GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Gamo Gate => : September 07, 2006, 01:00:07 PM
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Cocking my cfx for the first time felt very smooth. I shot only a few after work since it was dark out. This cfx will probably get shot over the weekend, hopefully on some squirrels. As for the Chrony and Trigger Test Data:
Turbo Tuned.
Gun Tested : Gamo CFX .177
Brand Pellet: Gamo hunter 8.3 gr
Trigger pull weight: average pull Post Mod 1 lbs 10 oz
My CFX I sent out to CDT is pretty much brand new. The only mod was the GTX trigger install. One prob it did have was that fact that the factory seal was loose, prob because it was a display model and the public opened the breech w/o cocking the rifle afew times. I sent it out to CDT, he worked his magic on it but something puzzled me. Not owning a chrony, I never new what my velocity was. I assumed it was around 1000fps +/- 200fps depending on the pellet grain. But after I got my CDT print out, well.... it was extremely low. CDT did his magic and I am extremely satisfied with his work. My fps read:
Highest velocity : Pre-tune = 577, Post tune = 631
Lowest velocity : Pre-tune = 551, Post tune = 614
I have read and understood that my velocity may be a little low but as the seal breaks in and mates to the compression chamer it will increase, usually somewhere between 3-5%. That means when it is broken in, I would add like 30fps or less to my post tune number. Are all CFX' chronied this low? I was expecting to see atleast 800fps from my cfx. Here are some photos of my print out from CDT.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/KHIEM/charlie004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/KHIEM/charlie005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/KHIEM/charlie007.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v172/KHIEM/charlie008.jpg
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my shadow supreme was the same pre-tune, and went to 660avg after the tune [new mas spring?]
It might get a bit faster, but with a 14g pellet, that's good enough for what I need.
For a cannon, I'm looking for a used Rws54.
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Glad you got your CFX back Khiem. With that trigger you should get very tight groups now. Ya it is funny about what you said about thinking you would get 1000 fps + or- 200. Well Gamo and allot of other manufacturers advertise 1000 fps but do not tell you what pellet they use...:) Did you get a new spring and guide installed? When I sent my CFX .177 to CDT, I had him do a Turbo Super Tune which I think included a new spring, new hand made spring guide, GRT triggers, deburd, lubed and his magic touch...:)
I think my CFX .177 fps in in the high 800's to low 900's. I will show you my chrony results here at the end. One thing that is very important. Bob does not tune for high fps. He tunes for performance. The main thing is the deviation of fps between shots. The least amount of deviation the closer and more accurate is your groups. Consistancy is what I look for after each tune. And Bob has consistantly given me good deviation numbers on all my air guns after a major tune.
Looks like you have a winner there Khiem. Good Luck and happy hunting. And you are getting a good scope mount to boot..:)
Gene
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A shadow supreme is a .22, and going from 580 to 670 is pretty good with a 14g pellet
My S1k went from 880 to 965 with 7.9g pellet
both were much more consistant in speed.
Both had turbo with trigger...
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Compare our CFX' both with turbo tunes, both using the same pellet, I dont understand why there is a great defecit between our cfx'.? Can anyone help explain please? :0
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Kiem, there is a difference in pellet wt between your tests and mine. That would make yours a bit slower in fps. If you look at my two CFX results you will notice that one has slower fps than the other. What I go by is the deviation. The lower the deviation the tighter the groups are when shooting or hunting. Consistancy is the key to a good springer when it comes down to daily shooting.
I can't explain why your CFX has slower fps than mine. It could be your CFX is an oldermodel. I am aware of internal design changes. That may be the reason. Gamo advertises 1000 fps but generally you can knock off 20 to 30 percent because they use the lightest pellets on earth to test them.
Gene
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I will start that I am new to this and do not doubt about Charlies work AT ALL, but I can do the math. With the post tune velocity's his CFX is only getting about 40% of the advertised speed and I understand they use lighter pellets and you should not expect that. To me it seems that Kiem's assesment should be correct, that depending on pellet weight he should expect somewhere between 750 and low 900's, which is the 20% to 30% lower than advertised. I had always read that when there was a a drop in 200 fps or so that you should start looking for something being wrong, and since everyone else's speeds were higher and we know Charlie has painstakingly tuned it, and that all the seals and such are in perfect working order so that leaves us with what? It's a lemon? maybe it will increase after it breaks in from the tune? Did Charlie have any idea why or note that he thought it was low? So I can understand you question Kiem, I would have the same one. Thanks for sharing and I would love to know what you figure out.
