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PCP - HPA - C02 Gate => PCP DarkSiders Forum => : melloroadman October 27, 2008, 01:33:37 PM
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Can a stock Condor power be adjusted down with the power wheel and PSI fill dropped to shot a .177 10.5 at or around 1000 fps. If not what would have to be done to do so ? Also what type of shoot count could one expect ? Marvin
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Never owned one, shot one a bit though and they are powerhouses, but not known for their efficiency. You can get a standard Talon to shoot at or above 1000fps in .177, my TalonSS with 24" .22 barrel would launch 21gr. Kodiaks at or above 1000fps with a little tweaking. I toned it down to the mid 900's for best accuracy though. Personally I would think a Talon valved Airforce gun would be the more efficient rig, but if I was hunting where I would need a few really high power shots with Korean Heavies, then maybe I'd get a Condor....but at that point I'd buy a rimfire:)
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Dan by the time I buy a talon and then the 24 inch barrel I could have bought a condor . That is why I am asking this question . That way I could always power up and use 16.2 .177 or change to a .22 barrel and not worry about the distance that rim fire bullets travel . There is a method to my madness or at least there appears to be to me . I am trying to research my alternatives before I purchase . This is a lot of money to me and I usually keep things for ever .Marvin
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Marvin, The .22 Condor shoots more than 1250fps,the .177 is gonna be ridiculous....if the noise don't bother you,the Talon is what your looking for,if the noise bothers you than the SS is the way to go....the .177 Condor is like a blind person driving a car at 125 mph......
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Joe please take note in what I said . Also you might want to watch Paul Capellos video on P.a. site . He tested both the talon ss and the condor . The condor averaged 1132 with 15.8 grain .22 pellets and 1095 with 18.2 grain . The power level was set at 10 and the fill was 2700 psi . I would think that a EUN JIN .177 16.1 grain would fall some where in between those figures don't you . Marvin
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Marvin, I think you would be very happy with a regular Talon with 18" barrel. It would easily do 1000fps in .177, possibly with heavy pellets and give you greater air efficiency than the Condor. Condor needs to be a .22 or a .25 as it is almost purely a hunting gun. In .177 the air usage to ft/lbs ratio does not make sense IMO
Chris
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Marvin, I seen Pauls video,that's what pushed me to the SS,I also experienced all three AF rifles,I wouldn't give an opinion on something I haven't experienced,you contradict what you want,first you want something to shoot (.177)1000fps but don't like the idea of tweaking the gun but you want the Condor & want to make adjustments & change the barrel to give you a desired velocity.....just don't understand the logic when the Talon or SS will get you wat you want...........then you won't need to shoot 16gr pellets that weigh more than the avg. .22 pellet.......JMO.....Chris Preez gave you his opinion based on his experience & it was correct......
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Joe you are mistaken . I never said I wanted to change the barrel on the condor . What I said was I want the 24 inch barrel and by the time I buy the talon and the 24 inch barrel I could have bought a condor . There for can the condor be dialed down and the fill rate drooped to meet my needs . You have not answered any of my questions as of yet . All you have done is tell me what I need not knowing what my future intentions might be . I called Air Force my self today and they told me the 1450 figure was based on a 7 grain pellet and as I thought there should not be a problem with lowering the FPS with the power wheel and a 2700 fill rate . This information might be useful to you in the future . Now then if they have misinformed me would some one with the proper information speak up . Thank you Marvin
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I know what you said about changing The Talon to a 24",you would be better of buying the Condor "That way I could always power up and use 16.2 .177 or change to a .22 barrel" those were your words,,,,,I'm not trying to get you discouraged,I'm answering your questions & I have given you my opinions bsed on my experience with the the three AF Guns.....I will say it again,The SS or Talon is what you need..........BTW...you were mis-informed from AF......The .22 Condor is shooting numbers like they told you..........I will not get involved with this anymore,I wish you well & good luck with your decision.......God Bless you!
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Marvin, I am almost giving up on this thread.... ;)
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Yes, the Condor surely can be dialed down to shoot 600-700 fps if you would like
About the purchase price - yes, the talon and the 24" barrel is almost the price of a Condor BUT:
1. You can sell the 18" barrel and recupe 3/4 of the cost of the 24" barrel!!
2. The Talon with 24" barrel at full power IMO will still give you BETTER SHOT COUNT than dialed down Condor.
That's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.
hth
Chris
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All this talking about 18" barrels made me wanna get one!
Would you be able to get me a price on one in .22?
Thanks!
