well there have been a lot of coyote sighting in the suburbs. I was just pondering what can take them out that is legal. I'm thinking my 65 lb compound bow might be the best idea.
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bow will work well
i have cci cb shorts at 35 fpe
and they are quiet
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Bow will be the easiest, because the air rifle and rifle might ruffle some feathers.
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Bow will be the easiest, because the air rifle and rifle might ruffle some feathers.
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Not sure how quiet they are, but of all the sub sonic 22RF, the Aquila 22 LR 60 grain, at 950fps, are about the most powerful at 120fpe.
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=AU1B222112&src=tpSlrCatHm
Paul.
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If you need alittle more weight/punch, these are fairly quite like amuffled crack. Also if not an AG its the only thing wife will allowed to use from the living room window! when there is predator at the chicken house that is:) I would also check whats legal where you are! http://www.natchezss.com/Ammo.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=AU&prodID=AU1B222268&prodTitle=Aguila%2022%20LR%2038%20gr%20Sub%20Sonic%20HP%2050/box
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You might have a hard time finding a rifle that won't keyhole Aguila SSS 60 gr at respectable ranges. I don't think the average .22's rifling has the proper rate of twist to handle those heavy ol' things. Nor have any of my friends had success with them. It's a shame too because they look like a great pest control means.
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my CCI cb shorts at 39 fpe are dead on accurate out to 50 yards
and the CB longs are also dead on accurate out to 50
never tried the Aguila's but i have heard that they do key hole in some riffles
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i was using super colibris i dropped the box in a mud puddle found it a few days later didnt trust them any longer no squibs for me
i took them apart and now im using the 20gr slugs in my airgun they are shooting faster out of my airgun than in the powderburner.they are more devestating on pests than a normal pellet
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Randy,
.22LR subsonic ammo would be a great alternative to an expensive PCP or equally powered (more expensive) airgun.
Again you would have to aim at the head with a .22 rimfire just like with airguns when going after coyote. I lost a couple of Groundhogs 9-10yrs taking body (chest) shots with my .22LR using high velocity and hyper velocity 36-40gr bullets. They would just run or limp to their hole with the wound visible as they took off with blood gushing out and leaving a large blood trail on the grass. After I lost 2 out of the 3 (I finally got one with a heart/lung shot but he almost made it down the hole) with body shots, I realized it had to be a head shot and nothing else. That is when I started making quick kills and recovering all the woodchucks. An average 9-10lb chuck is 1/4 to 1/5th the size of a coyote so it would not make sense trying to go for a heart shot on much larger animal if most of the time it is ineffective on a smaller one.
A subsonic 32-40gr bullet traveling at 850 to 950fps will do the job easily on a coytoe but it still has to be a well placed shot in the head. A body shot is just too risky, unless you have a centerfire or are good at shooting slugs from a 12ga. but that would defeat the purpsose of doing things "quietly". Having said/typed all this, spotting and shooting a coyote at night is much easier than done :)
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I just think a big PCP or a bow/crossbow is the solution to taking coyotes in the burbs. The big bore air guns are just so expensive and I have a bow :)
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Randy,
Something to keep in mind shooting in an urban/suburban setting - a sub sonic 22rf most likely won't exit a Yote sized critter - can the same be said for an arrow ?
Paul.
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Can you headshoot with your bow? You could always blunt tip the coyote in the head to knock it out, the remove the head.
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I am with Doug with the sub-sonic .22 as far as knockdown power. However in Eastern Oregon it is not legal to shoot a rifle OR a bow in city limits. It is however "over looked" in regards to the bow in my rural setting. Just something to think about.
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Everyone forgot the Condor .22 or .25. A Condor 25 can equal or best many .22 subsonics on the market and can shoot 43gr pellets or heavier. They have .25 Barnes 67, 78 and 90gr slugs that many guys shoot out of their Condors and get 115 fl-lbs of energy or more. I get 90fpe with just 43gr .25cal pellets, and 79.5fpe (almost 80) with 31gr Kodiaks.
I can easily shoot a 31gr .25 Kodiak through a coyote's skull beyond 30yds with a muzzle velocity of 1,060-1,070fps (subsonic). If I can get passthrough on racoon and possum (and G-hogs at 35-40yds) with a 21-22fpe Diana 350 .22, a Condor .22 or .25 will have no problem going through a coyote's skull at greater distances But it doesn't have to. You don't need a passthrough to kill one, and you can always try and take a frontal shot. A "between the eyes" shot would guarantee a kill.
I am not saying the .22 subsonic is not a good idea but do not underestimate it. I praised the .22 subsonic and said it was a good choice in my post earlier. All you really need is 13-14fpe on impact to the head, and the coyote is history. If people can take foxes at 15yds with a 34 .177 (posted here several times, and even a coyote with a Panther 34!) which is 14fpe at the muzzle (900fps), then you don't need 8 or 10X the power for a head shot on a coyote, but the more power the better of course :)
A good 20+fpe Magnum Springer will do the job on a coyote with a well placed shot to the head inside 30-35yds. It's been done before, nothing new, but if the Coyote was beyond 30yds, I 'd use a more powerful (>30fpe) PCP for peace of mind. Since there are not too many PCP's that go well above 30fpe, or cost $1,200-2K because they are European, the best bang for your buck is a Condor or a Talon with a 24" barrel. Standard Condor (no mods) - 50-60fpe depending on pellet weight, and Talon 24" 35-40fpe. If you can legally shoot firearms around the neighborhood or suburbs, then a $200 .22 rimfire rifle is your best choice, give or take $50-100 if you want a really nice one. For me knowing I can take any size animal up to and including Coyote with a small bore Airgun is priceless :) Just ask that fox from 2 months ago :) I 'd say the fox's head resembles the Coyote's a lot, and is only about 25-30% smaller. If you can drop a fox dead in its tracks, you can be sure you can do the same with a Coyote with a comparable shot and distance.
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My Sumatra will sling a 43 grain pellet at 950fps at 10 feet from the muzzle. That slightly exceeds the power of a 22 subsonic.