GTA

General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Hunting Gate => : August 21, 2006, 03:52:25 AM

: wont be hunting....
: August 21, 2006, 03:52:25 AM: anymore latly i have to get a one peice mount...my heart is broken...=(
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 21, 2006, 05:34:00 AM: how about scopeless -- open style?
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 21, 2006, 06:37:14 AM: I could try that i guess....in fact i think ill go and try to bag something now...i just like seeing the exact spot my pellet will hit
: RE: Hey, Yote............
: August 21, 2006, 08:58:33 AM: I've been shooting these things for over two decades and have never needed a one piece mount. I'm curious why you think you "need" one.

You might need "better" mounts, perhaps. One-piece isn't automatically better than two and one. There are some pretty junky one-piece mounts out there on the market.

-JP
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 21, 2006, 09:45:23 AM: ive changed my mind,i was looking at scragglepoint and found a two peice that says "extra strength for magnum springers" will this one work??
: Re: I dunno....
: August 21, 2006, 11:29:23 AM: Yote:

I pretty much just use Beeman 5030M or the SportsMatch equal (Beeman mounts are made by SportsMatch).

I know they work. They are made out of the best aluminum alloy for the purpose that money can buy and they have a true type two anodized finish which induces added surface hardness. The cap screws are all hardened, toughened steel and properly sized to fit common metric hex keys correctly. The feet are also cut at an angle that fits that of most airgun dovetails correctly.

On the market for two decades......... Thousands of satisfied users............... Still among the best there is........ Can't go wrong...... No "coulda woulda shoulda".....

Those are what I would recommend. Beeman 5030M's. I wouldn't do one-piece on a Shadow because the mounts are heavier and to me, part of the coolness of the Shadow is it's light weight. Why add extra ounces?

5030M's will hold on a Shadow and won't budge if you install them correctly and use a scope stop that actually works.

-JP
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 21, 2006, 02:05:27 PM: how much are the beeman mounts???
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 21, 2006, 08:56:00 PM: Yote:

The Beeman 5030M's normally run in the $36-$38 dollar range. You'll also need a scope stop with them that will run around $12.00 or so.

It ain't cheap, but it works.

-JP
http://www.uplandhunter.net
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 22, 2006, 01:43:09 AM: man....thats to expensive...i gotta save up for a 1377 and the intermounts...
: Re: wont be hunting....
: longislandhunter August 22, 2006, 03:18:00 AM: Hey Yote, sorry to hear you're "scopeless" for awhile, but before I put the scope on my Shadow I did well with the regular sights on the gun. Anyway, I had a difficult time finding scope mounts that wouldn't move on the Shadow until I got a BKL 260 one piece mount. Very light, very strong, and the thing has not moved so much as a micron. It is a little pricey, it was around $55 at Airguns of Arizona, but was well worth the money. Mount has 6 locking screws and does not use a stop pin as it doesn't need one. Also, I didn't have to use any separate scope stop either, which saved me $. I'm sure JP is correct when he says there are 2 piece scope mounts that will fit the bill, I'm not disputing that,,, I'm just telling you what worked for me. All my other rifles have raised scope rails that are designed to be used with a stop pin so on those guns I used the Accushot one piece mount and it works great,,, but if I get another rifle that doesn't have a raised scope rail, just grooved dovetails, I will be ordering another BKL 260 mount. Anyway, good luck with whatever mounting system you go with.

BTW: I know Gene went through some trials and tribulations trying to get a scope to stay put on his Shadow, he may have some good advice for ya if he hasn't already offered it. :)
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 22, 2006, 05:10:17 AM: i gunna try out those ones at scragglepoint....thanks guys but they are out of my price range....ill soon but those $$$$ ones if the scragglepoint ones dont work
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 22, 2006, 09:55:36 AM: yotehunter - 8/22/2006 10:10 AM

i gunna try out those ones at scragglepoint....thanks guys but they are out of my price range....ill soon but those $$$$ ones if the scragglepoint ones dont work

Well, Yote, it's your money.

But can you really afford to waste it on an experiement?

You've been given two solid solutions to your problem: the BKL 260 and the Beeman SportsMatch 5030M's backed with a good scope stop. You've been given this advice by people who, at least in my case, have been shooting these kinds of rifles since before you were born.

