GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Hunting Gate => : longislandhunter March 30, 2008, 02:00:47 AM
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After work grabbed the .22 350 Magnum and headed for the duck farm. My plan was to set up in a good sniping location and wait out the fat G-hog I saw the other day. Well, when I got there some of the employees were working near the grassy field the G-hog calls home so I knew he wasn't coming out today, not with the workers out and about anyway, so I decided to take a slow walk around the perimeter of the farm and see if I could find some other targets.
I was working through a small wooded section and suddenly heard something running through the dry underbrush. I looked just in time to catch a glimpse of another healthy G-hog dashing through the brush for his burrow. He was a beautiful specimen, nice size, healthy, and what really struck me was he wasn't really brown in color but more of a burnt cinnamon color,,, a really attractive coat ! Anyway, no shot was possible but at least I now know where 2 G-hogs are calling home ;)
I spent the rest of my time taking some shots at starlings as they landed in a group of trees near my truck, but there was a stiff wind raging across the farm and I cleanly missed every bird I shot at. Had a good time though. The other promising sign I saw besides the G-hog was that the starlings are actively seeking out nesting cavities in all the old growth tree at the farm. Won't be long now till I have resident nesting birds to target. :)
Jeff
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JEFF,at least you know that there are som G-hogs waiting for you,I am going out toward Yaphank with my Panther & Tanya,I hope I find something..........Just in case I have a few soda cans that I could kill..LOL!
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Go getem Joe :)
I know there are G-hogs in those woods. Just look closely,,,, they blend in rather well. :)
Jeff
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Don't worry Jeff, you 'll get those groundhogs sooner or later. You 'll definitely find them again in the afternoon on a nice sunny day.
I have shot a couple of cinammon colored ones with the .22LR before I got the 350. I know one of them was a female because I had seen her come out with her smaller offspring. I waited a couple of months until the smaller one was almost her size and could take care of itself and then I took her with a 40gr Winchester X .22LR. She was massive. Easily 13-14lbs, maybe more. Then last summer another cinnamon one appeared and took that out as well just before I bought the 350 and started using it exclusively on them.
The cinnamon ones look semi-pretty if a groundhog ever looked good to anyone I guess.. You can see all the fur on them when they move or run more distinctly than the darker brown/gray ones. They even seem to have a longer-hair fur than the darker colored ones but that could be an illusion. They sure are a worthy and challenging quarry, not just trying to get a clear shot at them from a reasonable distance, but to bring them down quickly with a single pellet before they run down the hole is also not an easy task.
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Funny you should mention the off-color g'hog, Jeff.
The other day, my Dad told me that he'd seen an almost golden tan groundhog while he was taking his daily walk (Dad, not the g'hog) over to a nearby pond. One of the houses along the road where he walks has a "Groundhog Crossing" sign at the edge of the front yard. The whistle-pig was shuffling around in the woods beside the house, and that's where Dad noticed the odd color. Sounds like that home-owner likes to have 'em around.
Bryan
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I'm gonna set my sights on this cinnamon G-hog. I've never bothered to tan out a G-hog hide, but I would if I can bag this guy. The good thing about this hog is that he made his den on the edge of a wooded patch. There are numerous places for me to position myself just inside the woodline and have a clear shot around his burrow. This G-hogs days on the duck farm are numbered !! :)
Jeff
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Jeff,
How do you go about tanning a hide? I'm interested in tanning a hare hide or 2 next winter.... I've read a bunch of methods, but I'm interested in the specifics you use (so many ways seem rooted in voodoo and tradition, you strike me as a fellow who'd have a simple, minimum fuss method....)
J
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When I was a kid my Dad use to home tan,he`d just flesh the pelt real well,stretch it hide side out,salt it and leave it in the sun,,seem to work as I remember? :o
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The piggies are stirrin here to,but a little slow,,,kinda look drunk,the 1`s I`ve saw fairly close
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Hey Jason,,,,
I basically do just what Barry said,,,,, I scrape all the meat and flesh off the hide, stretch it out really well, salt it down - rubbing the salt into the hide, and let it cure. I've found if I do this it works our realy well and the hides retain their shape, display well and there's no unpleasant odor. There are also commercial tanning kits you can buy, but I've never used one. Might be interesting to try one one of these days though.......
