GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Hunting Gate => : GoodOlRWS45 August 10, 2008, 05:04:32 PM
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I'm sure this has been discussed on this forum somwhere, but I can't find any real numbers on distances. I realize that depending on what game I am hunting I need a certain amount of power to kill humanely. I'm looking for not only info on how much energy is needed to kill game, such as pidgeons, squirrels, etc, but also some kind of calculation chart, or at least a formula for figuring out what the maximum distance for a given pellet, at a given muzzle velocity, at which I could accomplish a humane kill.
For example: I'm shooting an RWS 45 at about 900 FPS at the muzzle, with a 8.4 grain JSB exact pellet. To quickly kill a pidgeon, at what distance would my pellet still be moving at a high enough velocity to produce a humane kill? If it takes a minimum of 6 ft/lbs, then this particular pellet must be traveling at 567 ft per second at impact, or faster. So, what distance would this be at 250 above sea level? So, i'm looking for a calculator where i could plug in the BC, Weight, muzzle velocity, ambient air pressure, etc, and get an idea of what my limits are with any given combination.
Sorry for the newbie question, and thanks for any and all info you can give me.
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Do a Google search for Chairgun or Chairgun II, it's a ballistics program that will have all the info you're looking for. It's free to download, but registering it is cheap, like $20, and gets you some additional bells and whistles. Plus it helps the guy that wrote it support and upgrade it. If you have trouble finding it, let me know and I'll either dig up a link or send you a copy. Later.
Dave
PS Found the link, here it is: http://chairgun.com/
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well, mr beeman wrote an article on energy needed to kill small game...a pigeon i think was 2-3 ft/lbs, squirrel was 4, crow was around 5-6...this is of course very dependant on your accuracy
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Welcome to the GTA Forums Jonathan,
I believe it more important to be accurate, than powerful. If you are unable to hit the animal in a good kill area, it doesn't matter how much power you have. If you hit a Squirrel in the butt, it wont matter how much power you have on the pellet.
I hope to see you here often, with posts and photos of your trophies !
Bill
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Welcome to the GTA forums Jonathan.If you'll go to the GTA Library and scroll down untill you come to Straight Shooters Library.Click on "Our Take". Choose from one of the mid-power catagory rifles they list that's in the 15 ft.lb class.Click on "Velocity tests, results".You'll see the energy and velocity tables listed as well as ballistic coefficient of the various pellets they test. If you can hit where your aimin' it looks like you'll be good out to 50 yds or so.For pest birds like starlings ,lethal range can be a lot farther as it doesn't take much energy to kill a small bird.For squirrels and anything for the pot, most 15 ft.lb. class guns are at their best inside of 40 yds. provided the shooter is up to the task.
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Just wanted to welcome you Jonathan,,,,,, nice to have you with us... Will be looking forward to your future posts, especially since it appears you'll be hunting with that shooter :)
Jeff
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go to straightshooters.com and click on "our take". they list rifles they have tested with various pellets up to 50 yards and give chrony results.
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Well, this is what I was hoping for. A very warm welcome indeed! Thanks to you all for the great info. It looks like I'll have plenty of homework to do. I'll upload some pics of my baby (45) when I get the time, as well as any game I take. I have an agreement with one of our local Golf Courses where I play, and they let me on in the evenings to help keep the pest bird population down, however, at one at a time, there's no shortage of targets.
Thanks again for your support!
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Nice having you on the GTA John, Big Bills response is right on line with my thinking. It's shot placement that counts the most. Realistically speaking, I wouldn't attemp a shot much over 35 to 40 yards with most AR's (but I have just sometimes for kicks!! LOL's). Of course there are some that can go much further distances. As for fpe's, that depends on the individuals taste I suppose. I've killed grackles and 'bushies' at 25 yards using a sub 500 un-tuned "beater". Head shots are considered ideal, but a good heart/lung shot just behind the arm will usually inflict adequate internal damage to lay a squirrel 'down to sleep'. Best Wishes, tjk
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Welcome to the GTA forum Johnathan!
Go to Straightshooters.com and check out the velocity/energy tests they did on the Diana 36 which is very similar in power to your 45. I get 900+fps with 7.9gr pellets on my Diana 36 as well.
Click on this link:
http://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/ottest36.html
I went by their test results and use only the pellets that achieve the highest energy retention at 25yds, ie: 8-10ft-lbs (FPE), and only those that have 6-7 or more fpe at 50yds. Heavy pellets are not recommended for medium-powered (low-entry Magnum) Springers like the Diana 34/36/45 etc. so try to use up to 8.4 or 8.8gr (like Beeman FTS) weight at the most, but you can't go wrong with the 7.9 Crosman Premiers and 8.3gr Superdomes or 8.4gr JSB's.
They should be very accurate in your gun and provide decent ballistics.
You must remember that even if you hit a squirrel or pigeon with a 9mm or 357 Mag. in the leg or behind, you 're not going to kill them. They will crawl and hide and probably disappear and die later, so shot placement is everything. You get best results with head shots. For humane kills you normally need 2.5-3fpe on impact for a pigeon, about 4fpe for squirrel and cottontail, 5-6fpe for crow and so on.
Learn how to shoot that 45 accurately at differnet ranges and you should be able to hunt most small-game within 40yds successfully with well placed (head) shots.
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Hunter skill,pellet selection and a good shooter for the job. There's a comfort zone for each airgun hunter and each one know's their limit's and skill with a shooter. When doubt arises step back, There's alway's another critter out there or this one may just move into range. :) Ed
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Shure is refreshing to see a new member asking such an important question!! Here,s my take on your question: At the power level your shooting at,, Ft. Lbs. are ample to get the job done, a simple rule of thumb for Ya,,,How "Far" can you keep all your shots hitting a Quarter?? A simple test that beats anything on "Statistics". Like all my other GTA Friends said,,,ACCURACY RULES!! Dont get me wrong,, I love all the "numbers",,, Im gonna sleep with my new replacement chrony tonight,,, Ya just cant beat "Real World" shooting Bud,,, Can Ya spare a dime?? LOL!! Looking forward to your posts here at Hunting Gate Johnathan,, we LOVE pics.!! Nice Thread Bud,,,, Tim.
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Thanks again for all the support. I've been shooting springers for 25 years now (since I was 6). It's been a family tradition. My Grandpa, my Dad, my Uncle, all of us have been shooting since about that age. My RWS 45 was my Dad's and maybe someday the Gamo Survival Rifle that I learned to shoot with, will be my Son's. Safety and Etiquette have always been of utmost importance to us. I'll say that Ive never seen a better shot than my dad, and I'd like to believe I'm almost as good. However, I'm the first to admit that he's forgotten more than i'll ever know about the sport. Hunting sounds like it will be a lot of fun, and quite a challenge.
More than anything, we ENJOY the sport. As long as it's done the right way, by people with the right frame of mind, it seems to be among the more nobel sports...at least that's my $.02 worth.