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Perhaps your barrel is on the high-side of the diameter curve, and maybe you even got a box or two of pellets that are on the small side.
I threw out a tin of Gamo hunters whenmost all consistantly fit poorly in the breech.
Just a thought, but something is causing the problem, and CdT's ability to get the spring quiet and to deliver the most air seems pretty good to most of us who've used his services.
It may be one of those interesting problems that are not easy to track down, but there is help here.
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Well Peter, you have shed some lite on the situation. It is either a limon or something is not right. Maybe CDT will come back with some follow up.
Gene
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and that is, not all CFX's are the same for sure. I believe the Gamo CFX is a very good gun but one of the things that seems to be unique about the CFX is there is a lot of variation in velocity from gun to gun as most of us know, especially in the .177's.
One of the main factors for this is it seems that the bore diameters do seem to be of a slightly larger diameter. (A loose fitting pellet in a bore can have a huge impact on velocity of course). This seems to be especially true of the newer CFX's but was apparent in some of the earlier ones also. I don't know why that is and has been a subject discussed at length on some of the other forums in the past. The later CFX's with the serial number on the barrel do not have that problem.
I almost always use Gamo Hunters or Match pellets for pre-testing and post tune final testing. The reason being is that the Gamo Hunters or Match pellets seem to fit the chamber in most guns, and not just Gamo's, better than other pellets. That is not to say that it is the best pellet for the gun, it just seems to fit the chambers better. But in almost all of the CFX's, they seem to just about fall into the loading port as does just about any other pellet that I have tried. I'm sure that most of you that own CFX's are aware of that. Some pellets are so loose that they will just about fall through the bore. One thing that will help is DO NOT CLEAN THE BARREL and if you do, use only a dry patch.
Another thing that one needs to be aware of in the CFX is that after inserting a pellet into the loading port, it is very easy if the pellet is not completely inserted or the pellet skirt is distorted , to shear off tiny bits of the skirt as the port is being rotated and these particles can get between the rotating loading port cylinder and the barrel block and then gall the seal. This can also happen if there is loose lead particles on the pellet that can be transferred to the mechanism. If you are lucky, they may embed themselves into the seal and not cause a problem but that's not likely at least long term. Eventually they will cause seal damage. Also, many lubes can also damage the seal so be careful what you use in this area.
The thing that is disturbing about this is that it can possibly happen the very first time that you insert a pellet in a brand new gun or the hundredth time or possibly maybe never if you are lucky. When it does happen you will not even be aware of it until you start losing velocity.
One other very important thing to keep in mind. DO NOT ROTATE THE LOADING BLOCK UNLESS THE GUN IS COCKED. The pressure against the rotating block by the main spring can destroy or damage the seal in a heartbeat if rotated uncocked.
With all of that being said, when I finish up a CFX, I never know what to expect in velocity with any certainty. The one that Gene has is a rare exception to the rule for sure. There are a few other like his but the velocity in them is usually not that high.
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It would certainly be nice to know why it shot so low to begin with, and why the new seal/spring didn't bring up the velocity more.
It makes me think that the problem would have to be in the barrel diameter, or something else that wasn't changed by the tune.
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I would suggest you either go to JM's website and order a new seal http://www.airguns.citymax.com/catalog/item/251485/2325552.htm and spring http://www.airguns.citymax.com/catalog/item/251488/43410.htm, also remove the loading port once you have removed the spring and piston to make sure that the o'ring a 1mmx20mm that goes around it isn't torn or missing. Another possibilty is email "rich from mich" peterdragin@comcast.net and he makes and sales complete home tune kits, guide, tophat, spring and seals, others have been real happy with his products, and his prices for his stuff is dirt cheap!