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Chris Preez.......Thank God for Your 2 cents....I thought I was going crazy!!!!!!!
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I never asked for which would give me the most shoot count . Iam glade the two of you are tiered of putting up with this old fool . Now may be some one will truly speak out that has a condor .Marvin
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Marvin, don't take it the wrong way. I have a lot of respect for you and your work on the Discovery. But it seems like we are trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.
Anyways, I am clearing the path for the Condor owners.
Best regards,
Chris
EDIT: Shot string from Talon with 24" barrel http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4841
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Marvin,no one looks at you like an old fool,except for yourself,I've been reading this thread over & over since last night & we gave you the answers....I have messed with all three of them & ended up with the SS......Obviously you have not experienced them & are seeking info,why do doubt or fight the info you recieve........go & buy the .177 Condor & when your not happy with it,I will tell you......I told you so!!!!!!!
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melloroadman - 10/27/2008 6:33 PM
Can a stock Condor power be adjusted down with the power wheel and PSI fill dropped to shot a .177 10.5 at or around 1000 fps. If not what would have to be done to do so ? Also what type of shoot count could one expect ? Marvin
You could adjust the tophat to get this to happen. Otherwise, the condor would shoot 10.5 gr. pellets at around 1100fps most of the time. You could dial the power all the way down and get it shooting in the 900fps range though.
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Thank you . You confirmed what AIR Force told me . Also P.A. said they have sold several of them with no complaints as of yet . Also Chris said it should not be a issue as well . In the long run I think it will meet my needs over the talon . And a lesson I learned in my many years of sales is every one has different needs and desires. And if I want the sale I need to meet them and keep my personal preference silent . Marvin
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Gentlemen, no need to get our panties in a wad...:) When I was looking at the FX Cyclones back three years ago when the price was much lower than today. "$850.00" , I drove the guys nuts on the Straightshooters web site. :) I never did get all my questions answered or did not hear what I wanted to hear..:) So I ended up calling two dealers who I asked the appropriate questions but it seemed that there terminology confused me so would ask them to spell things out for me..:) Being new to PCP's I did not want to spend almost a grand and end up with something I did not like. So I asked and asked the dealers and the guys on the forums and got allot of conflicting information. But then I found the review center and started to read more about the FX Cyclone compared to similar PCP's. Pros and Cons etc. I sure got an education on the FX Cyclones.. hehe. Then last spring I got the hot's for an Air Arms 410. Since the GTA now had a PCP Forum I asked the one guy that could give me exactly what I needed to know. David Kirby had been buying, the different models of Air Arms PCP's. He literarily answered every question I asked of him. I trusted David because he had been a member of the GTA and really inspired Bob and me to open the PCP Dark Sider's Forum..:) I can understand Marvins frustration but Marvin the GTA has many members now that are truly knowledgeable about different models of PCP's. Not only is Joe Cuz one but DaveD is another good person for information. The GTA does have a wealth of knowledgeable members aboard. I am sorry that you never got the answer you were looking for but Preez, Joe Cuz and DanoTX did try and help you with what information and experience they had. I am sure they were frustrated that you did not understand what they were saying also..:) Just as you with them. I hope you find the right answers to your question Marvin. I am an old fart as well..:) hehe Gene
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just out of curiosity, why would you rather have the condor over the ss? i've never even shot a pcp, but it does seem like the ss would be more appropriate...not trying to say you made a bad choice...if i were you, i would go condor too...lol, i just like to power you can get out of it, and the guys at talon tunes really have me interested in their .25 condor, and their method of quieting the af guns...
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I have a Condor that I recently purchased used, and I thought I would share my experience. The Condor that I have looks to be stock with no modifications. It is .22 caliber. I use Beeman Kodiaks in it. I started shooting it with a 2800 psi fill with the power wheel on 6. It kept picking up speed until it got to about 2500 psi. It leveled out to about 1250fps at that point. Too much speed for my needs, so I dropped the power wheel to 0 and kept on shooting it till it dropped to 950fps.Checked the pressure and it was about 1500psi. I can get about 20 good shots with a1500psi fill. Pretty darn accurate too. I may try a couple of other things to tame this beast. I may remove the hammer weight and try a shorter barrel. I sure do get a lot of fills from my tank at 1500psi though. I also filled it with my hand pump to make sure the gauge on my tank was correct and it reads 1500psi too.
