GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Airgun Gate => : ray1377 May 24, 2010, 07:15:35 PM
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My 44th birthday is coming up next tuesday the 1st of June.
My wife wants to get me a present.
I've only owned one springer, a beeman RS2 model 1073 dual caliber and it was heavy , but had an adjustable trigger.
I could get maybe quarter size groups at 20 yds with it.
I've narrowed it down to these two springers but I can't decide.
A RWS 34 Panther Pro for $199 from AoA
or
A Benjamin Trail NP for $229 from PA
Both have black synthetic stocks, and both come with scopes.
One has metal spring and the other a gas ram.
I've tried to read everything I could about these two guns.
Gene had a good writeup about the NPSS by crosman, which I'm assuming is alot like the Benjamin Trail NP.
But oddly enough, there are rumors floating around now that the RWS 34's may have been made with junky Chinese barrels???
Now that scares me into staying away from them.
And from all I've read before that, the RWS was the finest springers made, hands down.
Any info from you guys would be greatly appreciated.
I really need to order my b-day present by tues evening so it will get here by my b-day.
So speak up fellows!!! ha ha ha
Thanks Ray
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I have not shot the gas ram rifle. I do have and shoot the Airguns of Arizona $199 Panther Pro in .177 and it is accurate and a hard hitter. Have been taking blackbirds and gophers with it alongside the Marauder the past few weeks. It works fine and I am getting good 30-45 yard kills with it. I sighted it in at 10 yards and then went out shooting for real. Few misses and I am fine tuning the aim points on blackbirds on cattail stalks as I shoot. Gophers are easier to tell a miss and where it goes unless the cattail stalks have open water behind them. Then I just watch the splash. Often it is splashing directly behind the birds as the pellet goes through them, they fall off and I know where I hit. Easy and clean kills. The AofA rifle came with a chrony string of 5 shots for me to use as a reference as to how it shoots. Using it for a few weeks it is smoothing out more. Nice looking and fun to shoot. You will need to hear from others who have the Trail, I have never even seen one other than in photos.
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Ray:
The package deals w/ scope already mounted are almost never a good deal, IMO. You will do better to buy the rifle and pick out your own scope and mounts. It may cost more, but an inexpensive scope on either a springer or a gas ram gun will be short lived.
I have the (RWS) Diana 34 Panther. Good shooter. Pretty easy to tune into a really fine shooter. Don't own either a Benji or Crosman gas ram.
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the current 34s have chinese barrels and would hold off on that or look for an older model in good cond.
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Ray, As for the Crosmans, I would hold off on them until after all the Hype has died down. Been hearing some 'not so good' things about the strut power plant going south, and Crosman still has a way to go in ironning out some of these issues. For the Dianas, the Chinese barrel caper is pretty much hit or miss,.....like many many other shooters out there. I think it's an issue that has been blown way out of proportion. I have two Chi-clones and have never had any issues with accuracy on either one of them . Lastly, the Dianas are fine quality made rifles, but they are far from being the best made springers. If you want the best,.. or as close to it without selling your first born, invest in a German made Beeman / HW (Weihrauch). They are what springers were meant to be. The R9's are very nice out of the box, and if tuned are almost too good to be true!!!! You can also get them in .20 cal I believe,...if you want a bit more "punch" than a .177 cal. To paraphase another GTA member,....Red-Feather I think,....."it's better to buy a gun once, cry over it once, and be happy in the long run,.....than to buy once, cry alot, and never be content with it",.....if that makes any sense. Cost really is an after-thought when it comes to a quality rifle. Best of Luck, tjk
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Bad rams are no more common than bad springs. In fact, I think we're so used to hearing about bad coil springs that we hardly notice, but being newer in Air Guns, the occational bad gas ram stands out more.
Plus, coil spring technology is paid for and springs are cheap - I doubt Crosman would invest more money in redesigning/retooling to come out with so many new guns with gas rams if the rams were more problems than a coil spring.
The scopes on the Benji Trails are a step up from the usual cheap "package scopes".
Except for the layout of the crosshairs, my Trail XL's CenterPoint is exactly like the Hawke Airmax, and not like any other CenterPoint scope showing on Crosman's, or CenterPoint's websites. I think someone at Crosman has been hearing about the problems of package scopes and stepped up the quality. I would not be surprised to hear that whoever makes Hawke scopes is also making this model CenterPoint to handle the higher power of the Trails.
