GTA
PCP - HPA - C02 Gate => QB-7X Gate -W/Co2 & HPA => : p8ntballernwpa August 05, 2007, 10:20:37 AM
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Just to give you guys a little background on my little bit of knowledge.I have played paintball for a few years before I got into the whole airgunning thing and I know with paintball guns that you can run cO2 and HPA (high pressure air) through an assortment of different paintball guns and still work fine. Because they both run about the same pressure, and I know the only real thing you need to worry about with cO2 is the temp. I know that one the pain in the but things about cO2 is, the chance of freezing o-rings and breaking them.
So what I am thinking is that you could do the same thing with the QB78/79 series of air rifles. Because if they can handle cO2, then I would think they could handle HPA. Please correct me if I am wrong. The reason I ask, is because I know for a fact that HPA is a more stable gas than cO2. Then that way if I ran HPA through my newly won QB79 that it would be more consitant.
As I said that I used to play paintball and I have more than a few cO2 canisters around here and I can get a HPA tank pretty cheap.
So let me know what you guys think and please tell me what you know about the QB-79. I have read a little bit about them, what I could find around here.
Thanks in advanced,
Jesse
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QB internals can only handle 1200 psi max. If you remote is regulated to 950 psi (ballpark) you would be ok. The down fall is you have to run it off the tank all the time because the tube will only allow enough air for about 2 or 3 shoots maybe. They do build QB78 PCP that will do 2000 to 3000 psi and are deadly accurate to 50 yards generating about 850 fps at the muzzle. Just my nickels worth ( hell is it worth that much????) :) By the way leave a little CO2 in the gun at all times.Less wear and tear on the seals.
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Shouldn't be a problem, the set up is like the paintball markers. HPA tank, remote line run through a pressure regulator. You do end up hauling around the air tank.
Really have to work hard at cycling a bolt action single shot fast enough for freezing to be a problem, at least in warm weather....it's not really and issue. Not so hard to drop temperature enough to lower speed, although the tank fed QB79 is a lot less sensitive as it's got a much larger volume of gas to cool off.
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Actually its easyer to freeze than you might think.
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Been done Jesse and I doubt I was even close to first.
have a look at this one
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid=18
850 fps? Can beat that & with accuracy.
Ian
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thank youguys for the help and info. I just wanted to make sure, before I did anything that I would regret.
I think I might get an anti-syphon tube so there isn't any chance of cO2 liquid getting into the gone at all. If not I guess I could get a remote coil and carry the bottle around to prevent cO2 liquid getting into the gun.
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Jesse,
CO2 guns don't work off of gas like paintball gun do you need all the liquid in the gun you can get or the gun will not fire correctly. I learned that when I first started to bulk fill. You have to flip the bottle upside down to let the liquid flow into the gun. Cycle the bolt and fire the gun about 5 times rapidly to cool the tube and get the maximum fill. The item you filling has to be colder than the source. If you are remote filling make sure you have a slide check on the disconnect and remove the coil hose. If you want I can send you some pictures of what I'm talking about. If you try to disconnect the line from the gun with out bleeding off the pressure it makes a nice loud noise. When I first did it almost blew the bottle out of my hand.
Jason
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If you could that would great.So why does it need to be colder than the source?
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CO2 won't flow to a warmer direction. In a 24oz tank you only truly get about 18oz because it gets so hot. I'll take the pics after work.
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So what size tanks can you fit on a QB 79? From the pictures that I have seen it looks to be only 9oz tanks that hook straight up to the gun.
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Well I have a 4oz that fits under mine, just have to watch that the barrel doesnt touch or accuracy could well suffer.
Ian
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What brand is it? Do you have any other tanks that you use? If so, what size and brand?