I have a cfx that I did my own tune on guide, seal, spring, and deburr and I am pushing kodiak heavies at 798fps avg. and RWS superdomes at 937fps avg. with a max of +/- 3 fps.
http://www.airguns.citymax.com/catalog/item/251485/2325552.htm
http://www.airguns.citymax.com/catalog/item/251488/43410.htm
peterdragin@comcast.net
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I don't think I'd call it variations in Gamo performance....You should be seeing 800 fps at a bare minimum with a CFX in .177. Maybe you got a lemon, but then again, the tune should've fixed that. I hope you can find a way to get the problem remedied. Right now you've got an extremely weak and extremely expensive pea shooter. You can buy a croosman 760 from Walmart for $30 that does 600 fps.....................
Good luck getting the problem fixed.
Tim
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Hi Bill
Sounds like you are a shooter and tuner of your own air guns. It is nice that you are mechanically inclined enough to tune your own air guns. Some of us do not have the mechanical abillity to do these things. Some of let others do the tuning for us. If Khiem had tuned his own air gun do you think the CFX fps would of been any better? I personally do not tune my air guns. I let professional tuners like CDT, Mac 1 and Roy Weid from Mountain Air do the work for me because I do not know enough to tune an airgun. If I ran into some trouble, I would not know what to do. In addition, I do not have the tools it would take to do the job correctly.
I think that your tips are great on where to buy the parts. This is good for our forum members and I really appreciate your contributing the information. But like I said above, allot of us do not have the mechanical aptitude or the proper tools to do the tuning that the pros do.
With that said, I thank you for your input Personally I think that CDT would take back any air gun that he tuned if the client was unhappy with the results..
Gene
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Tim
I must say that you are very outspoken about the tuners warranty. Do you know CDT? Have you ever had a tune by CDT? CDT has been around a very long time and his work and reputation has been exceptional.
I think between Khiem and CDT they will work it out. Don't think they need any outside help.
Gene
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I notice that we have allot of visitors here tonight. Ones that I normally do not see on our forum. If we keep getting all this attention from the other forums then I will pull this post...
Gene
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I didn't hear any talk about warranty work being done. I didn't mean to be outspoken? I'm not here to stir up trouble, either. I just hope this poor fella can salvage something good out of this gun. I indicated that I think that Bob will remedy the problem.
I have had several dealings with Bob (CDT). All of them have been very positive. I do think that Khiem should know that the performance of his gun is way below average. I bet Bob will get that ole CFX fixed up right and smokin............
Tim
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Well this subject is all over the Gamo forum and CDT's buddy Steve in N.C. is at the root of it.
I think the Tuna will make it right with his customer, or at least try to find an answer.
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His gun HAS a new seal and Macarri spring in it. Doing the same thing over again will tend to yield the same results over again... if a new spring and seal didn't fix it before, why would it fix it now? Or is a suggestion being made that CDT didn't do what he said he'd do?
It would be far more prudent for someone to try to figure out what's wrong with the gun to begin with. After Charlie's work, the gun DID show a substantial increase in power (20-25%), which is expected. It sounds like its the original baseline that's the problem.
The gun almost certainly has an abnormal issue that Charlie didn't catch the first time around - perhaps something like an out-of-round compression tube or a seal mating face that isn't square.
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Sorry, Gene, but I think pulling this post is the wrong thing to do. That's exactly the kind of thing they do on the Yellow when someone gets a little too insistent in disagreeing with their agenda. It's a form of censorship, one of the worst forms, and doesn't belong on an open forum. We're all here to learn stuff about our hobby, and sometimes disagreements are the best way to learn. Those of us that know Bob, know the issue will be resolved to the satisfaction OF THE PARTIES INVOLVED, namely, Khiem and Bob. Those that have formed their opinions based on hearsay from other sources really don't matter. And if the end result is more people dropping in to look around this forum, that can only be a good thing. IMO... actually, bull, I'm not feeling the least bit humble.
Dave
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I agree with DaveD
I had a pang of worry just posting this message.
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Gene:
I just read through this entire post & I also have to respectfully ask you not to pull the post. We're all fairly adult here & can 'take the whoopin' & keep on cookin'. 8)
Mike
Edit: I also, am confident that CDT will resolve this issue to Mr. Nguyen's satisfaction.