The Trails are also Chinese built, but I've yet to hear any complaints about accuracy once the best pellet and hold is found for that gun. One ragged hole at 30 yards is do-able.
Most common complaints are, like many AG's, the trigger needs to be replaced with the wonderful Tuna Trigger, and they may need to have the pistion seal replaced.
Paul.
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Save your money and buy a Comtea Fenix 400 compact you'll be glad you did!
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Both are fine rifles so it’s a tough choice. The Diana 34 platform has been around for 30 years so it’s tried, tested and true. The Crosman doesn’t have much of a track record yet (cause it’s new), but that doesn’t mean they’re prone to failure. The 34 is very easy to home tune and tinker with, with several springs and a couple of kits available from JM and Vortek. There’s not as much to tune with the Crosman. If you want a gas ram, go with the Crosman. The Diana will have a better trigger out of the box; an aftermarket trigger for the Crosman will set you back an additional $30+, so figure that you’re your costs.
There is no gas ram upgrade available for the Diana. I personally would not worry about the out sourced barrels on the Diana’s (allegedly Chinese) as many accurate guns have Chinese made barrels. Both should have plenty of power and accuracy for small game and pests. The Crosman is made here in the US, if buying American made is important to you. Both companies have good warranty and return policies, with the nod maybe going to Crosman’s customer service. I would get the Crosman, simply because I already own a M34 Panther. I hope this gave you more food for thought.
Nathan
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HNT5 - 5/25/2010 1:09 PM
............................The Crosman is made here in the US, if buying American made is important to you.............
Nathan
Just a correction - on both the Trail NP and the Trail NPXL it says" Made In China", printed right on the side.
It's the Crosman Nitro NPSS /Remington NPSS that are made in the USA.
For those who may wonder about quality, my "Chinese made " Trail NPXL is well made and shoots Predators into one ragged hole at 30 yards at 825fps @1000ft above sea level.
Something else to consider, the Trails have a welded on weaver scope rail. As such, the need for ultra strong one-piece scope mounts and scope moving problems on these magnum AG's are a thing of the past.
Paul.
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You're right Paul, I thought he was refering to the Crosman NPSS.
Nathan
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well the cometa has a hammer froged barrel and a trigger that doesn't need anything accept adjusted to your liking and it's way better than any T05 could ever be right out of the box! for the same price as a NPSS rifle.
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So many good ones to choose and everyone has there own opionon but from experience i have had a few to speak about and honestly the rws dianas are good airrifles with decent power and trigger ,you dont need to spend hundreds of dollars to get a great one however if u are looking for power and gonna hunt .22,s are the way to go and if it s to target practice and plink the .177s will be just right .one great airrifle would be the cometa fenix 400 or fusion and if u happen to have any problems with them cometa manou brothers will help you with no problem ...jorge
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I don't have any experience with the Trail NP so I can't offer much opinion on it other than to say that my first rifle was a Crosman Quest and it was a P.O.S. I do like the 2260, but that's a whole other animal. As for the 34 Panther, I do have one in .22 and it has JM kit. I bought the rifle in the summer of 2008 and I don't know of it has a Chinese barrel or not. But I am getting many 1/4 inch groups at 20 yards and even a few 1/8 inch groups. It is rare that I get a group larger than 3/8. And I'm not that good! The deal at AOA looks like a good one. Just the RWS lockdown mount alone is worth $30. I have one on both my 34 and 350 and they're terrific. And you get a muzzle brake that is also worth at least $30. The scope is a 3-9x44, which means it may be a 30mm. That would be great. Do you know the make and model of the scope? I don't recognize it. Now, not to make you crazy but you may or may not want to wait until the new RWS rifles with the T06 triggers are available. I believe it has a metal trigger that is adjustable for both 1st and 2nd stage. When they will be available I don't know. You might want to call Umarex or PA.
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HNT5 - 5/25/2010 3:11 PM
........... I thought he was refering to the Crosman NPSS.
Nathan
Another good choice if going with a gas ram gun.
Paul.
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Just a brief update. I counted the grooves in the barrel of my 34 and there are indeed twelve. The date stamp says 03 08. If this means it has a Chinese barrel then I guess not everything made in China is crap. To those who insist that it is, I'll try to remember that while I'm shooting the heads off matches at twenty yards.