You've been offered two slightly different solutions to the problem. Aside from the fact that both will actually solve your problem, they both have one other thing in common: they are going to set you back about $50.00, more or less.

Coincidence? Nope.

DOING THIS JOB RIGHT ISN'T CHEAP. There is a reason why the good stuff costs what it does.

The harsher and harder-kicking your piston gun is, the LEAST likely you'll be able to scope it on the cheap successfully. And as much as I love the Gamo Shadow, it is far from being the smoothest or mildest-recoiling piston rifle I've ever shot.

I have a feeling that what you were looking for all along isn't really advice on solving your problem, but some sort of affirmation that in Accushot mounts, you've discovered a low-budget solution. Perhaps you have, too. I seriously doubt it, however. They might be a cut above other Far East mounts, but they ain't SportsMatches, either.

What is cheaper, Yote? Doing this right the first time and NEVER having a scope creep / mount creep issue ever again or spending whatever Accushots cost plus shipping and then doing it right later?

For the life of me, I will never understand the mentallity that always seeks the cheap and easy way out, or those who would sacrafice "gratification" on the altar of "instant."

In closing, you'll be surprised at what you can "afford" if you are PATIENT and WILLING TO SACRAFICE. Sorry, but I'm not buying this idea that you can't afford to solve this problem of yours correctly, once and for all. You might not be able to solve it correctly NOW, but if you really wanted to do it right, you'd figure out how to earn the money needed to do so. If solving this problem really was that important to you, you would make solving it correctly without compromise a goal and then you'd go out and achieve it.

I got into adult airguns at 17 and when I bought my first adult airgun, it wasn't some POS rifle with a crappy scope in equally crappy mounts. I decided when I was 14 that Dr. Beeman was right when he proclaimed that "with airguns, everyone can afford to have the best." He never said "everyone can afford it this instant."

When I was 14, I wanted a Beeman FWB 124 in the worst way. That was the ultimate small game air rifle back in the day, before the advent of the R-1. I couldn't afford it then, but I knew what I wanted. I set a goal. It took me 3 years to save for it. When the time came to buy, I didn't have to do ANY of it on the cheap. I also had more than the FWB 124 to choose from. The R-1 had just hit the market, along with a few other nice choices. I wound up with a Webley Omega, a Beeman 66R scope, quality mounts and scope arrestor block, and a spiffy muzzle brake -all bought on the same day.

If a KID not yet out of high school could afford all of that (including, by the way, a set of SportsMatch ring moutns that you think are too expensive), I don't see what is stopping you, Yote, from doing whatever it takes within the bounds of morality and ethics to earn and save the money required for QUALITY MOUNTS that have a PROVEN TRACK RECORD and will SOLVE THE PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL.

The only thing stopping you (that I can see from my "virtual vantage point" here in cyberspace) from solving the problem ONCE AND FOR ALL is you.

-JP
http://www.uplandhunter.net
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 22, 2006, 10:55:15 AM: i dont have that kind of money....look,i would order those if they were cheaper,im going to order these ones http://www.straightshooters.com/bkl/bkl257a2pcmedfixed.html ,and a maybe a different scope stop...thanks for you inout fellas....
: Re: wont be hunting....
: Gene_SC August 22, 2006, 11:20:21 AM: Yote, I would suggest the Cantalever Mount " BKL-254" .. I guarantee it will hold or I will buy you a two piece if you like.

Those are a bit more but cheaper than the Beaman mounts, plus a whole lot lighter.

Gene
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 22, 2006, 11:53:15 AM: ok ill look at those
: Re: wont be hunting....
: rabbit August 22, 2006, 11:53:32 AM: " Yote ",

You will be money ahead to buy a good quality, proven mount, and be done with - it. Best of luck...

Rabbit
: Re: wont be hunting....
: Gene_SC August 22, 2006, 12:24:28 PM: Thats exactly right Rabbit. Anyone want my old accushot mounts......:)

Gene
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 22, 2006, 01:19:53 PM: accushots?...are they good?
: Re: wont be hunting....
: Gene_SC August 22, 2006, 01:48:02 PM: Yote, they are the lowest priced one piece mounts I can find. But as Rabbit said. Buy a good one and you will not throw away good money for another one.

