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PCP - HPA - C02 Gate => PCP DarkSiders Forum => : leadbottom April 22, 2008, 05:17:51 AM
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I'm a newb when it comes to PCPs, so new I don't even have one yet LOL. Just been leaning about it on the forums. One thing that's keeping me from it, besides the price on the AA410s which is what I'd like, is I'm concerned about having a filled scuba tank in my house. Seems what I read about them is they're best stored with just a little pressure. And I've seen what can happen when one explodes :O
I mean, what would happen if the house catch on fire? Maybe it's not as bad as it seems, since a lot of people are using the tanks. Am I worrying too much? Is there some kind of safety valve that releases the pressure if the tank gets hot from flame? Ideally I'd get a 4500psi tank, like the fiberglass ones at Pomona Air Guns. TIA
Bob
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I'm not sure about SCUBA tanks themselves, but many tank guns have burst disks that are designed to let the air out before the air chamber explodes, I would think a tank would have the same sort of contraption. I use a pump, but I keep my guns all charged and ready to go, I never worry about it, I just don't pound on them with a hammer:)
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Dano's right . the scuba tank's valve has a burst disc that would allow the HPA to dump long before any tank ruptures. Just make sure the tank you get has a current Hydro and Visual inspection. Problems happen when people get there tanks filled somewhere other than a scuba shop, that will not fill unless the inspections are up to date. It is in their best interest that the tanks they fill are safe. Handling tanks is another thing . Just make sure you don't drop your tank and break off the valve , that would create a missile. kirby
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Thanks guys, glad to hear that, because now I'm in the Dark Side : )
Just bought a used S410 in the yellow classifieds this afternoon :D
Stopped by my local scuba shop too, less than two miles from my house, doesn't get better than that. The man there told me about the safety burst disk. They have used 3000psi tanks with current hydro and visual for about $104 plus $6 per fill; new tanks for $200. Not sure if I want to go that way, thinking 3000 psi might not get me many full fills on the S410 (Pomona has 44cuft 4500psi full setup for $325). I might be putting a lot of shots through this repeater... unless its un-schrouded barrel proofs to be too loud for my neighborhood. Will have to see, I'm just going to be plinking at min power setting anyways.
Can anyone recommend a low priced but reliable scuba valve setup for this gun? It comes with the probe, so I guess I'll only need a valve with gauge and hose? I'm even considering a pump, but it might be more work than this sad body is up to LOL. Had some airguns and powder guns before (now only have a Beeman P1) but this will be my first PCP, looking forward to it.
Thanks again for all your advice. Bob
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The rifle you bought is a large airtube ,adjustable air rifle. It's a very nice rifle , you will be very happy with. But , if you plan on doing a lot of shooting , especially at high power , you most likely will need the larger capacity tank. I And if you go with the 4500psi tank, you will need to equip it with the correct accessories (clamp and hose) that can be bought with the tank .You might want to check with airhog.com also . kirby
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Thanks kirby. What do you think about this filler: http://airhog.com/ch_kits.htm
I'm thinking getting that and a used 80cf 3000psi tank to start, then if I stay with PCP I'll go to a 4400psi tank later. Do you know if that kit be good for both 3000psi and 4400psi? TIA
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I went through this 6 months ago. The first thing that one needs to do is to find a source for filling the tank. If the source can fill to 4500 psi then in the long run you will do well to get a carbon graphite tank. I got mine from Air Hog. The tank has DIN fittings and could be filled by a regular dive shop--my shops fill to 4500. As I recall the tank determines the fittings and it is not a given that the fittings for a 3000 psi tank will work later on a 4500 tank if they are not correctly rated. Changing fittings and adapters can cost you a lot more money. You can always fill a 4500 psi tank to lower pressure but not to hier pressure. Also Carbon Graphite tank is much lighter. When I put a pencil to it the cost for the carbon graphite tank was about the same per year over the life of the tank as buying a used tank with different fittings etc.
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Thanks John. I'd definitely rather go with the 4500 setup right up front, except for the cost. Would be nice if I could try it on the cheap and move up without reinvesting in all new equipment, but maybe that's just not doable...
I do have a scuba shop nearby and they said they can fill 4500psi, but I did ask if they could do DIN tanks. But they sell used 3000psi tanks for about $104 so that's a cheap try-it-out option. If I can find a good deal on a higher psi setup though, that would be ideal.
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Once you tried out the 80cf tank for a while and decide to "move Up" you might be able to trade up that 80cf back to the shop for a 3400psi 100cf tank . A lot more fills without the going the 4500 route . Of course not as many as the 4500psi but a good bit more than the 80cf. I was able to trade one of mine to my local dive shop for $25 difference . If they don't have one , ask them to keep an eye out for a used one and give you a call when they do. kirby
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Good that you have a source for the air. You might call Airhog since they have a lot of stuff not on the website. I purchased extra fill probes and fosters for half the price I paid for a set which was wrong. Martin is very pleasant, but Van can be a little more abrupt but both want to give you what you want. I tortured myself about the cost but in the final analysis I am happy with the hier pressure tank. Less trips to the scuba shop too. Cost of gas is more than the cost of an air tank fill. There is a fill calculator on the sight as well so you could compare the number of fills using 4500 and 3000 psi. Good luck.