Jeff
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One of the more interesting uses for groundhog hides was/is for the skin head on an Appalachian banjo:
http://www.bobandrosemusic.com/pics/product2.jpg
Traditionally it was either g'hog skin or cats, whichever was the more convenient. I suspect in almost all cases, the hair was removed in the process of tanning it.
Bryan
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with my camera that is :-) Him and I played cat and mouse for about an hour. See pic below - zoomed in all the way (20X digital zoom I think).
I couldn't get the right angle at him to take a good head/neck shot with my 350 .22 the way I wanted it. He was either at an extreme angle or showed me his butt most of the time as the picture shows. His head turning like that didn't last too long and I didn't want to shoot from that angle. He seemed to have spotted me a couple of times and ran down the hole under my shed which is only about 4-5ft away from where he 's positioned in the pic. That was another thing that made me wait. I wanted him at least a good 20ft away from that hole but the grass was green there and was going to town..
This guy was BIG. Probably the biggest I 've seen in a couple of years. I would guess 15-17lbs. His head was massive and looked very fat for early spring. This guy was a little intimidating. Groundhogs never stop to get my adrenalin going and the heart pumping :) I was starting to have 2nd thoughts if the 350 could take him out with 1 shot especially because I don't have a scope and he was almost 30yds out. All the previous ones I got with the 350 last year I used a scope before the 350 decided to trash it. I have taken squirrels out to 30yds with head shots but something was telling me to wait until my Bushy Legend 5x15 arrives and get the gun tuned before I take a crack at this big guy again. Shot placement is a lot more crucial with these animals than squirrels, rabbits or anything else I have ever shot with an airgun. I could not see his ear from 30yds out and that bothered me and I didn't want to guess..
I hesitated a couple of times but after about an hour of trying to stay out of sight, he suddenly turned and faced me still eating with head down. I decided at that moment to go for a frontal head shot since he presented me with a nice 3.5-4" target, from what I could tell - the diameter of his skull. Then all of a sudden as I was ready to squeeze the trigger he he stood up (very tall I might add) and looked up at me and got spooked. The main reason he spooked was not me because I was not moving a muscle and he had looked at me before but with their poor vision they probably think it's a window fixture or something as long as you don't move. It was the kids across the street that had come out to play on the street making a lot of noise with an old skate board. At that point the jumpy-as-usual G-hog decided it was too hot to hang around even though the kids were 45-50yds away. He ran at half speed 25-30yds just over the edge of my property to the neighbor's where he disappeared into the ground. So now I know where his real burrow is. I don't think his home in on my property. I think he just moved in to the greenest spot he could find and is familiar with the holes on my property which he uses to escape or hide in case I show my face at a window :) It's interesting how they check the sky out as well for predatory birds because they 're usually one of their main predators. Anyway, I 'm patient. This guy will be around for at least 6 more months and I 'm sure he has friends and family in the area that would be willing to taste my green grass and some lead if I 'm lucky :)
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That's a great pic !! Big G-hog for sure. Sounds like you have a cunning quarry to stalk :)
I'll be looking forward to a pic of him lying next to the 350 magnum :)
Jeff
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Well it's over 60deg. today and very quiet in the neighborhood. Still no groundhog. I 'm hoping he 'll make his appearance later in the afternoon because I rarely see them out of their hole before 2pm. The only time I 've seen them out feeding in the morning is when it's 75-80deg and very humid.
A big house cat walked and stood right where the groundhog was standing just a few min. ago. He is a big male like my mom's cat and look almost identical - the ones that are red/orange. Well he looked much smaller than the groundhog standing there on the same spot, although the cat is slightly longer, the G-Hog was much wider and with a bigger head, I 'd say 30-40% larger head on the G-hog. The cat then was straight to the G-Hog's hole in my backyard and stood over it sniffing it and staring at it. Now I got an even better picture of how big this groundhog is because he stood there a couple of days ago before he deciding to get in it. I was amazed how he dwarfs this big cat!
1:30pm. Time to check the windows again. They 're all open now - airing out the house :-) There 's no escape!
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Harry, where in N.Y. are you?
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In Orange county. Are you from NY too?
