GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Hunting Gate => : August 23, 2006, 11:07:17 AM
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Here is my simple pellet test,they were ALL shot at about 1yrd from the muzzle of the s1k.they all penetrated 2 1/2 inches in the putty,i reallt beleive this stuff simulates flesh the best,but i havnt tried the knox gelatin,i will soon though.you guys tell me which pellet would probably serve me the best when i go to try and hunt the momma/papa coon.Thanks
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5664/0001511qa2.jpg
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do you guys have any other recomendations of pellets to use for coon?,if so,tell me them! =)
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but the best pellet is the one you can shoot the most accurately.
Not sure how many fpe you need for a racoon though, I'd prefer to use a .22 on em.
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Yeah,well actually the daisy flats are out of the question,and the rockets and copperheads are about the same in accuracy wise,not fpe wise though,MAN DO I NEED A CHRONO!,LOL
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Yote, get a stop watch...... he he he he
Gene
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HAHA
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nt
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yotehunter - 8/23/2006 4:07 PM
Here is my simple pellet test,they were ALL shot at about 1yrd from the muzzle of the s1k.they all penetrated 2 1/2 inches in the putty,i reallt beleive this stuff simulates flesh the best,but i havnt tried the knox gelatin,i will soon though.you guys tell me which pellet would probably serve me the best when i go to try and hunt the momma/papa coon.Thanks
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5664/0001511qa2.jpg
Yote:
Given my lack of success in convincing you that you don't want to waste $20.00 on inferior scope mounts when you can have the best there is instead, I probably shouldn't bother wasting my time here, either, since I expect that this advice will go in one ear and out the other, too.
But here you go, anyway..........
First off, are you planning on shooting these raccoons at a range of THREE FEET?
If not, then your ballistics test is pretty meaningless.
Another thing......
You might like to think that putty simulates flesh best, and you'll probably keep on thinking that no matter what I have to say on the subject, but I doubt if I could find a single peer in the gun scribe trade who would agree with you.
The universally accepted method we use in shooting sports journalism to observe terminal ballistic performance is penetration in to wet telephone books, set up in a wooden fixture so that there isn't any air space between the books.
Why?
Because flesh is mostly water. What isn't is a lot like paper pulp in strength and consistancy.
Ballistic putty or ballsitic gelatin when used properly has the advantage of uniformity, with the latter being closer to flesh like than the former.
You know how I know your test is bogus, Yote?
Because you only managed to get 2 1/2 inches of penetration into putty at 3 feet. I can send a Copperhead competely through the chest of a 1 pound chukar at 55 yards with my wife's Shadow.
My slightly wimpier .177 R-9 will do the same thing.
It is bogus for another reason, too. And that is because if you are shooting 'coon's with your Shadow, you'd better be taking brain-pan shots and snicking that pellet into the noggin right at the base of the ear, and you probably don't want to be more than 25 yards away when you do it.
'Coons are a little harder-headed than putty is.
If you are serious about doing this, you should use the dome-head pellet that is the most accurate in your rifle. If I were doing it with my wife's Shadow, that would be the Kodiak. It'll also have the advantage of a bit more momentum than a 7.9 grainer can muster.
I also wouldn't broadcast the taking of game (which 'coons are in many states) on a public forum unless I had the valid hunting license that would allow me to shoot one legally, and in season. I assume that you do.
In most states, if you can even shoot 'coons legally (you can't in some), there is often a season when you can shoot them and even more of the year when you can't.
If you are shooting .177, you need to be SPOT ON with shot placement for taking raccoons. The kill zone is roughly the size of a dime. You have much more lattitude with a bigger caliber.
You'd be much better off going 'coon hunting with a .22LR. I kill plenty of jackrabbits that are close to small 'coon size with air rifles, but jackrabbits don't cling to life like 'coons do. Raccons hold on to the ghost like it was money. Much tougher to kill. And, usually, much bigger in size. Meaner, too.
I wouldn't do it, personally. Not, at least, with a .177 Shadow.
-JP
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Hey JP,im getting some ballistic gelatin to test and most likly will order kodiaks,but first i gotta tell you,i cant really shoot very good with my shadows open sites anymore,thats why i tested at THREE FEET,but when i get those mounts and the ballistic gel,im gunna do more tests,thats why i put "this is my "simple" pellet test"
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there's a good writeup in the latest issue of "Outdoor Life" on gelatin and wax for just that purpose -- of course they cost more than a new mount so I don't know how useful that information will be for you.
