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General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Hunting Gate => : GoodOlRWS45 August 19, 2008, 11:33:20 AM
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I read somewhere (possibly here) that for Medium powered rifles such as mine, we shouldn't shoot Crow Magnums, due to excessive wear on our mainspring. Is this true? Does it apply to .177 and/or to .22? If that's the case, I guess the silver arrows (11.5 grns) are COMPLETELY out of the question.
Thanks
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Crow Magnums in .177 at 8.80gr or .20 at 12.80 gr are excellent pellets and perfect weight for springers. For some reason, the Crow Magnum in .22 is really REALLY heavy for the spec. My R7 .177 loves CrowMagnums to 25 yards in .177. My Sheridan Blue Streak .20 prefers them above all others i have tried. While the Blue Streak is a pneumatic, I know .20 R9 owners who use Crow Mags and like them.
I wondered this myself why the .22 Crow Magnum pellet is so dang heavy. 18.2!! grains is a really heavy .22 pellet. More than Twice the weight of the .177!?!? Avoid them if your .22 is a springer. Try Silver Bear 12.65gr or Bear Cubs 14.44gr instead. Lasers are a great choice as well at 13.36. From what I have have read, the Gamo Hunters in 15.3 gr .22 are close to perfect for springers... If your gun is hot then the Crosman Domed in the box at 14.3gr are a first choice as well.
I wish Beeman would produce the Crow Magnum in .22 at 14-16 grains.
Why on earth are they so heavy? 18.2 grains is a HUGE pellet...
What are most airguns that shoot .22? PCPs? There are fewer choices in .22 rounds and springer shooters need to be aware that Crow Mags in other calibres are more 'normal' than the .22s.
Hope this helps. I wish I had .22 Crow Mags suitable for my springers as well. Maybe .22 Crow Mag lights? Maybe China will make a lighter knockoff...
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Jonathan, you should be OK with a .177 CrowMag but like BumbleShot made clear it is on the heavy side in .22.cal. The real heavy hitters could handle it better though. Same is true for the 11.5 gr pellet in the .177 springers.Too much weight for most. I've shot 'em in a Gamo 1250 but they weren't as efficient or as accurate as the 10.5 gr. pellet in that gun.I honestly can't see an application for that pellet unless it would be in PCP.
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I whole heartedly agree with every post written on this thread. What is Beeman thinking making the .22 Cro's so damn heavy!?!?!?!?!?!? Too bad they don't listen to the consumer. I'd love to see them come out with a more sensible weighted Cro. I know my Diana would be even more lethal with them. Maybe Crosman will dummy-up and take my idea of the "black-bird" pellet,.....in .22 too!!! tjk
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Beeman simply made the .22 CM's for Magnum springers and PCP's because you need to shoot them with a certain velocity so that not only do they expand but penetrate relatively well at the same time. A true hollow point encounters a lot more resistance when it expands so it needs the velocity behind it to penetrate reasonably.
Have you thought or questioned why Crosman didn't make the hole any bigger on the Premier Hollow Points to resemble the CM? Because they are not true HP's. I 've recovered CP's and CPHP's and there is hardly any difference in the diameter although there was some slight difference, it was hardly noticeable. They were meant to be shot from guns with various power levels. Now recover a CM from any type of ballistic media or your backstop, and you 'll see a huge difference if shot from a Magnum gun. I shot a CM with my 8.2fpe 2240 pistol and when I recovered it, it looked nothing like when I had shot it from my 350 .22 with 23fpe ME. The CM from the 350 had expanded with a total diameter almost 50% greater compared to the weaker pistol that had managed to expand it 20%.
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So my questions still stands. Is there any reason not so shoot something like these heavier pellets in the magnum rated air rifles? Seems they are built with spring and frame heavy enough to handle then OK. I am still new to anything other than occasional shooting and don't want to screw up the Diana 48 by overstressing it. But, it seems that the heavier rifles designed to shoot faster would be beefed up enough that shooting the heavier pellets would be normal. Is this so?
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You can shoot the CM's in your 48 but it will shorten the life of your spring a little if you shoot a lot of them. If your 48 was tuned with a heavier top hat and/or spacers it would handle them fine. Springs are meant to be replaced every few thousand shots so it's no biggie. Have you tried the 15.9gr JSB Exact Jumbos? Those are perfect for 48/52/54.
I was shooting a lot of 21gr Kodiaks with my 350 and after 2,500 shots I noticed the gun wasn't shooting well, it sounded different and some vibration & recoil had returned after it was smoothed out around 1,200 shots and was shooting very well. My tuner said the spring was severely bent (bowed) for 2,500 shots. It looked like it had 5,000+ shots on it, so he 's tuning it so I can use it specifically with heavier pellets like the CM's and Kodiaks.
It wouldn't hurt if you shot some CM's here & there. Just avoid the heavier Kodiaks. The problem with the Dianas is also the factory spring guide, especially in the 350 & 460 which have longer springs. These Magnum guns need to be advanced (and properly) tuned to shoot a range of pellets and have the spring last longer.
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...who is your tuner?