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To answer your question I believe it is safer , easier , and cheaper to reduce power than to gain power . We now have Beeman , and Eun Jin making .177 pellets in 15.1 and 16.1 I believe are the grains. I want to shoot accurately out to 80 plus yards and be able to tune down to use inexpensive cph 10.5 for 25 to 50 yards . The 24 inch barrel will give me 1 1/2 turns instead of 1 turn or twist at a twist rate of 1 in 16 . That should help stabilize the pellet . The .177 pellet has less farcical drag by .043 that should allow it to maintain its speed and energy better at the longer range . The .177 pellet is longer than the .22 pellet in the same weigh which should help the pellet from wobbling in flight . I believe thing have changed in our sport as of late . We now have PCPs that can generate a lot of power and we are starting to get new ammo that will go along with this power . In the past from 60 yards and past .22 has dominated but I think that has or is changing . Also I have a career 201'S that I shoot 358 158 grain semi wad cutter at just under 700 fps with about 163 fpe so if its raw power and hunting I already have that covered . Also if I chose to make this my hunter I have the option of changing the barrel and moving on as well . Hope this method of madness makes since to someone other than me .Marvin
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beeman has a heavy pellet?!?!?!? what is it, and where do i go for it????
i'd love to see the results of your gun if you end up going with the condor...i'm interested to see if it will work out like you want it to(and hope it does).
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i would double check on those beeman pellets...the tin in the pic says .22...might be a typo
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I will do a wright up when I get it and I hope it works as well. Here's the pellets P.A. has both of them . Marvin
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/show_necessities.pl?show=NEW&Caliber=0.177&Type=0
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I have spoken to Air Force several times now before I make my purchase and they have been ever helpful . I have been reassured that the Condor in stock form will be able to be adjusted with the power wheel to keep a 10.5 .177 pellet between 900 - 1000 FPS. They know I under stand that it will not be as efficient as a talon but since I may in the future convert this to a .25 caliber they understand why I want the condor over the talon . They also told me to get the condor to be as efficient as the talon all I have to do is use a talon air tank instead of the condor tank . Also they have a micro tank that will give the condor in .177 between 200 -300 shoots per fill at about 700 -800 fps . I thought I would pass this information on to the GTA forum member in the event some one else is thinking of a condor purchase .Marvin
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Marvin, if you have decided on the Condor, Impact Airguns has a liquidaiion sale and there's one Condor in .22 left for $499. Compared to $577 from Pyramyd.
I suspect it will be gone very soon.
Lots of luck
Chris
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gotta love all of the options that there are with the af guns! i'm really interested to see what kinda numbers you're going to get when you convert to .25 though...i absolutely LOVE that caliber!
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Chris I saw that but my mind is made up on a .177 . I have to try my theory out about the distance shooting you know . If it was a .177 I would have bought it at 5;45 when I check his add. That is one reason I posted this as well is if some one is setting on the fence for a .22 that is a very good deal . A.F. modular approach is very good . I just have to get use to the tactical look but I think I will in a short order once I have it in my hands for a while . Marvin
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what scope are you going to pick for the condor?
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Dave I am going with their fiber optic sights at fist although their global ones have caught my eye as well . Put I have several BSA 3 X 12 AO air gun scopes and a BSA contender not being used as well . During the summer I have to much poi shift in the climate I live in to depend on a scope . Although with the condor I think I might have a shaded area that I can shoot under at 65 yards that I might be able to trust a scope . If I can settle down I have a shaded area at 100 yards that I can use a scope under as well .Marvin
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hmmm...how do you like the bsa's?
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I have no experience with them although Stephanie has several I believe . You might ask her but I believe she speaks highly of them . Marvin
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i believe she does too...and i know gene loves em...hmmm....maybe its time for me to get a bsa...
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were is this 15 gr pellet in 177 the world needs to know! Hay Marvin have you looked at MAC1 site about the condor I do understand what your trying to accomplish Ive been on the fence for over a year about the stock talon vers condor gave up and got the disco 22 for hunting now Im right back to were I was wanting a long range 177 cal so let me know how it works out I dont have the money to waste and like you I keep my things forever so best of luck in getting what your looking for.btw I will more than likely get the talon ss and the 24" barrel later on maybe in 20 cal. just for fun.
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Garry P.A. had a miss print sorry . Yes I spoke to Tim and I have a good understanding about what he is doing and I also spoke with Air hog . If I was not going to make this a dual purpose rifle I might have gone with one of them . Both of them tune for a one fill, one pellet , optimum count rifle . And if you change the settings the tune is out the window . It might work well for most people but as I said I plan on this being a multi task rifle . I still have the Ein Jin pellets that are top of the line so I am not concerned about it . Also pellet molds can be made as well .Marvin