Just remember, even the "experts" use field tests in real flesh to evaluate terminal performance.
Models will only show, to quote OL: "...they've made a bullet that's only best for killing water."
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Yote:
Where are you getting the ballistic gelatin from and how much of it does the outfit that you're getting it from allow for a minimum order?
I'd like to get some.
-JP
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Well its really cheap...go to your local wal-mart or grochery store,and pick up some knox gelatin,im not sure the directions to use it but people have told me its cheap and the next best thing to real flesh,it turns out just like the ballistic gel that is expensive,the law enforcment is said to use this stuff for testing....
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yotehunter - 8/24/2006 11:59 AM
Well its really cheap...go to your local wal-mart or grochery store,and pick up some knox gelatin,im not sure the directions to use it but people have told me its cheap and the next best thing to real flesh,it turns out just like the ballistic gel that is expensive,the law enforcment is said to use this stuff for testing....
Hate to bust your bubble, Yote, but I've used the real deal many times. I used it in advanced weapons training when I was in law enforcement. It isn't the same as the stuff you buy in Wal-Mart. Thanks for trying to help out, but I am looking for the real thing.
The "real thing," by the way, is Kind and Knox Pharmagel # 250-A, and in spite of what you read on the Internet, it is NOT the same stuff sold in the little Knox Unflavored Gelatin boxes at Wal-Mart.
FBI now uses Vyse 10% Ballistic Gelatin instead of Knox Pharmagel #250-A. These along with a synthetic product called Perma Gel are the only three products of the type considered standard in the U.S. criminal justice system, and are about the only three that you are likely to be able to use in court as evidence.
Knox Pharmagel #250-A is sold in 55 gallon drums. The last one I bought for the PD was about $350.00 or so, if I recall correctly. That was in 1992. A lot of outfits that used to use this stuff have switched to the Vyse product because it is roughly half the price. Perma-Gel, which wasn't around back when I was using this stuff, is even better because it can be re-used over and over again.
Anyhow, here's the recipe we used, in case you're interested.........
2 pounds of Knox Pharmagel #250-A powder
18 pounds (by weight) of 140 degree F distilled water
2.5 ml of Foam Eater (Used in commercial food prep, I think)
.5 ml oil of cinnamon (to prevent fungus growth)
You mix the stuff with a big paddle chucked into a electric drill motor.
You start with the liquid, running it to a whirlpool without introducing air into the mixture, as in stirring too fast, and you add in the gelatin powder as you go.
When you get it all mixed up, you pour it into a clean mould.
It stands at room temperature for 4 hours.
Then it goes in the fridge for 36 hours at exactly 39.2 degrees F.
Accepted practice in law enforcement is to use the stuff within 20 minutes of removal from the fridge.
The above yields a 20 pound block.
You typcially use a 6.25 x 6.25 X 16 primary block to test handgun ammo for a maximum fo five shots, with four shots about 1.75" from the corners of the block and the fifth in the center.
Before testing firearms, the ballistic gelatin blocks are calibrated in a very interesting way.
You shoot a bb into the block at 590-600 ft/s (we used a Daisy 880) from a distance of 3 feet and if the bb penetrates the block 2.95" to 3.74", your block is considered calibrated by FBI standards.
There are specific rules you have to follow to make, store, handle, and use these blocks in law enforcement if the point of the blocks is collection of evidence. Basically, everybody follows the FBI proceedure.
Anyhow, the above is just for giggles. I though y'all might get a kick out of a Daisy 880 being used to "calibrate" a test media for court admission.
And Yote, once again, Kind and Knox Pharmagel #250-A isn't the same stuff as the unflavored Knox "jello" sold in Wal-Mart. As you might have gathered, from the "250-A" of the name, there are different grades of Pharmagel, too.
The one that comes closest to flesh in the end result is #250-A. The other stuff isn't the same.
That doesn't mean, however, that shooting pellets into "Jello" isn't a lot of fun.
Happy Pellet Testing
-JP
http://www.uplandhunter.net