Thanks
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Went to wally world and picked up a 24oz pure energy tank. I went to the paintball shop and picked up a pure energy remote line with slide check. I removed the coil line and screwed the slide check/quick disconnect right into the valve. The reason I removed the line is the waste. At first the guy at the paintball shop to me I could leave the line disconnected and the tank on. Not so the oring will only hold long enought to clean your marker you have to shut the tank off or it will blow out the oring. When you shut the tank off disconnect the line you have all the co2 in the line still and you will at sometime have to bleed it off= waste. Maybe just me but I would like to keep as much as possible. If you are looking at the regular QB79 they use 9oz or 16oz tank mounted directly to the gun.
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Yeah I have a regular QB 79 coming, I won it on another forum (airgunsmith). I am so stoked about it, never really won anything like that, even 50/50s I have never won before.
Are there any other places that other on/off valve for the paintball tanks besides ARCHER and Copper-T? Or can you use any paintball on/off valve with the QB 79?
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You don't need the on off valve. They say it saves wear and tear on the seals though I don't know being that I don't own one. You can email Archer and ask to pros and cons of the on off switch. To answer your question no I do not think a standard paintball on off valve will work unless the valve has identical threads on it. I would just wait till you get the gun and go from there.
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I was thinking with the on/off, I could fill the internal tank and then turn the on/off to off and then remove the paintball tank.
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Nah get a 9oz tank keep it on the gun. You get a little higher velocity and a ton more shots.
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Get the 9oz...get two, one to use when the other need filling..it's big, it's heavy (aqbout 25oz. when filled)...does put some stress on the gas tube fitting...but it is:
1. the cheapest tank to buy
2. holds enough gas for 350-500 shots (depending on the tune/velocity).
3. costs about 2.50 to $3 to fill with gas at apapintball shop (and 9 oz. of gas in 12gr. cartridges would be about $10-12).
Can use a remote easily on a QB79, which is no real problem when shooting from one palce (like the bench rest testing pellets). Can hook that line to a 20oz tank (or 24oz...but the 20's are common and less expensive) and shoot well over 1000 shots (less if it's tuned to be fast).
I'dll just shut the tank valve off just before you are finished shooting for the day, using the gas in the tube and the remote line until empty, then QD the line when the pressure in it is near zero.
For QB 78's, if I'm using a remote line, will dissaassemble the bulk fill end cap, removing the back-low valve parts making it a simple connection rather than a bulk valve...that way, i'll shoot the gas in the gas tube AND the remote line (after turning the paintball tank to "off") befor disconnecting.
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Yes, when you are not on a remote line, you do want the rifle to be filled by liquid co2.. but NOT 100% FULL!!!!! Looking for about 70% full...need the "extra" room for expansion as it warms up. For a standard QB witha bulk fill valve, that works out to something like 1.1 to 1.3oz. Can fill to moe, but you'd better shoot right away rather than letting the rifle warm up during the summer months.
When shooting from a remote line, do NOT want liquid co2 in the rifle. Sure...it will shoot a bit faster with liquid misting trhough the valve, and you need the liquid co2 in theguhn's gas tube to make the shot count reasonably when bulking, but it will shoot a lot more consistantly using gas and a large gas volume (the remote tank).
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Right now I have two brass eagle tanks, one is a 9oz and one is 4oz. I know these two will fit for sure because they are thinner than say a pure energy tank. Because I have like 4 or 5 pure energy tanks in 9oz, but I am not sure if they would fit because they a little bit thicker of a tank. But I guess I will have to wait and see when the air rifle gets here from airgunsmith.com.
The rifle is like the first big thing I have ever won, can't wait til it gets here.
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The 9oz. is about right for one range session. Does kind of suck to walk around with that hose and a tank, but for static shooting (like benchrest, testing pellets, mini-sniping, etc.) it works for me. Could just bulk fill it and detach the line and go off prowling, or reattach the standard cap and use 12gr. cartidges.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/SUNP0008.jpg) (http://photobucket.com)
The 20oz. really isn't mobile, but it's no more of a problem from the bench than the 9oz.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/SUNP0006-3.jpg) (http://photobucket.com)
Not saying it's the only way to go, but for when you are staying in one place and shooting from a bench, it's an advantage; you stay on the "sweet spot" for as long as there is gas in the tank.
