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General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Airgun Gate => : crisancosmin19 July 07, 2008, 03:24:05 PM

: First adult air rifle
: crisancosmin19 July 07, 2008, 03:24:05 PM

Hi there! I need your help and opinions. I finally raised the $$ (400-ish) for my first adult air rifle. I do not think I will turn into a collector any time soon, so this rifle has to be my "everything" rifle. I will not hunt (much), all I like to do is plink at long ranges (I will try to train for the 50 to 100 yards range).

I have narrowed down my choices to RWS Diana 350 Magnum and Benjamin Discovery, both in .177.  As you can see, 2 very different rifles. The first WAS  my clear, no doubts about it choice, until the Discovery came along. So now, I have a huge dillema. I could live with the steep magnum springer learning curve the Diana offers, but, as far as the Discovery is concerned, besides the fact that I just love it, just because, I am a bit afraid of future complications (leaks, valves and so on).

To keep it short, you will make the decision for me .  Thank you! :)

: RE: First adult air rifle
: melloroadman July 07, 2008, 03:54:59 PM

Cosmin I dont know if either of these rifles will do the 100 yard mark with any reliability. That's a long shot for a air rifle  . I have a Discovery in .177 that I call my go to gun . I do target only at this time. Today I had the Discovery at the 50 yard range and that's about as far as the .177 is going to shoot accurately at . You might get 60 yards but it will take a lot of work on your part . I was able to get a 6 shoot group about the size of a quarter one time. I was using CPH 10.5 pellets and if I cranked the power all the way up the pellets wet to fast and I had flyers . The group I mentioned was with a 1700 fill at shoot 10 -16 with stock spring and the power adjuster turned in one turn . I played with the fill pressure and power adjuster and from what I could see of the pellet in flight with the scope on 24 power the pellet was my issue . The average group for 10 shoots was 2 inches. The pellet either went to fast or ran out of gas to keep it as tight as I would have liked . A heaver pellet would help but that leaves you with a Beeman super arrow at 11.5 in the .177 and I dont know if that would be enough of a difference to do the trick . So a .22 for that range would probable do a little better IMO. But all in all I am very happy with my Discovery and for about $25 I can convert it to a .22 if I decide to . But now I have a .357 to use for my long range target shooting so I dont know if I need to do that . I might add that at 25 yards the Discovery will keep 20 shoots in a 1/2 group so you see there is quite a difference here. Marvin

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Progun July 07, 2008, 04:02:38 PM

Cosmin, Welcome aboard.and glad to see you here. I don't have a Discovery but I have shot the RWS350 for at least 10 years.There really isn't much of a learning curve that you can't easily handle with this fine German made spring piston rifle. It has a great trigger right from the factory and will shoot all the long shots you care to take. These guns are very accurate and yes it does have a noticeable recoil but it really packs a punch on target. Leapers is coming out with a new scope mount for this rifle that will make it easier to scope although a lot of us have been doing just fine with the mounts that have always been available.The rifle also lends itself to being easy to tune and it is not "new" on the market.(no bugs that haven't been worked out). If you shop around you can find some good deals for less than you expect to pay.Since it's a break barrel springer all you do is cock it, insert a pellet in the breech and shoot. No pumping required and you never run out of air.RWS has one of the best warranty's in the industry to boot.In addition, should you ever decide to sell it it will be snapped up quick. And for a final plus .177 ammo is much less expensive than the other calibers.Ask Joe/ airgun cuz who is a member here to get you a good deal from the dealer he works for.(Cobra Air Guns).There are many other members here who will also give you good testimonials about the 350. Timmy, Only 1 harry, Long Island Hunter  just to name a few. I'm not bad mouthing the Discovery mind you as many of the members here are fans of the Discovery(melloroadman). This is just my opinion and I'm sure you will get others to offer theirs as well. Good luck with your choice and again welcome to the GTA.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Timmyj1959@yahoo.com July 07, 2008, 04:37:15 PM

Grab your gun,, grab some pellets,,, Get Er Done!!!!! The Diana 350 Magnum,, is a Classic!!! Show me a match for the POWER,, ACCURACY,, & value,,,,,, When I get the money,, I will buy one!!! A Better Magnum value?? PLEASE enlighten me!! LOL!!  Tim.

