GTA
Gateway To Product Reviews => Pellet Reviews => : r1derbike October 19, 2007, 02:23:59 PM
-
Had nothing to do this evening, so I fired 6 brands of .177 pellets through the chrony, into a thick phone book, making sure each shot had a different area of the book to impact.
I was so shocked by the Gamo Hunter damage, that I shot another to make sure it wasn't a fluke! The hunter pellets shattered into several pieces, that I had to retrieve from the book.
This abuse proves nothing but how well these pellets may kill a phone book, and cement my belief that Hunters and Predators are killer ammo.
Charles
-
Hey, Charles, what size were the Exacts in your test? If you don't know, check the bottom of the tin, there should be a label that tells the size. Possible sizes are 4.50, 4.51, 4.52, and 4.53. Only reason I bring it up, I used to get significant velocity and accuracy differences with the different sized Exacts, with the 4.52 being the best. Check this spreadsheet, you'll see what I'm talking about. Just thought I'd put it out there in case you were interested. Later.
Dave
-
I'll check when I get home, Dave. I wasn't aware of the different diameters! Nice chart, BTW.
Charles
-
Dave, they are 4.52 mm.
Charles
-
Hey Charles,
why are the gamo hunters going almost 100fps faster than the other pellets? Don't they weigh around 8 grains? Just curious...maybe that's why they fragmented more than the others. Nice test and pics btw!
Regards, Scott
-
I preform all my .177 and .22 Gamo Hunter pellet skirts. I don't do this for any other ammo, yet. I was shocked at the difference in velocity of the Hunters to every other pellet I used, and like you deduced that the fps increase, as well as the Hunters being soft, and lighter than average (I'll weigh them to be sure, I assumed they were around 8 grains also), only sealed their demise.
I did some shooting with my Beretta CX4 tonight, and loaded one 30 round magazine with a variety of pellets, including crow mags, hunters, CPHPs, and tomahawks. The hunters were audibly and visually much faster than the other pellets to target. I could see the other pellets plainly to POI. The hunters I had difficulty seeing, as they were screaming toward home. The hunter pellets "stage" much harder than my other pellets, actually reducing the skirt size to exactly fit the magazine or bore I'm using. I use the other end of two tools to actually deeply stage (maybe 1/2 inch in the bores, 1/4 inch in the magazines) the pellets in all my guns. The gun (Beretta) even sounded much louder (report) as the hunters were fired.
I don't have a postal scale to weigh the pellets, so will have to borrow one at work. This has my curiosity peaked.
The hunters in .177 and .22 are my long range pellets. The JSB Predators are my short to mid range pellets.
All I know, is the Gamo hunters perform admirably, especially since I preform skirts, with my homemade former tool.
Charles
-
What really stands out, is the JSB Predator sustained quite a bit of damage while attaining over a hundred fps less than the hunters.
Going to experiment a bit with the predator skirts, and see if it will up the fps.
Can only guess what the predator would look like (fragged?) if able to attain hunter velocity.
Charles
-
I tried some gamo hunters in my webley exocet a while back and they were the fastest pellet in their weight class by over 25fps. I didn't preform the skirts either, but I have tried that trick on JSB exact express and they shot quite a bit faster...this was out of an old beeman falcon one springer that I don't have any more. BTW those gamo hunters had the least fps variation and best standard dev. also in my webley. I'll have to order some more of them.
Regards, Scott
-
I was sold on the hunters before I started forming them. I'm sold after trying them in the CX4. Will form all the other pellets I have, for testing, and see what top dog is, but the hunter is reasonably priced compared to others. They are da' bomb in at least two of my rifles.
Charles
-
I have to agree with you on those Gamo hunter pellets Charles. Not all my air rifles like them for target shooting but the rifles that like them have excellent consistency. CDT brought it to my attention a long while back that the skirts on the Gamo Hunters are much thinner than most other pellets. And when they fit good in the bore is usually a good sign that they will shoot consistently. I do not really care about the fps with what I use my rifles for but I do notice that the JSB's, RWS Superdomes are generally a slower fps with the same rifle's I use the Gamo Hunters in. I love to see the stats on different pellets that some bring to the GTA, like DaveD. He graphed it out perfect. I remember when Dave started telling us about the JSB's in different sizes. He was purchasing them from Canada in mixed sleeves. And of course there have been many other GTA members who have brought up some interesting points about size, weights and shapes of pellets. Personally I look at my pellet use in two different aspects. One is for targets and the other is for hunting..:)
Thanks for sharing you info with all of us.
Gene
-
I did notice the thin skirts, Gene, and I had more deformed skirts in one tin of hunters than I normally do, so I decided to form them out of necessity, and the results were stellar! I couldn't believe it!
I'm discovering things that you experts have run into before, I'm sure!
Have you formed other pellets' skirts with the same good results? Inquiring minds want to know! If I may reap the benefits of your knowledge, without hours of testing on my own, I'm all ears! All of them!