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Ya Dave, you are right. I really do not want to get caught up in what others do. I almost forgot that this is not just my forum...:) The last thing I would want to do is stoop to what some others do.. Sorry everyone, I just got caught up in the moment..:) I will always listen to everyone's views and rationalize the best that I can.
All of you are a great bunch and I honestly appreciate all your input.
Thanks
Gene
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To do that would be playing right into their hands. That's not what the guys over here are all about. That's the difference we make. The only time that I feel that should happen is if we see something getting way out of hand and control is lost. Good call guys....and that's why this is your forum with you guys calling most of the shots and Gene and I listen, especially Gene. He don't miss nuttin' :D :D :D To cool Gene 8) 8) 8)
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and you see these indivuduals show up with 1 or 2 or 5 posts to their history.
Is there any doubt what their purpose is?
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Speaking of which, I took a look at the Who's Online page the other day, just for grins, and there was an invisible user listed. Gene, what's up with that? Did someone borrow Harry Potter's Invisibility Cloak? Just curious.
Dave
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Have never seen that before Dave...:) We have Guests but I do not allow them to post or see our personal info. Maybe it was someone with the name Invisible.:) I will have to look and let you know...
Nope I looked and no name "invisible" in our data base... Let me know if you ever see it again. Thank you.
Gene
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Is anyone still on-line? I'm brand new to high power airgunning---yet to buy my first rifle, but have been reading reviews, articles, reserching everything I can find--I was thinking about a CFX because of all the great press--but seeing this 600 fps really shocked/scared me!--I was also looking at the varmint hunter and the RWS 34---any thoughts? If I go the Gamo route I'll definitely be getting CDT's trigger. Any advice would be appreciated---I'd like to be able to take small game( crows, squirrels, etc.) at about 30-40 yds. as well as target shoot with my kids--thank you!!
BPHurns
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I have a CFX, and I love it. I wouldn't worry too much about the 600 fps stuff, that's NOT the norm for these guns. There are a lot of people on this and other forums that have CFX's, and the general consensus is pretty positive. Even Rolls Royce turns out a lemon every once in awhile. Although I don't own a Varmint Hunter, I have spent a lot of time with the older Varmint Stalker. They're both Shadows with some extra bells and whistles. Also an excellent rifle. I originally bought my CFX thinking that a fixed barrel would have to be more accurate than a break barrel. After doing lots of shooting with the Shadow, I don't think so any more. Also an excellent rifle, and probably a better choice for a beginner. The rotary breach on the CFX makes it a little more laborious to load and shoot compared to a break barrel. Either one of these guns would be more than adequate for small game out to 50 yards or so, with the right pellets, and enough practice to know where they will go. Most people seem to fee the Shadow is a hair more powerful, while the CFX is a hair more accurate. Having shot both quite a bit, I'd have to call it a toss up. Don't know a thing about the 34, other than that RWS makes some damn nice rifles. Someday I'll probably get a 48/52, but who knows, maybe it'll be one of the break barrel models. BTW, both Gamo's I've shot do very well with RWS Superdomes and JSB Exacts, both at about 8.4 gr. And with the typical velocities of these guns, that equates to around 14 fpe. So I hope this helps. Good luck, and let us know what you end up with.
Dave
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Thanks a ton, Daved--that really helps--its very difficult trying to decide--so many models of Gamo, etc. to choose from--know anything about the Gamo Hunter Pro Combo rated at 1200fps? The new one piece scope mount makes sense for stability. I too was leaning towards a cfx thinkng a fixed barrel by definition would be more accurate--but, I've got fairly big hands and i've seen other comments about it being difficult to load. Probably the varmint would be cool with the laser/light combo---any idea if the laser really helps? Sorry for the 3rd degree, but from what I've read, you're very knowledgeable.