I believe JP Shelton is right about the Beeman Mounts. They are expensive though. Personally I have bout about a dozen scope mounts by different manufacturers and find that the best of the ones I have bought are the BKL one piece cantalever mounts and the B-Square. I prefer the BKL because they are light weight and very very strong and hold great on a Shadow..

Gene
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 22, 2006, 04:30:54 PM: man is this the longest thread in this forums history???????,Guys idk i really wanna save up for that project pistol...
: Re: wont be hunting....
: raterminator August 22, 2006, 07:50:36 PM: Nick, JP’s right: generally in the long run, cheep costs more. But if you don’t have enough money to buy the expensive one, Accushot one piece mount with scope stop will do just fine. I use Beeman’s 5040 and 5039 mounts now, but I still keeping my Accushot mount, because it holds and works too well to throw away.
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 23, 2006, 01:20:02 AM: accushot it is!
: First person to make the response message wrap back around loses! (nt)
: August 23, 2006, 06:20:11 AM: nt
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 23, 2006, 06:46:25 AM: wrap around?...you mean like,make it got the other way?????
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 23, 2006, 06:59:48 AM: sure like if it runs out of room on the right hand side...of course that probably has more to do with what screen resolution people are using, but it'll do for me =D
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 23, 2006, 08:49:45 AM: haha,ok
: Re: wont be hunting....
: August 23, 2006, 12:45:55 PM: yotehunter - 8/22/2006 3:55 PM

i dont have that kind of money....look,i would order those if they were cheaper,im going to order these ones http://www.straightshooters.com/bkl/bkl257a2pcmedfixed.html ,and a maybe a different scope stop...thanks for you inout fellas....

Yeah..... And I'd be driving a new Porsche Cayman today if they were about 20K less, too. Reckon I'll just have to put that purchase off a while until I can afford it.......

Don't have that kind of money, eh? I guess you entirely missed the point, then. When I was 14, I didn't have the kind of money it took to buy a FWB 124 all set up and ready to hunt, either. But when I was 17, I did. Yeah, I had to wait three years. But I didn't spend that three years shooting junk, wishing I had something better. Instead, I wound up with a set-up capable of providing a lifetime of shooting satsifaction.

If you want to settle for less, that's entirely up to you. But I seriously doubt if whatever money you do have now is all the money that you are ever going to have in the whole of your life, and that is my point.

I would also suggest again that if things really are that tight financially for you, then you are probably not in the best position to be throwing good money after bad.

It's really simple, Yote.... The cheap mounts may work ON A SHADOW or they may not. That is a gamble. And not a very good one, given the odds. On the other hand, if Beeman / SportsMatch mounts don't work, it is pretty safe to say that there probably isn't anything out there that will.

What you seem to be unwilling to accept is that the Gamo Shadow untuned is probably as rough on scopes as any air rifle out there, not just due to the recoil, but to the 2nd and 3rd order harmonic vibrations present during the firing cycle -that famous Gamo buzz and twang. The harsher and rougher your rifle is, the LESS likely you'll be able to get by with scope mounting using anything less than the best stuff out there, and that doesn't just include the mounts, but the scope, too.

You keep wanting to do this scope mounting thing "on the cheap" and that is entirely your perogotive.

But to say further up this thread that you "need to save for a 1377 and an Intermount" and then say "I don't have that kind of money" with respect to scope mounts doesn't make any sense at all.

1377 = about $50.00
Beeman 5030M =about $38.00 + about $12.00 for a scope stop that actually works.

So it really isn't that you can't afford to do this right, is it? It is a simple case of a lack of will to do it right. Fixing this problem of yours once and for all really isn't that important to you, because if it was, instead of worrying about saving up $50.00 for another airgun, you'd worry about saving up the $50.00 it'll take to cure what ails the one you've already got.

But you're not worried about that, really.

I believe that if you purchase these mounts, you will continue to have issues with mount creep until you replace them. Can you not see the difference between the BKL 257 A's and Beeman 5030M's in the pictures? The Beeman mounts have more purchase on the compression tube dovetails because the feet are bigger, and you can torque them down tighter because you've got TWO cap screws per mount to torque on, and you've got 4 cap screws per saddle to keep the scope from creeping in the mounts. And on an untuned Shadow, YOU NEED THAT.

