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PCP - HPA - C02 Gate => PCP DarkSiders Forum => : masterdiverstx July 26, 2008, 11:50:34 AM
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Hi all,
I am looking to "turn to the dark side" aswell and get a PCP rifle. I currently own a springer and like it very much but want something more accurate. Accuracy is my thing, so single shot, bolt actions, repeaters makes no difference to me. I probably begin with a pump then upgrade to a scuba fill kit. Living in the U.S. Virgin Islands, dive shops are eveywhere so no problem. All sugestions are welcome. Thanks in advance!
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Hey, Nowel, how much money you got to spend :-)? For a first PCP on a budget, I'd recommend a Big Ed tuned BAM B51. Thumbhole stock, good power and accuracy, Chinese clone of a very nice English rifle. The same gun in a standard sporter stock is called a B50, but I don't think it fits nearly as well. Expect to pay around $350.
If you have the cash, any of the Air Arms S4XX rifles would be tough to beat. The S400 is a singe shot bolt action, the S410 is a ten shot repeater. Available in a variety of configurations and power levels, priced from around $650 to over $1000.
If you're a tinkerer and/or like something modular, the Air Force Talon or Condor would be worth looking at. The Talon is the base model, runs around $450 as I recall, then the Talon SS, shorter but fully shrouded barrel for those with noise concerns, about $480, and the Condor is the power house, somewhere over $500. The nice thing about the AF guns is you can mix and match tanks and barrels, everything interchanges.
If power is your thing, look at some of the Korean rifles, most do in excess of 50 fpe, and the Dragon Slayer is a .50 cal. that's rated at 200 fpe, as I recall.
No experience with the Korean guns, but I've owned a B50, 2 Talon SS's with various barrels and other stuff, and just recently got an older AA S400 in trade for one of my Talons. No question, the Air Arms is top of the heap, but they are all good guns. I know there are lots of other choices, and I'm sure others will chime in. These are the ones I'm familiar with, and would feel comfortable recommending to a friend. BTW, welcome aboard, and hope that helps. Later.
Dave
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I just recently fell into the "Darkside" heh heh....I got lucky....bought the BSA Scorpion T10 and a Air Arms 410S (carbine)....both are very accurate 10 shot air rifles. The Scorpion is abit heavier and longer than the 410S.....but with it's bull barrel, it's quieter. The Scorpion's bolt action requires abit more arm muscle to cock and load a pellet, while the 410S's side lever just require one finger. I'msure there's alot of accurate PCP's out there.....I'm no expert on the topic though.
But I know what you mean.....a springer will move off target after a shot (Unless it's well tuned), while most PCP's have no recoil. My two PCP's stay on target after each shot.....I can just keep the stock to my shoulder and keep on shooting....see each pellet hit where it's aimed at. Or getting one holers.(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif)
With a pump and a PCP....the price will set you back around $700.00 or more....unless you get a Discovery....which I think is about $400.00....not too sure about that though.
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I have been trying to narrow down my choices from the following: Air Force Condor HPA, Air Arms S400, or a FX rifle (Typhoon, Cyclone, Monsoon). Any reviews or comments on these rifles?
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AA 400 hands down would be my first choice, had a talon and didnt like it nothing wrong with it just didnt fit me well.
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Have to agree with Jon on the S400, only difference is, I LIKE my Talon :-). I just did a review of my recently acquired older S400E, here's the link: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9384&mid=69231#M69231
As I said, I like my Talon, but I don't think it's the best gun for someone getting a first PCP, especially if you want something ready to go right out of the box. I've heard good things about the FX rifles, but never had any experience with them. As I understand it, the newer Air Arm guns have an even more effective shroud, and the side lever cocking is supposed to be a big improvement over the bolt. Add in adjustable power, and life just doesn't get much better. Later.