With your QB79, the 9oz. standard tank will fit. It's big, it's heavy, but it fits and gives a whole lot of shots (something close to 500-600with an issue QB). Can figure something between .5 and .6 gr. of CO2 per shot....which works out to between 50 and 40 shots per 24gr. (two cylinders). A 9oz. tank works out to 252 grs., which should earn between 500 and 420 shots (faster using more gas, slower using less).
Given something like $2.50 to $3 per fill up (for the 9oz) at the paintball shop, that works out to between $5 and $8 for 1000shots. Using 12gr. cylinders, it would cost between $20 and $25 per 1000shots. Won't take many 1000 shots to pay for the tanks.
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Thank you for the pics and more info.
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...is why a fill of CO2 gives you about three dozen good shots and a fill of HPA at teh same pressure only gives you a few shots.
And it has to do with how c02 works. CO2 is sold as a LIQUID in our uses; it's sold by weight (12gr., 88gr. or in ounces in paintball tanks). Air is measured by PRESSURE.
(OK...in theory, if you pressurize any gas enough, it turns to liquid...actually, becasue gas heats as you pressurize it, would have to pressurize, suck out the heat, pressurize, suck out the heat, etc. Pressure to turn any gas into a liquid for anything other than co2 is giagantic and the end temperature would be so low, you'd have a very hard time finding a way to dispense it).
Co2 is a liquid. At least up until about 100degrees, part of the co2 in a cartriges is liquid. When you let some out (fire a shot) the liquid converts to pressurized gas, and that keeps the pressure equal in the storage container. Eventually, you'll shoot enough that all the liquid converts to gas, and that gas will be at something like 950-1000 psi at normal temperatures. SOOOO...you get a lot of shots while the C02 is liquid.
If you compare a tank of ALL GAS (no liquid) co2 at 1000psi (what happens when you finally run out of liqid co2) and air at 1000psi, co2 still gives more shots. It's heavier than air, so the valve can only transfer a small amount in the time it's is open. Air is "thinner", the same valve will let more of it escape (to push a pellet) in teh same time frame. So while you'd get fewer shots per volume of gas in the tube using HPA, the shots would be faster.
With air, could pump up the big air tank to 950psi and shoot without a regulator. Would get a lot fewwer shots on a tank ful as there is no liquid air to donvert to gas as you shoot. Could fill the same size tank with 950psi of co2 GAS (no liquid). Would stillg et few shots, but would get more than with HPA (becasue less co2 gas flows with each firing).
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Alright, I understand alot better now, see I have played paintball for many years and went through only using co2 and then HPA; and I just thought since the internals might somewhat the same then so I was thinking HPA would be better. Thank you for explaining it to me.
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p8ntballernwpa
k i cant really answer any of your questions because they have already been answered by some great minds. anywho i use hpa on my 79.
with remote line and all that good stuff. i have a bottle carrier that i use when im hunting and if im bench shooting i just leave it on the ground.
ive never really counted number of shots i get, i do get A LOT. :) heres a pic of my set up. its much like the other one just i use HPA.
sry if the pics are a bit big.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c156/AaronGouin/QB79rig001.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c156/AaronGouin/QB79rig003.jpg
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I thought you could use HPA and still get a pretty decent amount of shots from it. Are you using a 68/3000 tank?
But I think I am going to stick with the co2 because of the ease of availability. The nearest place for to fill up for HPA is an hour a way, one way.
I like you stock pattern on your rifle.
thank you for the pictures and the info.
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its a 47/3000 steel tank, and yes i got a lot of shots with it. one of my buddies used to be a canadian pro baller. hes got all the stuff for filling so he does it for free lol.
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Yep, that would be nice. I used to have a scuba tank that I filled my little tanks off of, but I had to sell all of it for books and gas money.