Thanks again,
BPHurns
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Hey, BP,
I don't have any personal experience with the Hunter series, but as far as I know, the Hunters are basically Shadows with wooden stocks, with the exception of the 1250. And if that's not right, I'm sure someone will straighten me out :-). Regarding the 1200 fps, that number is based on using Gamo Raptor pellets. And even then, I suspect it's overly optimistic. Look around on this forum for posts on Gamo Raptor or PBA pellets. Bottom line for me is, I won't use them. I think they are basically a marketing gimick, and I also beleive they can actually damage my rifle. With the pellets I mentioned in the earlier post, you can expect realistic velocities of 850-950 fps. Possibly higher with one of the newer rifles, someone is doing some testing on the other Gamo forum of a new Shadow Sport. The damn thing just keeps getting faster the more they shoot it. With Gamo Hunter pellets (8.4 gr. advertised, actually 8?) they were getting velocities around 940 fps. And decent accuracy. I also don't know anything about the new 1 pc. scope mount, and I havne't seen any reviews yet. Based on some of the mounts they've used in the past, I wouldn't expect a lot. Fortunately, good mounts are available at a reasonable price, like under $20. I think the scope has gotten some okay reviews. As far as the laser/light combo, I thought they were just in the way with my friends Varmint Stalker. Looks cool, but I don't really think too many people actually use them or need them. Finally, I wouldn't say that the CFX is difficult to load, it just takes getting used to, and developing a technique that works. And it's definitely not as straight forward as a break barrel. Hope this helps, and no apology needed "for the 3rd degree". What goes around comes around, you're doing exactly what I did, just a few months ago.
Dave
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Thanks, Dave!
I'm sure you remember the difficulty in choosing--I'm pretty sure all the gamo's would be pretty good choices--I think i like the idea of the ease of loading a break barrel.
Regards,
BP
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Hey BP, Dave hit it on the nail head. I don't think I could of put it any clearer. If you have a Wall Mart near you, they sell the Shadow for around $125.00. I just bought one last week.
Anyway it is a toss up with me also with the S1K and the CFX. Both are excellent air guns for the price..
Good Luck and welcome aboard..
Gene
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Thanks for the info Gene, I'll probably pick up an sk1 combo---seems like a good deal to get the combo since i want a scope anyway. I appreciate all of your guidance and wisdom--very helpful.
Regards,
BP :)
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...that Khiem, Charlie, and myself are now aware of....
Don't tolerate a manufacturer's defect.
Granted, without a chrony, Khiem didn't know his CFX was so weak. And in defense of CDT, weak guns from the factory often have a simple defect that a major overhaul like a turbo-tune will fix. In retrospect, everyone probably would have been better off if CDT just told him to send it back to Gamo... but that's hindsight. If the gun's problem was a simple one like a busted spring or bad seal, CDT's work would normally have fixed it.
Unfortunately, nobody knew the extent of the problem until the fix didn't work. And in the process of finding that out, the warranty was voided.
I learned that on a Benji-Legacy 1000. Out of the box, it had a simple defect that took me only a few minutes to fix - but only after voiding the warranty! THAT problem went away, and I quickly discovered the myriad of OTHER problems the gun had - scored compression tube, weak spring, weak barrel lock-up, and a rear sight that changed elevation adjustment when the gun was fired.
Lesson? Always start with a reasonably healthy specimen... or be willing to accept the risks.
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Hi everyone,
Another new guy here :D
When I had gotten my first CFX back in Nov. of 2003 it came in a box with a rating of 787fps on it. No typo, 787 fps! That gun was shooting Gamo match pellets at around 730 fps. At one point Gamo C/S told me that it was a typo on the box, and another time they told me that it could be a lower power model. I ended up sending it back and got a replacement (this replacment rifle was in a box listed 1000 fps rating) which shot the same pellets in the lower 900's. I never did find out if it was a defective rifle or a low power (as suggested by C/S)model.
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Thanks Mark and welcome to your new forum. We hope you can keep coming back and posting some more of your experiences. As you have read there has been quite a bit of posting about Khiem's CFX. I think that he had gotten one like you had and did not know anything was wrong with it.
Anyway Mark, we have a Library full of tech info for your reading. Feel free to make any suggestions you like that may improve or inrich our forum. Our group here are very mature and with many years of combined experience.
Good Luck and Welcome Aboard
Gene
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Thanks for the welcome Gene.
I've enjoyed reading these forums for a while now and finally took the plunge to register. Though I've been shooting for years, my technical knowledge is, shall we say, rudimentary at best.
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Glad to have more members like yourself Mark. Stick with us and we will all learn more...:)
Gene