Charles
-
Hey Charles, I think DaveD and some guys from Europe did some extensive testing about 8 months back. There are lots of posts between them on the GTA. But for simplicities sake just ask Ed or Jeff there opinioin's on pellets. They do allot of different types of shooting besides hunting. They have a natural instinct for what pellet does best in almost any situation.
And yes I get allot of banged up pellets but I always gaze at them before I load. Then toss the bad ones out..:)
Good luck
Gene
-
I will use the search function (most unused feature of a forum, har!). Those thin hunter skirts obviously seal better than other brands, whether formed or not!
Charles
-
Interesting post and some great info . :) I've never got into sizing pellet's or weighing em myself, all my testing has been in the field hunting . I've diasected several of my harvest and studied the result's of hunting pellet's on muscle and organ's. I also have a wide assortment of skull's that I study, give's me a real view of a hunting pellet's damage to bone. The Predator in any cal. is top's on my list, it can shatter bone and tear through muscle and organ's. The Hunter is also damaging and great at long range but I noticed that when I was P-dog hunting the Hunter wasn't getting the penatration that I was looking for and some P-dog's would get to their holes. Not with the Predator,dropped em on the spot. Both have been accurate at ranges past 40yrd's for me, also I use the Gamo Master Point's, Gamo Pro Mag's and Tomahawk's which work very well on small game. The Destroyer is also a great hunting pellet. If it's a hunting pellet I have it or will have, testing them all to find the one that is accurate and will drop game quickly, the less they have to suffer the better I feel. Just my pellet's worth. All the game in my Album here have been taken with above pellet's mentioned and you can check out the Hunting Gate also for a good view of Jeff's and mine hunting result's using these pellet's. Ed
-
Thanks for all the info, Ed. I'd like to see if I may increase the predator's velocity somehow, although looking at the damage, it may not need it.
I'm glad to hear the predator is good at long range, I haven't shot any long range yet. Now, can't decide to final site-in my hunting rifles with the predators or hunters, but it looks like the predator is a cut above the hunters, with your experience.
Charles
-
Great info here as usual. I am looking forward to you, Charles, with tinkering with the Preditors and posting the results. All my guns love them pellets. Ed's post about studying the damage done on critters and such reminded me of that movie...Preditor :) By the way way Ed, you don't wear dreadlocks do ya..he.he.
Greg
-
LOL Greg, had to cut them cause they were getting hung up in the brush hehe. Ed
-
OK, ladies and gentlemen, the envelope please:
Three shots each after a clearing shot, all predators, in my Gamo CFX .177;
Formed Skirts:
1st.....865.4 fps
2nd....877.6 fps
3rd....865.8 fps
Just grabbed from the tin, made sure no skirt deformation:
1st.....782.8 fps
2nd....736.9 fps
3rd....776.9 fps
The predators whose skirts were formed were extremely fragmented, causing major damage to the phone book.
The predators whose skirts were not formed, caused the same damage to the phone book as my first shot at the top of this thread. I have found a new hunting pellet, and I WILL form the skirts on every pellet that is fired in all my guns.
Very convincing results, cheap, and worthwhile. I just wanted to prove what I found with the hunters, was not a fluke. It appears that it may be repeatable across all pellets.
The formed predators seated with a definite pop, when I forced them into the breech with my fingernail, harder to seat than the unformed predators.
Nice increase in fps, and I didn't spend a dime on hop-up parts! Yowza!
The only thing left to do, is a group comparison, to make sure that the increase in fps didn't hurt the accuracy. After all, accuracy is what's important, no?
EDIT: Not wanting to leave any stone unturned, I noticed that pellets in one of my tins of predators are missing the ballistic tip (jostled loose, I suppose, they are in the tin). I want to gauge the damage these pellets inflict without the tip, compared to the ones with them. Just another goofy "test", to make an excuse to shoot.
Charles
-
Thank's again Charles, this will help fellow member's in thier quest for the perfect hunting pellet or pellet's. I've found a few Predator's without the tip's in also. I have ran them through with no problem's and their like a hollow point, in fact I have a tin of Predator's which are hollow point's. The Predator HP ULTRA SHOCK, and they do their fair share of damage but I look for penatration factor. Thank's again for sharing and keep us updated on what you find. Ed
-
Now that was quick work Charles. Good stuff. Now perhaps you can tell us how to make or buy that skirt former. Looks like something I would definately want. :p
Greg
-
Greg, I made the skirt former by just rounding the electronics alignment tool, after I cut it in half. It is made of hard plastic. I noticed Beeman has a pellet pusher/skirt former for around 15 bucks, and I wasn't going to pay that much for a 15 cent piece of plastic with a ball on one end, and cone on the other.
Charles
-
Thanks for the info Charles. So...$15 for a Beeman pellet/pusher skirt...or a CSF (Charles Skirt Former)...for $5. Hmmmmm....