: RE: First adult air rifle
: Splash July 07, 2008, 04:49:22 PM

First off welcome to the forum. Now Comes the tough part, as you can see most are leaning towards the R9, which is a fine rifle, but it takes finess to be able to be consistent with it. Springers are a totally diff animal, so I would recomend the 350 for a first. I'm not trying to turn you against it, but I don't think it would be right for a first. I've got a few and everyone that has shot them, wants my MA2250xt.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Timmyj1959@yahoo.com July 07, 2008, 04:51:38 PM

P.S. Dont think I did not pay attention at Genes house recently,,,,,,The "Dark Side" is a callin me LOL!!!!! Just something about the conveinence of "Grab & Go" springers that will always be a part of me,, & many others Im shure!! Tim.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Timmyj1959@yahoo.com July 07, 2008, 05:02:15 PM

A Poll????? First Adult air gun?? Pretty simple choice,, RWS (Diana) 34 Panther (Or "Classic" wood stock version)  Tim.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Splash July 07, 2008, 05:06:46 PM

AHHH FEEL the force,hehe. Tis nice if ya got the dough, for all of the extra stuff, just glad that I got a buddy that gave me a tank,hehe. I wish I could afford to get more.

: RE: First adult air rifle
: TCups July 07, 2008, 10:42:24 PM

Accurate shots at 50-100 yards in a "first" adult air gun is going to stretch your budget and your air rifle to the limit.  Kind of like saying you'd really like or your first car to be a Ferrari but on a budget more in line with a Toyota or a Honda.  Not to say it can't be done, but practically speaking, 25-50 yards seems to be the real world for most airgunners,  And for the longer shots, a good mil dot scope is a likely investment, on top of the cost of the rifle.  Leapers and BSA come to mind.  With mounts, there goes $100 to $150 or so.  I agree with Splash about the Mountain Airguns 2250-XT.  These are really great airguns, but CO2 guns are temperature-sensitive and mostly like warm environments.  So,the Toyota (or should I say, Audi?) -  Beeman R9; the Volkswagen - Diana 34 Panther;  the Mercedes Benz - RWS 54 recoilless; the Ferrari - Theoben Eliminator.  And then, there is the "Dark Side" . . .

: RE: First adult air rifle
: airgun/cuz July 07, 2008, 11:15:41 PM

COSMIN,,,,First & Foremost,,WELCOME TO A WONDERFULL GTA, WACKEY AIRGUN FAMILY!...I went through the same thing,undecided on which should be my first big name airgun......350 MAG....R-9.......RX-2.....Well after about two week of twisting & turning,I decided on all three,with the power monster 350 mag first up to the plate(recently sold)....The RX-2..was second in line &  will never be sold(just an absolute beauty)....it took me about four months of listening to many wackey R-9 owners bragging about this toy(or at least I thought so)...you know what they say about thought ?....Finally I grew a set & bought an R-9 GOLDFINGER,,,,What a jerk I was....I will say this everyday for the rest of my life....I SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT THE R-9 MUCH SOONER THAN I HAD....Hands down the perfect all around air-rifle....not over-powered, just enough to handle your daily small game hunts yet soft enough to shoot paper in your yard(or your neighbors widow,when they annoy you)..just kidding...LOL!......Plus it's made by WEIHRAUCH,one of the top manufacturers ever......If you have ever taken advice from anyone,this is what I will say......BUY AN R-9, TAKE TWO ASPIRIN & CALL ME IN THE MORNING.....The aspirin are for your headache you will get from becoming extremely excited after shooting this baby....ask, PEAKCHICK, LONGISLANDHUNTER,BIG BILL,FATBACK,SPORT171,TCUPS, & One of our favorites(I can't say because he has to post it first)what it feels like when you first shoot an R-9.......GOOD LUCK!

