GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => The Shop => : CHUCKMATLOCK December 11, 2007, 12:14:34 AM
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Want to know what to ask Santa for.
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No direct info, Chuck, I'm still in the wanting stage myself :-). But I think a lot of guys start with the little Harbor Freight machine. It's cheap, readily available, and good to learn on from what I've read. Beyond that, the sky's the limit, or rather, the wallet! I've got a fair selection of Grizzly wood working tools, and I've been pleased with them, so I have my eye on a couple of different Grizzly metal lathes. Still haven't figured out how to convince the wife that I NEED one! Hope that helps, and good luck.
Dave
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so I am looking for a metal lathe? I know the spring guides are made out of some kind of plastic aren't they? Or are they metal and the pistons are plastic? Is there anything I can tell the wife I need this for? Jewelry making or something! :)
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the lathe listed at the cummins tools website is a pretty good one for the money. I bought one back in april and haven't been disappointed much yet.
You can tell the wife it's for making car or motorcycle parts or your own lawn mower repair parts hehe.
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Ya I agree with Sam on that lathe. I owned one but was not strong enough, or long enough to do what I needed it to do. I spun allot of sping guides and seal adapters and buttons with it. Even did some muzzle brakes but it was tough. Works great on plastic like Delrin. I ended up giving it away..:) I had over a grand in it. Now I have a BIG ONE... hehe and I ain't sayin how much I have in it... lol but it does everything I need it to do with close tolerances...
Gene
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Yes, you want a "metal" lathe, which means that it can machine metal, as well as plastic, wood, or any other material you can chuck up.
I've used my Taig to repair both the vacuum cleaner and the dishwasher, many times. Not that that'll sell the wife or anything.
You can make a nice ring for her on the lathe out of stainless or wood...
CHUCKMATLOCK - 12/11/2007 1:47 PM
so I am looking for a metal lathe? I know the spring guides are made out of some kind of plastic aren't they? Or are they metal and the pistons are plastic? Is there anything I can tell the wife I need this for? Jewelry making or something! :)
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Well Chuck, I just got back from CDT's tonight. We were setting up his new layth. He just had to have one like mine..:) Anyway he has an extra Lathe now.:) Thats all he does is make spring guides and other small parts with it. He has all the tooling also.. May want to ask him about the lathe or any extra tooling he has for it..:)
Gene
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That is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks. The wife said get what you want, so where do I order one!
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Well, the one for 400 bucks at Cummins Tools is supposed to have free shipping right now, and I believe you get more for your money than the Harbor Freight model....itchin to get the Cummins Tool modelmyself....
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The other issue is bed length, the HF is listed as 10" and the Cummins is 12" BUT the Cummins is actually 4" longer. The length makes a huge difference when using the tailstock with normal jobbers length drills.
Its actually the C2 lathes in 200 & 300 mm
200mm = 7.8" (HF must not use center to center to call it 10")
300mm = 11.8"
http://www.siegind.com/
A tour of the plant
http://tinyurl.com/244zb9
Cheers
Mark
homier.com has the same lathe as cummins for 299.00 (when in stock) but without the accessories.
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So it sounds like the Cummins model is the one to get for size consideration...and it comes with accessories....and it's 400 bucks with free shipping.
Then there's Homier.comthat has the same/similar model as Cummins but it doesn't have accessories and I think the shipping is not free, and when I look at the Lathe section at that site, there is no lathe right now.
So it looks to me like the Cummins model is the best deal around...and I think that's been the bottom line for a few years now.
But one last question...is the free shipping at Cummins a rare thing? Or is it offered periodically throughout the year?
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Can one man lift one of the cummins models by himself or is it a two man'r?
I can lift up 80lb sacks of concrete mix and dump em into my mixer.
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davee1 - 12/15/2007 3:04 PM
Can one man lift one of the cummins models by himself or is it a two man'r?
I can lift up 80lb sacks of concrete mix and dump em into my mixer.
Yes, its well under 100lbs total. Allot of folk store them in cabinets and take them out for use.
Cheers
Mark
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Chuck
Enco just recently began carrying a hobby lathe model# 110-0800. This 7" swing x 10" tween centers, is a very handy variable speed with two ranges; low: 200 - 1500 & high: 400 - 2900 rpm. This also cuts inch threads with "change gears" & comes with a 3.15" dia. (4) jaw chuck plus other necessary accessories. Catalog spec's. also show powered 8" carriage travel. This annual catalog gives a list price of$548.95, but they often have "sales" with as much as 15% to 30% off.
Enco Phone: 800-873-3626 or ShopOnline@use-enco.com
Please be aware that regardless of what lathe you buy, you will eventually spend half or more of the original cost on more tooling, ie: Bigger or better chucks, H.S. cutting tools or blanks, carbide cutting tools, thread cutting tools or grinding your own from blanks, cut-off blades, boring bar tooling & boring bars, and the list goes on.
