GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Airgun Gate => : August 20, 2006, 10:15:15 PM
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Group:
I was at the local big-box sporting goods store and they had a sale on the Crosman 1377. That, plus a gift certificate, meant I walked out of the door with little out-of pocket expense to purchase.
I made the purchase on Friday. Later than evening, the wife and kids and I made the trip to our hunting camp, arriving at about 1:00 am. The plan was to get up and out before the crack of dawn to take a crack at some bunnies, but I was too wacked to get out of the rack.
Instead, I slept in, had a nice breakfast, cleaned the bore of my new pistola, and commenced to shoot it.
First impression? The fake woodgrain plastic grip and forearm/pump handle make the thing look cheezy. Why not use some sort of plain black plastic? Or, better yet, how about real wood?
Second impression: The back sight -indeed the entire breech, seems to have been installed "off center" so that when aiming, the rear sight top isn't flat, but slopes instead at an angle from right to left. This makes the sight picture rather, uh, unpicturesque.
Pumping the thing was fairly easy. Effort seemed even across all ten strokes.
I liked the balance of the pistol, as well as the fit of the grip. It LOOKS like an ungainly handful. It feels sort of like my old Beretta 92F that I used back in my law enforcement days in terms of balance in the hand. I like that feeling.
But I really liked the results. In fact, I was pretty shocked by them. Frankly, I didn't expect much, so the pistol didn't have to perform very high to meet my admittedly low expectations. It exceeded them handily.
First, there is the trigger. The pull is too heavy, measuring 6.33 pounds. But it is a crisp trigger, with a very predictable let-off, almost no creep, and very little over-travel. If it didn't take so much force, it would be an absolute joy to use.
Next is the velocity. They aren't kidding about 600 ft/s. Not one bit. At 5450' in elevation, 80 degrees F., and 15% relative humidity, I got the following.
Beeman Lasers: 592 ft/s
Gamo Match: 605 ft/s
Beeman Wal Mart Wadcutters: 590
Beeman Wal Mart Hollow Points: 610
Gamo Magnum Pointed: 540
Crosman Pointed (new tin graphics, pellets look like Copperhead Points, only much prettier and uniform in size): 595
Finally, accuracy........
My P-3 is one ragged hole at 10 meters. Depending on the pellets used, this Crosman pumper wasn't too shabby in the accuracy department. At 5 pumps with Gamo Match, it would shoot .25 to .30, whereas the P-3 is more like .20 all the time.
At 25 yards, I used the full 10 pumps on B-25 combat pistol targets and obliterated the X ring with the Crosman Pointed 7.9's. The pistol shot these VERY well. Well enough, in fact, for me to wack empty 12 gauge shotgun shells at 20 yards with impunity.
It did not shoot the Gamo Magnums well at all, with about 3" at 25 yards being the best I could them to group. But then, they don't shoot that slick out my wife's GAMO Shadow, either. They do shoot fantastic out of the P-3, but I digress...........
With power at P-1 levels, and accuracy levels high enough to reward one for good form and humble one without it, this is quite a pistol for the money.
It must have impressed me, as I would up shooting over 1,000 pellets through on it's "maiden outing." It even dispatched a rattlesnake at 15 yards with a Crosman Pointed to the head, when said snake strayed into the "no snake zone." On my 20 acres, it's live and let live as far as snakes go for 19 of those acres. But on the single acre that my kids play on, it's instant death.
In closing, I was very pleasantly surprised at how much fun the pistol proved to be, and how much pistol it seems to be for the $50.00 standard price that most outlets charge for one.
For paper at 10 meters, the P-3 is tough to beat. But for soda cans at 25 yards, or metallic silhoutes, the added punch of nearly 200 ft/s more velocity really adds to the plinking experience. Were it legal here in California, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot cottontails with the thing at out to, say, 20 yards or so, particularly with the Crosman Pointed pellets.
All in all, a lot of fun. And, to me at least, well worth the price.
Those plastic peewood grips, however, really gotta go. They totally hoark the good vibe and seriously detract from pride of ownership.