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That is a great suggestion Kirby. BTW I don't know how the gages on scuba read but I assume the gages read air remaining not fill pressure into the gun. What sold me on the setup I got was that the gage measured the fill pressure on the gun and not the pressure remaining in the tank. I thought this was safer. After a couple of weeks I just threw up my hands and went with what came in the setup ready to go and fill the guns.
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The gauge to be used filling from a scuba tank is the gauge that's mounted on the scuba clamp, that's the amount of pressure in the fill line going to the rifle's airtube and the pressure that's in the airtube. I never use the one one the rifle to tell me when to stop filling , if I did I would overfill every time. I check the air in my tank by attaching a plugged quick adapter to my fill hose . Close the bleed line and open the scuba valve slowly until the gauge hand stops, the gauge on the clamp will then read the pressure remaining in the scuba tank. This is the safest way I've found to deal with filling and checking with a scuba tank. kirby
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Kirby, IIR you had used a pump on your S400/410s before? I'm just wondering, because you shoot 12fp guns and I will be running mine on the low setting most of the time. I'm starting to consider just getting a pump for now. Been learning a lot yesterday about tanks and the pros and cons of each type, stayed up 'til 5 this morning on it :O
It seems there's no easy answer, even if I put down a lot of cash on a nice tank, I read a lot of scuba shops have to send them out for hydros and they get bounced around in trucks, not how I want to picture a cf tank getting treated LOL. Then if I get the cheap tank I'm not getting only a few full fills...
So.. I know pumping is a lot of work, but I'll be getting a pump eventually, maybe now's the time. And if I don't like it, pumps are always easy to sell, they go fast on the yellow classifieds. I missed on just a couple of days ago because I hesitated and emailed the seller with a questions, and searching thru sales history I notice they usually sell fast. I know your carbines have about 1/3 shorter tubes but I figure I can guestimate from you numbers how much pumping I'd be up against. TIA
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I've never used a pump, I started with a tank. I think Gene would be the person to answer your question . IMO a s400/410 in a carbine shouldn't be that hard to pump as I mine's sweet spot is at 2500psi and I shoot down to around 2000psi. I main concern about using a pump was moister . The air from a scuba tank is supposed to be dry . Pumping creates moister and you need to make sure you have a drypac on your pump. I wouldn't want my airtube to rust inside .I maybe just overly cautious but that's what I've read . kirby
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I bought the 80cu ft tank for my S-410 Carbine and wonder now if I should of bought the 3600 psi tank now. I guess hind sight is 20-20..:) David, how many fills should I get from a 3000 psi 80 cu ft tank on my S-410c?
Gene
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Yeah hindsight LOL ;D Been there too many times LOL
I did notice, using Airhogs fill calculator, every 100psi capacity over the 3000 makes a big difference. But the thing I read about the 3300psi al tank is you need to remind the fill guy you have a 3300 tank otherwise they tend to assume it's just 3000 like most al tanks. I was guestimating 190cc for my air tube for the calculations and 2900/1900 refill levels.
I really like your carbine. If cost was no object I'd get a 410 carbine with the side lever, adjustable power, and walnut stock (and a nice cf tank setup with the works LOL). I have a used but great condition 410 bolt action non-carbine with beech stock coming soon, and for the money really can't complain at all. Now just need a way to get it filled, without making my life any more complicated. The nice thing is the nearest scuba shop is only 5 minutes away, with another one almost as close but I haven't been there yet--a benefit of living near the coast : )
BTW thanks Gene for running this forum (correct me if you don't), I've been around lookin' in for a few months, it's a lot of help and have some good folks around. Hope this is not too off topic...Is there any way to change my forum ID without starting over? I'm BobRI on the yellow and like to use the same here if possible, not a big deal either way though.
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Bob, the airtube in you ERB is 314cc , the Classic has a 242cc tube and the carbine has a 181cc tube. kirby
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Gene, If the scuba dealer fills your 80cf tank to 3200psi, which he should without any problems (could go to 3300psi mine does on my 88cf tank) ; then using the calculator on Airhog's sight , with you filling to 2500psi (my sweetspot with my carbines) and shooting down to 1500psi , before refilling (about 50 shots) you would get 40 full fills . On the other hand if you're filling to 2900 psi and shooting down to 1500psi, then you would only get 12 full fills. So by filling to the lower pressure fill of 2500 , you would get 40 (fills) X50 (shots)= 2000 shots per scuba tank fill and with the higher pressure fill you would get , 70x12 +840 shots per scuba tank fill. That's with a 181cc carbine tank. kirby
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Thanks for those numbers David. I couldn't find them when I looked. Finally decided to get a cheapo Kingman fill yoke at Pyramyd for $70 and a new al 80cf tank locally for $190. The up front cost on the new tank is more than the $104 used one, but the new one comes with 10 fills and fresh hydro and visual tests, so bottom line was only a few bucks more than buying used here. And resale value should be higher if I want to get rid of it or trade up. And the guy was willing to fill to 3200psi. Got a Chrony F1 too while I was at it, figure it'd be a big help with working out my fill pressures.
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Thanks David, sure appreciate your feed back on this.
Gene