: RE: First adult air rifle
: HNT5 July 08, 2008, 12:13:11 AM

If your budget is for rifle, scope and mounts here one option. Natchez Shooter's Supply has Gamo 440 .177 cal for $99. Send it to Charlie for a tune $ 150.  Grab a BSA 3X12X44 for $55 bucks and a good mount for about $50 and you are still under the $400 budget.

Nathan

: RE: First adult air rifle--BSA
: Bhawanna July 08, 2008, 12:57:12 AM

Plinking at 100 yards?.....C'mon.  sure its fun to "reach out and touch someone" but serious plinking will be under 35 yards.  i would recommend the BSA Lightning XL.  this is one sweet gun straight out of the box.  very smooth and doesn't need tuning.  i know all the rws, beeman, and gamo guys are freakin' over my suggestion.  YOU gotta own one to know what i'm talking about.  ask peakchick or gene, they will tell you this is a sweet gun with enough power to take tree rats at 25 yards.  mine will chrony 870 fps with cph's. and that's straight out of the box!  you can pick one up in the $400 range and this will be a gun you will always want to keep.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: riarcher July 08, 2008, 01:07:02 AM

HNT5 - I like your thinking. About what I've done.
But, where do you find the BSA scopes at $55?
Been looking, best is around $70/80,, and all out of stock.

I'd vote for a quality used gun in (near) excellent condition and get her tuned also.
I'd be looking at a used R9, etc. if I was to do it again,,, and I'm sure I will.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: HNT5 July 08, 2008, 01:17:34 AM

I got one from Natchez along with a 4X32 BSA The 3X12X44 was IIRC right around $55. I think they are pretty good scopes for the money and I have yet to have a BSA airgun scope fail on a spring gun. Having said that I probably jinxed myself! I agree the R-9 platform is a great gun. I have a R-10 Carbine deluxe and the HW quality is top notch. But a R-9, even used, will eat up a good portion of his budget. If he wants scope and mounts in that $400, I looked for a lower end way to go. One other option would be either a tuned B-26 or B-40 from Mike Melick. That would get him a tuned rifle well within his budget. Choices, choices...
Regards

Nathan

: Re: First adult air rifle
: tjk July 08, 2008, 01:35:20 AM

Although I agree with everyone's opinions, I'll offer my two cents.These GTA folks are great people to cooresponde with, and provide a wealth of knowledge in the sport, as well as friendship and comradary. Nathans idea is the closest suggestion to me as far as being on a tight budget. Yeah you can buy a super nice high dollar rifle if you've got the 'disposible income', but just think how great you'd feel showing up with what J calls a "beater" to a shoot out. Trick it out with a tune and some accesories, and out shoot those fellas  with their fancy rifles. Kinda *_*_*_*_*_* 'em off LOL's Then you can talk a little $#!t.  I personally get alot of satisfaction taking something and improveing it to it's fullest potential.  There are tons of decent rifles out there, and with a bit of determination and work, they can be developed into great weapons. OK folks, that's my opinion. Now you can all "bash" me!!! LOL's Happy Shooting, tjk

: RE: First adult air rifle--BSA
: airgun/cuz July 08, 2008, 02:10:17 AM

Roger,I absolutely agree with what you said.....   It is a bit more pricey,but definitely a great choice....as for my personal taste I would rather spend the extra money on something that I know is ready for business,right out of the box......I have tuned rifles & luv every bit of them,but for me I would rather put the exta cash into the better gun.....

: Edit to above
: Splash July 08, 2008, 02:22:19 AM

I meant to say, that I wouldn't recomend the 350 for a first, or any magnum springer for that matter. Sorry guys, but I don't feel that a Magnum springer, is what you want to cut your teeth on. You would probably get discouraged and give up, before you learned the proper technique, needed to be consistent with it.

: RE: Edit to above
: airgun/cuz July 08, 2008, 02:50:53 AM

Mkey Splash,You are correct,I can see how one can become discouraged over shooting the 350 & try to maintain consistant accuracy..I feel a lighter rifle would be much easier.....