As far as lathe spec's. and dim's. go, another useful aspect is the size of the spindle bore. Can't use the lathe to reface a breech or recrown a muzzle if the barrel won't fit thru the chuck or down the spindle.
When it comes to machine tools, you pay for what you get.
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From the picture it looks like Enco is carrying the SEIG or RBM Chinese 7x lathe as well. The bed lengths are the main difference all other things being equal. Best bang for the buck is the 12" center to center models that Cummins ($399 with accessories) or Homier ($299 when they have them in stock).
You have to go upwards in size and price quite a bit to get a larger through bore than 3MT though as you point out.
http://hometown.aol.com/johnstranahan/RebarrelingBook.html
Check out the creative stuff this guy has accomplished, I did buy his book long before I was "re-infected" by the airgun bug. It goes to show what patience and desire can accomplish, despite only hobbiest equipment. I loaned it out awhile back and darned if I can remember who to, I may have to order another one. It has allot of ideas that you can put in the back of your mind and pull them out when you need them.
Cheers
Mark
I confess I own a 3in1 and use it all the time
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Received a notice from Enco on 3/12/08 of a sale on their 7" x 10" variable speed lathe (model#110-0800) with accessories. It was priced at $570. Now $425.95 this includes free shipping thru 3/31/08. Promo Code: WBMR8
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Mike, I never did get a lathe yet and this sounds like a good deal but then I really dont know too much about lathes. I've noticedwhen this subject comes up, the general consensus is that the Cummins model is a great model to "do what we do".
Mike, do you feel that the Enco lathe that you mentioned is a better deal/lathe than the Cummins model?
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Dave:
Its kind of a tough call on which is the better deal, the Cummins(ToolsNow) at $399.99 + Shipping or the Enco at $425.95 including shipping. First, I would go to the Cummins site "cart" to see what the shipping would be to you in Calif. Second, I would place a phone call to Cummins to clarify whether or not a 3 jaw chuck is included (list mentions 3 Jaws but not chuck specifically and check to see if a 4 position tool post is included). Be sure to ask for the full name of the person you talk to on the phone first thing and note the exact date & time of day. It tends to keep them more honest and more likely to ask a supervisor if they don't know the answer to your question rather than B.S. you. Also with a name, if a product arrives and is not what you expected based on what you were told, you have someone to point to in resolving the problem.
Also ask to verify the spindle RPM range 100-2500. The Enco spec's: 200-2900 RPM. The Cummins, with 100 RPM minimum is much better than 200. Ever try to thread 1/2-13 up to a shoulder at 200 RPM? Don't Do It!
The Cummins appears to have a 50mm longer bed than the Enco and if I properly recollect, the Chinese Co.(looks like Seig) makes these in 2 sizes, 250mm and 300mm otherwise, they are the same lathe. The longer bed length is a Great Big Plus for the Cummins.
The Cummins lists as standard equipment both a steady and follow rest vs. Enco steady and follow as $36 & $25.70 options.
The Spindle through hole is equal to or 1/32 larger in the Cummins - Enco spec's. say 3/4" vs. Cummins 20mm. My guess is that, if there is any difference, it's accidental.
The electrical controls look to be a little different - off/on switch & speed control. Might want to make a closer comparison on the controls.
Even if the lathe (either) comes with a 3 jaw chuck, I would recommend also ordering a 4 jaw chuck for several reasons. Also, the Cummins does NOT come with a live center(C. lists it as a "rolling center") as does the Enco, so if I bought the Cummins, I'd order the $15 live center too.
Obviously, accessories are just that, and can be changed but bed length like spindle inside dia. can Not(not practically). So, If I were buying, I would be leaning pretty hard towards the Cummins. The steady and follow rests are almost a support necessity turning longer small dia. objects and are more costly as Enco accessories than a Cummins chuck.
Have I helped or made the choice more difficult? Hope I've helped.
Feel free to PM me.
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Awesome, no...you just kind of showed that bottom line you would lean towards the Cummins model. And this has been the case for a while now. If one were to wait for the free shipping special at Cummins, then that lathe would be an excellent deal. And granted, yes, there are still more accessories to buy in order to do what we do.
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Dave:
One other thing I noticed on the ToolsNow (Cummins) lathe spec. page that is not mentioned by Enco; the Cummins will cut not only SAE threads but METRIC threads also. Europe & Asia, including China use the metric system.
Waiting for a free shipping promotion could be a gamble because the next shipment of lathes or anything else is going to cost the U.S. importer more than the last shipment due to the falling value of the U.S. dollar.