-JP
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Those plastic grips have to go for sure..:) I was very lucky also J.P. when a close friend decided to part with a brand new 1377. It does have some punch.. I would like to get some wood for it also. Have not tried but a couple pellets in the 1377. Actually am kinda shy about showing anyone the 1377 because with the plastic, it looks cheap, like you said.. I have a few tins of the Copperhead pointed head pellets that I have not used. Thanks for the tip..:) I was even thinking of making my own grips and pump stock. Depends on my arthritis..:)
Good review on the Crossman 1377. I shared those thoughts as well..
Gene
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Just goes to show ya, don't go messing with JP even if he "only" has a Crosman 1377 to defend himself with =D
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If members like JP are amenable to it, reviews like that would be a great addition to the library.
Ideally every make and model would have a personal review or two so a prospective buyer could click on a few reviews and get some feel for what he is interested in.
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Hello,
I have a Simmons 2 x 20 hand gun scope on mine. It shoots so well that I use it for varmint control in the back yard. I use the Crosman Accu - Pell pellets in mine and it shoots like a rifle at 15 yds. It is a little loud with 10 pumps. Check the Crosman Gate for after market products.
Rabbit :)
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Very good idea Youkills. J.P. has written some excellent reviews. Also others have written some great stuff also. Let me see how to organize it.
Thanks
Gene
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Hey JP...i had one and absoulutly loved it!!!...oh and it shoots those beeman hollow points at 605(i think)fps because they only weigh 6.5gr,pretty light but my shadow liked em when it was deisiling still,but i soon stopped because i thought they were too lite,you will like this gun and it will grow on you...im gunna get one in the next few months as a pistol that i will try to add on to...good luck.
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I know I'm beginning to sound a bit like a spokesman for Steve Corcorans grips and stocks, but after shooting with a few of them a few weeks ago I'm really hooked!
Here are some really nice pistol stocks that Steve makes for the Crosman 13XX and 22XX pistols
http://www.woodsandwateroutdoors.com/22XXPStockAndGrips.htm
He also makes full blown stocks for these guns which have a pump arm that flows right into the stock...really nice stuff.
http://www.woodsandwateroutdoors.com/22XXAmbiStock.htm
Personally the first thing I'd want to get rid of is the plastic, then maybe order up a steel breach from Crosman or one of the other airgun gurus. There's a huge following of 13XX fanatics/modders at the Crosman gate, they can really make these things scream!! I know the price of some of these add on parts makes you think,"Why would I spend so much on a $50 gun?" But if you ever shoot one of these you'll understand, it's a whole new level! They don't only look great, they are like putting on a pair of custom made gloves. Steve is really sharp when it comes to ergonomics, and that comes from years of hunting experience. His stuff fits and it works on paper as well as in the field. Have a look, bet you'll be hooked too.
Dan
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My experience was somewhat similar, I was in the 'big box' and couldn't resist that $50.00 pistol after hearing all the neat things a dummy like me could do to them. Among other things I got rid of the plastic breech & replaced it with a steel one from Crosman. I then got a wood forearm from RB Grips (he's listed in the 'Mall'). I stuck a few more odds & ends on the thing & then went out & had a ball shootin' it, shoots pretty good too!:D
RicDoug over on the yellow has a real simple trigger improvement that he's more than willing to share with folks & there are quite a few other folks on this forum & the Crosman forum that sell parts & do mods. I just punch paper & plink but I guess some of those folks can make a real barn-burner out of a 1377. 8)
Have fun,
Mike
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with a little work and some after market parts.
The first gun is a 177 caliber with grips and pump,handle by RB grips. It has a tuned trigger, grey costed tube & frame, brass piston, trigger shoe,brass barrel shroud, custom brass muzzlebrake and front sight, Crosman steel breech and fully adjustable Crosman williams notch sight.
The second gun is a 22 caliber. It has a custom handmade breech with fully adjustable rear sight. Electroless nickle barrel and cocking button, Crosman muzzleBrake woith sight, trigger shoe and electric blue laminare grips and forend by Rick Andres.
The 3rd gun is a 25 caliber gun. No internal work has been done as yet but the breech and barrel were replaced with a MWD custom units in 25 caliber. A trigger shoe has been added as well as a delrin Muzzlebrake with a fiber optic sight. A click adjusatable rear sight has also been added to the breech. Grips and pump handle are again RB Grips creations.