: Re: First adult air rifle
: melloroadman July 08, 2008, 03:10:38 AM

Now that I have considered your question and think you understand the 50 - 100 yard shooting with a air rifle a little better . I recant my statement and out of the two I would go with the .177 Discovery and change it over to .22 when I got to a point of long distance shooting. I am surprised that no one mentioned to you the 350 is known to be a heavy recoil and a scope eater which makes it a poor choice for me to recommend as a entry level air rife. I know at this time you think you can get by with one purchase but that's like saying I only need to buy one car to last me my life time . To answer your other question about the up keep of the Discovery it should be minimal and parts are easy to get and cheap. There is up keep on springers as well . Springs and seals do not last for ever . I went the springer rout at first and still own several but the firing cycle of them almost turned me away from air gunning it can be frustrating to say the least . The smoothness of the Discovery will allow you to enjoy the sport and perfect your shooting style so you can advance in your shooting with out the hold sensitive and recoil issues of a springer. If you said you were going to plink and hunt then the springer would be a better choice . But to start with target practice and truly want consistency and enjoyment then the PCP I believe will give you more enjoyment . This is just my opinion being said not to offend any one or any type of rifle. Marvin

: RE: First adult air rifle
: TexasShooter72 July 08, 2008, 03:30:38 AM

The RWS 350 Mag will do you no wrong, HOWEVER...   it's a kicker and isn't always the best suited for plinking.  In my opinion, a good all around shooter would be a .177 caliber RWS Model 34.  You'll get a limited lifetime warranty on defective parts, they come very nicely made and it'll keep a few bucks in your pocket.  Out of the box most rifles can stand a little improvement whereas the 34 comes very well made.  Another choice if you don't mind a pump rifle is a Benjamin 392(.22).  It's American made(New York) and are still made of decent quality.  There are many to choose from.  Very few will do you wrong!   :p

: get a LOW power rifle first
: ac12basis July 08, 2008, 05:29:17 AM

For the first air rifle, I recommend a LOW powered rifle.  
Just like learning on a 22RF before you move on to a .30 center fire.

If you go for the Diana 350, get a LOW powered spring rifle like the R7/HW30 or similar.  That will let you work on your spring technique easier than starting on a magnum.  While the R7 is rather pricy, you should be able to find an equivalent low powered springer for near the $100 price point.  Might need a bit of work/tuning but the result should be good.  Besides, you can shoot all day w a low power springer, whereas a magnum will tire your arm out a lot sooner.

The Discovery does not have the spring recoil/vibration of the 350, but a nice low powered alternative would be nice as well.  How about a Daisy 953, available for about $80.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Progun July 08, 2008, 11:22:32 AM

Cosmin, Gary is right in my opinion  about starting out with a lower powered rifle to begin with. Learning to shoot and idiosyncrsies and maintenance issues makes more sense with a lesser powered rifle. Your first car for the same reasons isn't a Formula 1 race car.Of the two options you gave I suggested the 350. But if you are willing to consider others I will say based on my own personal experience after owning and shooting many air rifles for almost 20 years that when I finally bought a Beeman R-9 Goldfinger .177 combo I liked it so much that I realized that  that if I had just bought it sooner I might not have bought a lot of the other guns.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: crisancosmin19 July 08, 2008, 12:08:35 PM

Guys,thank you for your overwhelming response. You are great.
I now realise a few things I forgot to mention. This rifle that I will be buying will by no means be my first. I am 27 right now. I started at 12 on a german made LG .177, breakbarrell, then I bought another german underlever, also in .177 ( the brand starts with N..., I forgot the name). So, I think I can shoot decent with springers. My personal best is a bottle cap at about 25 yrds, open sights.
I am sorry for not mentioning this before. If you feel you need to change your opinion, in light of this newpiece of  information, please do so, as your opinions matter a lot.
Also, the $400 will also be only for the rifle. Scopes and mounts can wait 1 or 2 months.
Thank you again.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Splash July 08, 2008, 01:10:03 PM

Then why the title "First adult air rifle"?(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)

: Re: First adult air rifle
: crisancosmin19 July 08, 2008, 01:12:46 PM

The previous rifles I owned, I tend to consider them as ''beginner", because they were quite cheap (50$, 60$). This is a major investment for me.
Sorry if I confused u guys. :(