I'll take a couple! :p
Greg
-
Six shots. Phonebook backstop. First three in the piccy are the formed skirts (highest fps). 4 thru 6 are the non-formed skirts (lowest fps). All of the ballistic tips separated, except one, with little damage, but did a marvelous job of penetration.
The .22 Predators suffered none of the explosive tendencies of the .177 predators & hunters, but made short work of my phonebook, and another catalog I used for backup, just in case. Penetration was far further, and caused much larger holes/tears in the book, than the .177 Predators. No surprise there. Anyway, results of the chrony tests below:
Formed skirts, .22 Cal. Predators:
1. 671.2 fps
2. 667.5 fps
3. 669.5 fps
Non-formed skirts, .22 Cal Predators:
1. 649.3 fps
2. 645.2 fps
3. 658.1 fps
As you see, the increase in fps was far less than the .177 Cal. Predators test. Haven't done a grouping test yet. It's a bit underwhelming, and may be the powerplant (same as .177 CFX) isn't up to the task of hurling .22 Cal. lead downrange?
I was hoping for 700+ fps after expanding the skirts, but nogo...bummer. Time to try other pellets (hunters, especially) in the CFX.
Charles
-
Great work Charles. I know it's a labor of love. Look forward to your other pellet tests.
Greg
-
OK...here are pictures of the Gamo Hunters (.22 Cal.) and what happened. They flatten and mushroom beautifully, hence, tremendous knockdown power. If you've ever looked at the center core of the domes, it appears they are cut, much like a cookie cutter cuts dough. A circular scribe, or maybe a soft core (hard core?) help them flatten nicely. Penetration is nowhere near what the .22 Cal. Predators are, but look at the size of the mushroom! The pellet in the center of the picture is a .22 Cal. Gamo Hunter. Amazing.
First three pellets are the formed skirts, last three pellets are straight from the tin, making sure no skirts are deformed. Again, the fps increase is minimal, just like the .22 Cal. Predators. Look at the size of the first three, compared to the last three. Even a slight increase in fps, compared to the total, is enough to make a visible difference in the size of the mushroom.
Formed skirt Gamo .22 Cal. Hunters:
1. 684.8 fps
2. 683.2 fps
3. 682.1 fps
Non-formed skirt Gamo .22 Cal. Hunters:
1. 677.3
2. 673.5
3. 663.5
The Formed skirt Gamos were very consistent. The non-formed skirt Gamos would have been consistent, if not for the #3 pellet, which probably had a bad day...
Charles
-
Broke 700 fps barrier (.22 RWS Superdomes)! Formed skirts! Yowza! Non-formed skirts were maybe 15 fps less, so didn't include those pictures.
1. 712.3 fps
2. 710.3 fps
3. 716.0 fps
-
Broke 700 fps barrier (.22 RWS Superdomes)! Formed skirts! Yowza! Non-formed skirts were maybe 15 fps less, so didn't include those pictures.
Phonebook backstop. I really like the superdomes, they look superb, have skirt-in-a-skirt construction, and shoot well. They don't mushroom/flatten as much as the .22 Hunters, but have my vote for how they shoot in my .22 Gamo. The tin even looks superb...quality stuff.
Formed skirt .22 RWS Superdomes:
1. 712.3 fps
2. 710.3 fps
3. 716.0 fps
Charles
-
Way to go Charles. Do you see any significant increase in accuracy in .177 or .22?
Greg
-
I haven't had the opportunity to setup for groupings, Greg. It's dark when I go to work, and dark when I get off, and my indoor range is too short for any meaningful grouping. Sundays I do yard work and honey doos. Maybe I'll have a chance this Saturday, as I'm taking a day off.
Charles
-
Look forward to your findings. Just dont honey over-do it :o
Greg
-
Charles, where did you find that alignment tool at?
-
BigCat1, I bought two sets from an electronics supply store in Springdale, AR in the '70s. They are out of business, now.
I don't know if Radio Shack would have anything suitable, as I haven't needed the tools in years, as everything is now solid state, and mostly preset.
You might do a search, if you're interested.
I have a habit of making other "stuff" out of junk I have laying around, that is long unused.
I'd be very surprised if anyone stocks these anywhere.
Charles
-
This is some great stuff Charles you are sharing with us. Keep it up and thanks for all the info on the pellets.
Gene
-
Here's all I found of three .22 Superdomes, fired into a phone book @ 810-820 fps. Explosive disintegration, and massive mushroom.
Looks like the new Tech-Force TF89 is going to do its job as a hunting rifle. More pellets to follow.
Charles
-
...suffered worse disintegration than the SuperDomes. The Gamo Hunters and JSB Predators both, explosively disintegrated. The red ballistic tips on the Predators broke into several pieces, as well.
Another 100 or so fps on the TF-89 (810-820), compared to the CFX .22 (703-715), made a huge difference in the destructive nature of the pellets tried in both rifles.
I'm sold on the velocity of the TF-89. Now, don't have to buy that expensive Talon.
Charles