All 3 guns are more accurate than I am capable of and the 177 caliber gun shows promise of real power at the 15 pump level. The 22 caliber gun hits hard as well but the 25 seems a bit weak some internal work will be inorder if the gun is to be kept in this configuration or replaced with a 20 caliber instead. As you can see a lot can be done with these pistols. Stop by the Crosman forum for the details of building one of these for yourself.
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I'll be the fly in the ointment. I'll probably never buy a Crosman product again......and admittedly that is probably unfair on my part. I bought a Crosman RM577 rifle just a month ago and needed a rear sight and service done on it. Even though the model is still on the shelves at bigger retailers (Cabela's) Crosman doesn't have any parts and won't service it. That's just an inexcusable sorry bit of customer service on their part.
That said, I'm sure they make some good products. But when they fail to provide any service on a product I can still buy new it makes me think that I would have been just as well off throwing my money down a rat hole as to buy their product.
Sorry for the rant, but I'm feeling a bit burned by them at the moment.
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not recently soi exactly why would they have parts on hand? Is it their job to stock another manufacturers parts? These guns were just rebadged Mendoza's and they are still avaiable from the manufacturer and even a couple of importers. I see no reason for Crosman to still stock parts for a gun still made and sold now by others. Just becouse you bought new OLD stock that should be their problem? I don't think so. If you had bought a current crosman product you would have found their customer service to be second to none. Even on some of the older Crosman manufactured products they are pretty good. Try the manufacturer or airgun express or RWS both have imported the Mendoza line since crosman discontinued them.
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Listen, I don't want to be in a pi$%in' match or anything. But here's an example: My Chrysler is a rebadged Mitsubishi and even though the platform changed the year after it was born, Chrysler still services it and stocks parts. The fact that this is a rebadged Mendoza doesn't alleviate Crosman of any responsibility. After all, they shouldn't have put their name on it if they weren't going to be brave enough to stake their reputation on it by servicing it and providing parts.
I have my own business and I won't stock or sell anything that I'm going to be ashamed of in a couple of years time. I don't know when Crosman discontinued the RM577, but if they aren't willing to support it they should have told all their dealers to pull the warranty paperwork out of the boxes and mark all the guns as "AS IS/NO WARRANTY/NO REPAIRS". Better yet, if they weren't going to support it they should never have sold it with their name on it in the first place.
As I stated in my first post, there is a good chance I'm not being fair, I' just a bit burned at this point.
All the bad stuff said, I would have to give some thanks to Crosman/Mendoza/Cabela's and the broken-bargain-bin RM577. It did introduce me to the sport and now that I have a quality gun (I was fortunately able to exchange and buy-up to a Diana 34) I think the introduction could become an addiction. I just got back from the first small session with the Diana and can see a few other adult, quality rifles in my future.
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I have one of the earliest models of this pistol. It has the steel breach but no bolt handle. The breach locks into place by pressure against a plastic tab on the frame. This is the weakness of this model. The plastic tab wears and then the breach no longer locks closed very well. Otherwise I have always liked this pistol. I wonder if it is possible to convert this one to use a bolt handle to lock up?
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chperry,
Check with some of the folks on the Crosman Gate. I would say they can put you in touch with someone who can make that modification for you. Best of luck...
Rabbit :)
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Crosman should support it, just like they support the Quest 1000 - a re-badged B19 - with just about any part you could imagine. They also have good parts support for the Benji-Legacy 1000.
The only excuse I can imagine is if the OEM is refusing to supply THEM with parts. At that point, Crosman might have their hands tied...
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you can only do so for so long befour the parts run out. Once that happens you are done. And I can attest that getting parts from mendoza in mexico is difficult to say the least.
Bottom line: You can not expect a company to support discontined items forever. After a reasonable time parts and service are gone while old/new stock can be found at just about any time. As for the warrenty cards and paperwork? those are usually collectable in older guns so I doubt anybody will be trashing them even after the guns are 20 or 30 years old.
Below is my RM377 the Wal-Mart version of the Crosman RM277. It has the distinction of being the ONLY mendoza Air Rifle that I know of that has been BesTuned. It is a smooth slick shooter and has been compared to a tuned R7. I know I like it the action and trigger pull are 100% improved and the gun is a joy to shoot. One of these days I will mount a peep sight on it.