Hey I just shot some Crow Magnums into the duct putty of my silent trap and recoverd them. I think I 'll be using these instead of the CP's or Kodiaks on the G-Hogs this year. Check out the expansion of the CM's! They didn't penetrate far, only about 0.4" compared to CP's and FTS which are almsot a full 1" but I think I 'll give them a try on the G-Hogs since they are so big, I think I 'll need all the expansion I can get. I had good luck using CP's and Kodiaks last year on the G-Hogs but I had a scope them. The rules have changed. No scope for a couple more weeks so I think I will benefit from the CM's explansion since I don't expect to be as accurate on iron sights. Just under 3/8" expansion with CM's, but over 5/16" which is about 0.31-0.32" (3/8" is 0.375")! It's nice to know I can make a 32cal. wound channel.
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Hi Harry,
Last year I tried using the Crow Magnums for the first time on G-hogs and I was not impressed at all. I've used RWS Super Hollow Points in my 350 Magnum plenty of times on G-hogs and they worked very well for me, but the Crow Magnums just didn't seem to work that well. Perhaps you'll have better luck than me, but after testing them on the G-hogs on the duck farm I decided never to use them again for G-hogs.
Looking forward to your results.....
Jeff
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Harry I'm out in SUFFOLK COUNTY...
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Jeff,
Did you use the CM's with the 350 .22? My 350 is very accurate with them to 30yds. The chrony shows they shoot around 750fps (22.7fpe).
So what exactly happened? The g-hog managed to run down the hole after being shot? Can you be more specific please? What did they do that you didn't like? Did you go for a head shot or neck shot? I 'd like to know so I don't make the same mistake.
I don't intend on shooting them in that thick skull with CM's. They don't have the penetrating power of a CP, JSB Exact Jumbo or other domed pellets. I only plan on neck shots behind the ear/skull with CM's. The heavy 18.2gr CM's I think would need to travel at least 700fps to penetrate deep inside the skull and you 'd have to strike high up in the forehead near the top (ear area) if you 're going for a head/skull shot. This makes it slightly harder to pinpoint that area from a distance or easier to shoot over their head. I like getting them just behind the ear and down a little (0.75") in the neck area where the spine meets the skull. That seems to disable them quickly, but a nice frontal head shot right between the ears up high on the skull or just a hair in front of the ears, works well too but with a good penetrating pellet like CP or Predator. The only downside to the CP is that it hardly expands even after having gone through 1" of plywood. I don't have any predators.. but the CP and Kodiak worked well last year with head and neck shots. I did hit one in right behind the shoulder area accidentally when my scope had creeped and was loose (I didn't know it at the time) using a CP at ~41-42yds. The impact was up near the top of his body behind the top of the shoulder. The groundhog jumped up, rolled around a few times trying to bite the POI, and then ran 30ft to its hole as I was getting ready to take another shot. That bothered me and always thought what would have happened if I had used a CM that would have expanded to 0.31/0.32". Probably nothing different since the shot was not an immediate threat but the g-hog did die most likely that same day because 2 days later the area around the hole started stinking. It's also possible the CM would 've done more damage.. who knows.. we 'll see what happens this time around. I looked for him all day at 30min. intervals and he was a no-show. Oh well, there 's always tomorrow..
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So you and Jeff (LIhunter) are neighbors then!
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Hey Harry,
Here's a link to the post I made last year comparing details of my G-hog hunt with the Crow Mags and my GAMO 1250 .22
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4071&posts=11&highlight=crow%20magnum&highlightmode=1#M28144
Basically the Crow Mags just didn't "put down" the G-hogs to my satisfaction and these were good solid side of the head shots from powerful rifle.
As for Joe and I being neighbors,,,,, we are indeed :)
Got to spend some time visiting with Joe and Dave over at Cobra Airguns today,,,, as always had a great time visiting with them.... :)
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Just to make it a clickable link:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4071&posts=11&highlight=crow%20magnum&highlightmode=1#M28144
Bryan
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I should have taken your word for it!!