Dave
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I only own a BSA PCP, but of the choices you've listed, the AA S400 is hands down the best for a first gun in that price range, both from what I've read on the various forums and from the personal experiences of my shooting buds( Some of whom have 25 or more air rifles). I would recommed looking at the BSA's, too. All the ones I've seen are fantastically accurate, including mine. Most guys that get an AirForce spend a ton of money getting the gun jut to their liking. Monsoons are neat with the rapid fire, but the guys I know say the FX's are kind of labor intensive to keep shooting well. Whatever you get, you'll love the ease of shooting one well!
Ric G
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I would agree with Rick, take a look at BSA PCP rifles. They are indeed very, very accurate and have a reputation for being very reliable. The BSA PCP rifles are also very competitively priced when comparing them the the AA, FX, and other higher end PCP guns. I have a BSA Ultra, that I got from the great folks at Cobra Air Guns. I couldn't be more tickled with this fine, accurate little rifle.
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Wouldn't the Evanix or the Sumatra from Korea be a good choice. I only know from reading reviews but both get excellent write ups.
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Jon is right about the the AA air rifles. I own two of them and both are tack drivers. I also own a FX Cyclone which is a tack driver as well. If you are looking to shoot for accuracy , the Air Arms 400 410 are in my opinion your best choice. If you are looking for power and not the precision accuracy then you can go with the chinese pcp's. Also there are many other things to lookfor besides accuracy and power as well. So do your homework and remember you want to pick the right air rifle for the style of shooting you like best. Gene
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I understand the rifles I mention are Korean, not Chinese. This from the folks at Pyramyd Air.
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Sorry for the wrong ethnic name...:) I concider Korean PCP's to be excellent for power. I have owned a Sumatra and it was just to much for me..:) Fairly accurate but no where near an English made PCP, but then again the English PCP's are not of the same power either. Just depends on what you want to shoot at. If you buy a high powered PCP like the Korean or Chinese made ones and find you would rather shoot closer distance and have more consistant accuracy in my opioon the two I mentione on my previous post would be the one's I would choose....:) Gene
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Hi Rixtrix, can you give abit more "heads-up" on the FX's....what do you mean by "Labour Intensive"? I'm thinking inthe near future I might get a FX Whisper or Cyclone. Thanks. Is there a forum which FX owners hang out?
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Glad you like your Ultra, Stephanie. Did your's come with the mini-SAS or the full sized SAS Muzzle thingy? Mine was the short one and not quiet at all, so I got a new one from Rich in Mich that's quite effective. Btw, I got my Ultra through Airguns of Arizona.
Ric G
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Had two friends with Monsoons that either developed leaks monthly, or would jam up if fired rapidly a lot. Seems like the guys were always fiddling with them and never shooting them( maybe that was the problem?!). I'd recommend a BSA Multishotin whatever style suits your taste if you want that capacity. JMO
Ric G
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Thanks Rixtrix...I'll do more research before I drop some money on the FX's. I'll most likely stick with the multi-shot FX Whisper or Cyclone....not the semi-auto Monsoon and the other one...I believe it's the Renegade or something. Btw, I already own a BSA and an Air Arms, both 10 shot repeaters....and they're fantastic air rifles to shoot
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I love my Ultra Rick! Being very fond of lightweight, hunting carbines, the Ultra is a perfect match for me. My Lightning XL and now my Ultra have sold me on the build quality and accuracy of BSA rifles. My Ultra has, I believe, the full size moderator. My Ultra is very quiet!
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The English PCP's offer great accuracy and fair power depending on the model you look at. I have to say though that my old Korean Career 707 II in .177 was THE most accurate PCP I've ever owned. I can't speak about the Sumatra though as I only owned my Sumatra for less than a month and never did any real distance shooting with it. The Chinese guns can be a bit of a crap shoot, I've owned two Chinese PCP's and one was bone stock and "ok" accurate, but I also have a pro tuned Chinese PCP and the groups are somewhere between spectacular and fantastic. My pro tuned Chinese B51 has a stock barrel, but has had the barrel lathe crowned and velocity set for a really tight fps spread, less than 25 fps in a 30+ shot string. The English PCP's have an excellent fit and finish, and generally don't need a bunch of work to shoot straight out of the box. The Chinese guns usually need at least a little TLC before they can reach their full potential, the Korean guns can also have some issues from the factory. Personally I think it comes down to a few things, budget, use, tinkerability(if that's even a word).