Dave
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Curtis Wagers. Sorry he 's not tuning any more guns. He has 2 350's of his own which why I went with him but had to do a little begging so he would work on mine.
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ah...do you know anyone else doing work on the 350?
Dave
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I think CDT retired so you should check into Ed K. He works on a lot of Dianas but now he 's by referral only. I have not had any work done by him so I couldn't refer you although he should know me from the Diana Forum. It wouldn't hurt to send him an e-mail but be prepared to wait a while to get your gun back though. That's the main reason he went by referral only. Several people were complaining or giving him a bad rep that several months later they had not gotten their gun back.
If you want a quick turn-around (about 2-3wks), contact John Thomas at jmtfor1@aol.com. He tunes guns on the side and he does mainly Dianas. He is located in PA. I know a couple of people that sent their 350's to him (also 34's, 48's, etc.) and were happy when they got them back. Tell him Harry from Dianawerk sent you and that you want to have your gun tuned to shoot heavier pellets like CM's, etc. with custom metal guide & tophat. He will add more weight at the end of the spring to accomodate heavier pellets (this also adds some power) and of course he 'll hone, polish, debur, etc.
You should also really consider a Jim Maccari spring although JM doesn't make them too often anymore. It will make your 350 a lot more accurate and smoother. You should check the Special's page on Macarri's site every day - they go fast when he makes some. Also send Jim Maccari an e-mail and ask him when he will be making the Arctic spring again. You will lose at least 1ft-lb but it's worth it and don't forget to get a heavy duty seal from JM too although the Diana seals are pretty dang good according to JM himself. If you can't find the Acrtic spring, John will still make your 350 more accurate & pleasureable to shoot with the factory spring. He can also polish & tune your trigger which helps with accuracy and his prices are very reasonable. About 1/2 the price of what Paul Watts would charge for an advanced tune + trigger tune.
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ok...i already have jm parts in it(its the one joecuz sold that was cdt tuned), i'm just very interested in heavier pellets going through this already powerful gun.
Dave
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I must 100% back up Harrys recomendation,, "John in PA" is someone I trust completly. He did an AWSOME job on my 350 & 460. My 460 has a trigger even "J" can love!! His machinist Ray,, is second too none as well!! I give John my highest recomendation as a tuner,, well,, now that my Buddy Mr. Bob (CDT) has retired!! Tim.
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Hey Dave,, Im alittle confused,, are ya talkin bout shooting Crow Mags from your 48, or your 350?? I gotta side with Harry on not shooting too many Kodiaks thru guns with OEM top hats. I will however go out on a limb here,, I would not, & have not ever held back from shooting Crow Mags from a Diana 350. (177 or 22) Your gun will "tell" you if it likes them. (accuracy & firing cycle) Tim.
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i have a 350 in .22...well, my accuracy is best with ram jets, but not bad with crow mags...what do you use in your .22?(do you have a .22 350?)...i'm just curious what kind of power this gun can shoot out accurately once its tuned to handle it.
Dave
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Dave,, my 350/177. A well tuned one in 22 cal. is capable of taking Cyotes @ 50 yrds. PM me,, I may can put you in touch with someone that Harry & I know that does so pretty regular with his 350. Accuracy?? Well,, my Buddy has sent me many pics. of "sleeping" pidgons taken out to 40+ yrds. with Crow Mags!! Tim.
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tim, pm sent
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Dave,, PM sent back to Ya! Be shure to completly fill out the "Back Ground Check" section!LOL!! Oh Yeah,, dont miss the "Sence Of Humor Section"!! Tim.
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Dave, your one of the "Good Ones" Bud!! The name of the forum is: Diana Werks Collective. Maybe Harry or one of the others here can post a direct link?? Pretty shure Ive seen Marvin there?? (He is a "Puter Guy"!!LOL!!) About your Diana 350,,,, I remember now,, you got it from Joe Cuz,, (I wanted it LOL!!),, Its been tuned by CDT,, dont get better than that!! If,, however,, you want to pursue "Advanced" tuning to shoot "heavys" in it,, your gonna need to have it "balanced" out internally. Since Bob is retired now,, your choices are limited. I would suggest you,,,,,,,,, stand buy,,,,,,somthins in my garbage------gotta go!! Tim.
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Wow! I'm away for a couple of days and this thread has exploaded! Some awesome info here. Im interested in knowing what (if any specific) velocity the Crow Magnums are made to be most effective. Mainly I'm interested in .177, but I enjoy the discussion no matter what.
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haha, thanks tim...i also want to put a barrel weight on it...i like choppers look, but prefer long guns...i also really like the look of your 34 panther...thats a sharp look you have for it...i'll have to get one in .22 sometime to keep up with your collection...haha...thanks again for the help with the other forum!
Dave
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Hmmm... I'm gonna take Tim's word and take my tuned 350 out and put-in some Crow Mags and I'll tell you how they do. I haven't done it yet... just been using Meisterkugln's and JSB Predators.
...to be continued...
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Okay, so mine seems to think little of the Crow Mags... they fit so tightly into the breech that it seems a struggle to push em through. Hmmm... learn something new every day!