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if i wanted a chinese gun i would get a bam,qb,ect. when im gonna shell out extra money for something thats suppose to be made in germany,i expect 100% german. not a half breed
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agree its a rumor only and not true about them havin chinese barrels at all .bam are very decent for i own a few from mike melick which i find them to be very accurate and powerful enough and if any problem occures mike really extends himself to better serve his clients thats why i keep buying them plus its affordable .just like any other brand u will always have problems with them even if u paid 1000.00 or 100.00 there is always a few in the bunch that come out bad ....jorge
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My RWS 34 pro compact is less than two years old. It will be the last 34 I buy. It is more accurate than I can be...:) So if it has a Chinese barrel, so be it. My other 34 is a 1987 vintage and is also very accurate...:)
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im not knocking the chinese guns. it all boils down to if im buyiing an rws, i expect it to be all rws. i can get a b25 for half the price and its a very good gun
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(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif)Hi Ray, My choice would be the Diana 34 Panther Pro,everyone should own a 34 during their life, LOL. A great all around shooter, excellent firing cycle,accurate, almost really smooth shooter right out of the box, 95% of the time. The other 5% is luck of the draw. Hope you get one of the 95% picks. ......Shoot Safe and Enjoy........Bill(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif)
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I had the chance to look at some Trail series at the Sportsman Wharehouse and every one of them was Chinese made. At any time I will pick the RWS 34 over any Benjamin Trail.
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I haven't shot the 34, but my brother owns the Trail XL in .22, and it's the most powerful springer I've ever shot. After a quick lube & tune, it fire so smoothly that I want one. The power scares me a bit though! I have owned a Beeman R1 and R7, each in .177, and so far I would choose the chinese made Trail XL (after a tune) over either for an all-purpose hunting/plinking gun.
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I would stay away from the China/Benji NP.
And the triggers in the Remington NPSS are horrible. (which I own!)
I think a quality gun with a steel spring is a better value, then a cheapo gun with gas-ram.
I would jump on that 34P for $199 if it was me.
I just might get one myself.
I just noticed that he RWS Model 34 Meisterschütze Pro, with the wood stock is on sale for $215 .
Rick
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While I completely agree with TCups about the usual quality of the scopes and mounts that are bundled into promotional sales, I gotta say, I actually look for those packages...
Sure, they're usually not up to the quality of the gun I'm buying, but I have piles of Crosman and Daisy pumpers that really shine with bargain scopes and rings. Also, it's nice to have a few 4x32's laying about that I can lend out when one of the kids (my nieces) gets a new rifle, or drops her gun on a cinder block (which has happened twice).
That out of the way, let me say yeah, you should get the right scope for your gun separately.
-JC
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Who is selling the compact in the U.S.A. Thanks
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Manou Bro's or Ponoma Airguns !
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Ray,
Unless I have missed it somewhere, the question I have for you is, "What do you want to do with the rifle?", or put another way, "Why these two?"
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I want a .177 caliber break barrel that is easy to shoot and carry for plinking and light varmit control.
Not really looking for a 8 lb. monster that shoot at a gazillion fps.
I had a beeman RS2 once and it weighed so much that you couldn't hope to hold it and shoot off-handed and get any accuracy from it.
It had to be shot from a shooting bench with a light artillery hold to get any good groups with it.
And hunting with it would give you out in no time.
I own Remington powder burning deer rifles that didn't weigh as much.
I really like the looks of the new Benjamin NP series of rifles.
But RWS also makes nice rifles and has for a very long time.
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The Benjamin weighs 8 lbs. and the RWS weighs 7.7 lbs. So neither one really meets your criteria. There are some quality rifles that do (HW50 , R7, Lightning XL, etc.), but none that I know of in this price range.
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RWS34 all the way. I own a wood stock version tuned with a JM tune kit and it will out-shoot the $500+ springers any day! The trigger breaks crisp and can be adjusted to your liking. In the price range, I think this is the best deal one can have. I wont mind a Panther model for its all weather stock!
For people who are hung up with the "all-german" made, please bear in mind that they dont make every part themselves, they haven't done it ever. The piston seals are outsourced by every European company to some other local guy and the Diana stocks are made in Italy.