Use: If you are going to hunt, and going to hunt larger game the Korean guns are a good way to go. If you are planning to pop starlings then power isn't an issue with any of these guns for the most part. If you think you'll need quick followup shots consider a repeater, if you are mostly shooting from a bench then a single pellet tray may suit you better.....I've owned 3 repeater PCP's and now own 3 single load PCP's, just don't need a magazine full of pellets from a bench. Non-repeating PCP's generally cost a little less, if you don't need it or REALLY want it, then buying a better single shot gun may be better than buying a cheaper multi-shot gun. Also worth considering is noise, if you shoot in your small suburban backyard then most of the Korean guns are going to drive your neighbors crazy, might be better off looking at the fully shrouded Eauropean guns.
Budget: What can you afford? Figure out what you are willing to spend, select a few guns that fall into that price range and select the one that fits you best for your use. Don't forget, to realise the accuracy of many of these guns a decent scope and mounts is needed also, keep that in mind when you budget.
Tinkerability: If you're going to tear it down to the o-rings and fiddle with hammer springs, then maybe look at the Chinese guns, they will need some tinkering. You could also buy a fully tuned Chinese gun for a few $$$ more and still have a good gun at a fair price. Me personally have no inclination to tear down my beautiful Air Arms S400C just to see how it works, but tearing into a Chinese B50 wouldn't bother me at all. If I was going to buy another Chinese PCP I would definately shell out the few extra $$$ and get one that is fully tuned....I've owned both and would never buy one un-tuned again.
hth,
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nt
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Thanks Ric!
How have you been btw? Haven't seen much of you in the past few months. Hope all has been well:)
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Will think you will find the FX Cyclone and Whisper to be as reliable as the BSAs. The Monsoon is an entirely different animal, and is really tricky if you decide to try adjusting the trigger. Once you do that, there are several other adjustments that need to be made to keep the rifle working properly. This is not a gun for an amateur to tinker with. Talk with Kip or Steve at AoA before you buy, but I don't think you will go wrong with either of your choices.
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Thanks for the heads-up hdcharlie. You would think FX would make the gun (Monsoon) more user friendly with it's expensive price tag. I guess it's abit like the Air Force Talon and Condor......I read that they need abit of tinkering before they become sweet.
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Nowel:
Accuracy? Don'f fool around with any of those lesser PCP's, Bro. I am staying pure and saving myself for one of these:
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Tom, I am sending off the adoption papers before Peak beats me to it... hehe
Gene
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Sorry, Gene. I am already trying to adopt Joe Cuz. He's a lot cuter.
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But Tom, I talk much slower and have no accent.. hehe
Gene
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Yes, but Joe Cuz definitely speaks my language, even with that funny accent.
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I'm assuming the adoption comes with a new FWB rifle (of my choice), my own garage space and weekends at the mountain cabin Tommy..............
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OK, OK! Stephanie, Gene and Joe! Come on down. One big happy family. But Gene and Joe have to share a room and Stephanie has to let me drive her Yamaha from time to time. And we will have to build a bigger gun room.
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TCups - 9/7/2008 7:52 PM
Nowel:
Accuracy? Don'f fool around with any of those lesser PCP's, Bro. I am staying pure and saving myself for one of these:
My 603 JR is scheduled to arrive Thursday. I can hardly sleep....my first match grade rifle. Thankfully that purchase (along with a glove and sling) emptied the disposable income vault; as I have just become interested in these futuristic looking FWB and Steyr PCPs. Maybe next year.
Sorry i cannot offer the OP any assistance....but then these's lots of good advice in this thread already.
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Something like this one...
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8907/steyrlg110flyergl4.jpg) (http://'http://imageshack.us/')
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OH MY GOD!!! THAT IS BEAUTIFUL! I AM IN LOVE!!!!!
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With a gun like the Steyr LG110....you don't want to bring it outside...it's too beautiful to get some dirt on her.