After 25-30min. of having the groundhog on my iron sights today I finally took the shot using the 350 with a CM when he was completely broadside and had inched his way closer to me, about 23yds out. I aimed right behind the ear in the neck area. He jumped WAY up in the air about 5ft (!) and I could tell it didn't look good. He landed and started running towards the hole about 14-15ft away. He definitely slowed down a lot the last couple of feet and it looked like he was walking - he barely made it down the hole. I was so PO'd!! I think another few feet and he wouldn't have made it, or I could have had a chance for a 2nd shot. Dang, it!! :)
I waited a couple of minutes and he didn't come out. I also had my eyes on the other side of my shed because I know the 2 holes interconnect under the structure. I have seen them go in one hole and stick their head out the other. I ran downstairs and inspected the area. I found 2 drops of blood near the hole. My (friendly) neighbor across the street started approaching and asked what I shot at. I asked him to keep an eye on the shed while I get the hose to try and flush him out if he 's still alive because I don't want the area stinking for 3 weeks. I brought the hose over and had him shove it deep in the whole (a couple of feet) and I was at the other side aiming at the hole with my 350. After about a minute we turned it off because the water was backing up and had filled the hole outside. I brought the hose around and did the same thing to the other hole while was at the opposite side waiting for movement - nothing. We turned the water off when we saw water backing out of the hole and filling it. He had to be dead already. Only 7-8min. had elapsed by the time we were done with the hose. He has to be a gonner, unless he had dug a tunnel to another hole 50+ft away connecting the 2 but it was unlikely because the water had started backing up after about a minute or 1.5min.
Oh well, back to the Kodiaks and CP's if I ever get a shot at another one. I think I 'll order some predators too. I 'm sending the gun out for an advanced tune tomorrow and when I get it back I 'll mount a scope. I had a bad feeling shooting at him without a scope and Crow Magnums but I guess you live and learn. This one was by far the largest one I had taken a shot at. I was watching him this morning in desbelief how massive he was. I had several articles around to judge his size and I also concluded that he was longer than that big male cat that was standing there by his hole the other day and more than twice as wide. Oh well it's all in the past. Looking forward to the next one if they 're out there but not before the 350 gets and overhaul and a good scope.
I wonder if I can stick a snake or something in there with a big fishing hook at the end to pull him out. Anyone know how deep these holes are? I wish I had a little camera I can stick at the end of a wire to see what's down there.
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Hi Harry,
Yeah, that the kind of performance, or should I say "the lack of performance", I experienced when using them on G-hogs. Don't feel bad though, from your description and details it's a rather safe conclusion that he died quickly and didn't linger on down there suffering. It wouldn't have mattered if you had a scope on the gun, I believe the results would've been the same based on my tests with the pellet. As for the trying to "snag" him and pull him out,,,,,, you could try I guess but I doubt you'll have success. When they dig there tunnels the also dig separate sleeping and "bathroom" chambers. When they dig these chambers they actually dig a shaft at an upwards angle from the main tunnel, go up a foot or two and then hollow out their chambers. They do this so that their sleeping and "bathroom" chambers are actually above the main tunnels and therefore always stay high and dry no matter how much water runs down the main tunnel. He's probably lying dead in his sleeping chamber so snagging him is all but impossible. They are quite the engineers !!
Jeff
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You 're right again. I remember reading how they build their burrows and the seperate chambers for toileting, etc. on a web site. They also showedit on the Discovery (Kids?) or animal planet a while back.
I 'm really down right now, let me tell you.. I hate to end it like this.. only because I can't be 100% sure if it were shot placement or not. One thing is for sure, the pellet had to have hit some vital area near the hed or around the neck or upper chest at worse case scenario, and the way these pellets mushroom to >0.30", and the blood trail.. he couldn't have lasted long at all.
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He probably died within a few minutes of getting down the hole,,, especially since you saw him running out of steam fast as he headed for the hole. I know how you feel cause that's how I felt in the past whenever I had a a G-hog make it back to his hole after being hit,, but don't be to upset cause the facts that you described all point to a G-hog that died soon after being hit. As for whether it was shot placement or not,,,,, I can tell you that the G-hogs I hit when I did my testing with the Crow Magnums were all hit right in the sweet spot and they still did exactly what your hog did, that's why I decided never to use them again for G-hogs. It wasn't you, it was the pellets. Don't be to upset,,, he expired quickly...
Jeff