: Re: First adult air rifle
: TCups July 08, 2008, 01:55:34 PM

On careful reflection, I am not sure I have met an "adult" air gunner.  Most, like me, are just big kids having fun -- but perhaps at adult prices, I suppose.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: crisancosmin19 July 08, 2008, 02:24:18 PM

You are so right! Same mile-wide silly grins, only at a higher cost.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Bhawanna July 08, 2008, 02:26:31 PM

Once again......BSA Lightning XL.  bite the bullet.  check the used prices, these guns hold their value but once you own it, you won't want to get rid of it.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Machinist July 08, 2008, 03:44:01 PM

Cosmin:

If the purpose of the desired rifle is to shoot distances of 50 to 100 yards, any breakbarrel has by design has quite a handicap, regardless of price or brand name especially if you plan to use a scope attached to the receiver/spring tube.

For example, with a working breakbarrel pivot clearance of only a half thousandth (.0005) 2" below the top of the barrel, shot to shot POI variance could be 0.900 inches at a 100 yard target. With a fixed barrel that 0.900 variance does not exist and the POI is that much closer to your POA.

Thus my recommendation in a RWS would be any one of the fixed barrel 46 series underlevers, and for long range the 460 which is also an underlever and loading is as convenient as a breakbarrel. This selection may seem a bit heavy scoped which is good and if too heavy you have a good excuse to go to a gym.

If considering anything other than a springer, you might ask your self how much crap you want to lug around.

Mike

: THANKS MIKE THOSE NUMBERS ARE VERY HELPFUL N/T
: melloroadman July 08, 2008, 03:50:07 PM

N/T

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Timmyj1959@yahoo.com July 08, 2008, 04:04:54 PM

50- 100 + Yards?? Personally,, I prefer really big "pellets" that  are comonly refered to as,, centerfires!!LOL!! Just funnin of course! Tim.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Machinist July 08, 2008, 04:35:19 PM

Tim:
Even in jest you make a good point.

: BUT ITS FUN TO PRESS THE OUTER LIMITS N/T
: melloroadman July 09, 2008, 07:47:53 AM

N/T

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Jaymo July 09, 2008, 12:16:49 PM

I'd save a couple more hundred dollars and get a Beeman R1 or HW77/97, depending on whether you prefer break barrel or under lever. They're both made by Weihrauch and nicer than an RWS. I like RWS but they're just not as nice as a Weihrauch and don't have as nice a trigger. Plus the plastic trigger parts on the 48 just bother me. You really have to look hard to find a nicer springer than a Weihrauch. They're just absolutely beautifully made. They're the kind of airguns you'll be proud to own. Once you hold and shoot one, you begin to understand why they cost around $600.00.

: Re: First adult air rifle
: Jaymo July 09, 2008, 12:18:20 PM

And once you've held/shot a Weihrauch, you'll throw rocks at anything made by El Gamo.

: realistic range?
: ac12basis July 10, 2008, 03:16:53 PM

Have you modified your range requirement?
That 50-100 yard range for a pellet gun is pushing more than the limit.
With a little light .177 pellet that isn't aerodynamicaly shaped you are going to have to read the wind like someone shooting a center fire at over 500 yards.
A .22RF has more mass than a .22 pellet, and I've had trouble at 100 yards.

: Quest
: gunsup0331 July 11, 2008, 01:09:35 PM

If you still like springers after this gun then you are a trooper. LOL

: I kinda like beaters, probably why I mentioned it . . .
: 3n00n July 13, 2008, 06:10:33 PM

Got it used,added the tuneand wasstillless than $500 with glass and mounts. Then, went outto Lavon, Tx andwon againsta.177 Whiscombe JW 75 FT shot by a more experienced shooter.

Granted ~it was an 'on' day, but sure can't shoot FTwell with a below par bbgun. Especially in the.22cal flavor.Ya know?

(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u64/3n00n/52-2.jpg)

: What El Gamo have you got?
: 3n00n July 14, 2008, 11:21:22 AM

Daisy 120?130? 131? Gamo Cadet? If you've got a line on some of these low power plinkers, we can probably work a trade for a .177HW in R9 Rekordflavor . . .