And what's up with "maybe I'll get a better scope stop, too"? That ISN'T an option if you use 2 pc mounts on a Shadow.

But what in the hell do I know? I've only been shooting adult air rifles since 1981.

You know, Yote, I might not know everything there is to know about airguns. But I get paid $1,200.00 a pop for a single 45 minute presentation by sportsmen's show promoters, and I'll do 4 of them during the course of a show's 4-day run, during which time I'll be telling hundreds of people who paid $12.00 a head to enter the show basically the same stuff I've tried to tell you here for free.

Ain't the Internet grand...... You can get all kinds of advice. Some it comes from guys like me. In my case, you are getting the benefit of advice from a guy who has been a licensed hunter for 31 years, has been shooting and hunting with adult air rifles since 1981, shot airgun silhouette cometitively in college, used guns professionally in law enforcement, taught combat pistol shooting and advance weapons (SWAT in some circles), made a living for 10 years as a hunting guide after leaving law enforcement, currently makes a living writing about hunting and shooting, as well as through paid speaking engagements. And you're getting it for free.

And you are certainly free to ignore it.

What I have tried (in vain it seems) to do in my participation in this thread is to prevent you from wasting money. I can appreciate being on a budget. I can appreciate what it is like to be in one's teens trying to finance an airgun hobby. Been there, done that. I'm not trying to get you to buy Beeman rings just because I've got nothing better to do.

Go ahead and do it your way, Yote. But you really should stop trying to convince grown-ups that your way is the only option you've got, because it isn't. A lot of us, in addition to financing an airgun hobby, have car payments to make, utility bills to pay, morgatges to pay, clothes and food to buy, and college educations to save for. You DO have another option. It's called setting a goal, and working toward achieving it. It's called being patient, and choosing "gratification" over "instant." It is called making a mature purchase decision verses getting caught up in the emotion of "gotta have it now."

The fact of the matter, Yote, is that you need a roof over your head and clothes on your back and food in your tummy, and you need these things every day, but you DON'T need a scope mount today or tomorrow or the day after or next week or even next year. Because you DON'T need to make this purchase today, YOU CAN AFFORD TO PUT IT OFF UNTIL YOU CAN AFFORD TO DO IT RIGHT!!

Other fellas on this thread might be convinced that you have to settle for cut-rate goods but I'm not one of them. I stated before that the only person stopping you from doing this scope mount thing right and solving scope mount issues once and for all is you, and I'll stand by it. Because if you wanted to solve the problem the right way, you'd figure out a way to earn the money to do it, and any wait involved would be something that you would view as being ultimately worthwhile in the end.

I sincerely hope that low budget and cut rate works for you, but it is generally accepted among people who've been doing this awhile that "low buget" and "cut rate" typically don't equal field success and shooting satisfaction with spring-piston air rifles.

The odds of you bucking this tide of conventionally accepted reality, unfornuately, aren't really very good.

-JP
http://www.uplandhunter.net
: Free lesson
: August 23, 2006, 12:50:53 PM: One sign of maturity (and wisdom) is to learn to recognize wisdom and good advice when you see it.

I'm not saying this to pile on, I think it's a learning experience, so please take it in the spirit it's given.

JP knows his ****, you should listen to him
: Re: wont be hunting....
: raterminator August 24, 2006, 11:05:59 AM: JP, don’t be so harsh on a 12 years old kid. He’s waited long enough to get his rifle, and now what, we’re trying to convince him to wait more (tokid's mind- infinity) to get the mounts? We’re talking here about $14 (including shipping) mounts, which I assure you, would serve him fairly before he’ll be able to afford a better one, if it is. Right now, I don’t see any difference between, in my case, Beeman 4050 and Accushot one piece mounts, except the design. Maybe the quality of the material and brand name makes Beeman more desirable, but that doesn’t mean that another brand is an absolute junk. Accushot’s one piece mounts with arrestor screw (not pin like on Beeman’s) are very solid and will work fine. I hope Yote will appreciate your valuable effort (I am NOT kidding) to explain to him the importance of goal setting in future, but for now, fortunately, we aren’t spiking about a fundamental life decision here. Let the kid have fun today, not someday.
The only thing I’m not quite sure is if the mounts will work on grooved receiver the same way as on my 440 raised scope ramp.