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PCP - HPA - C02 Gate => PCP DarkSiders Forum => : PelletPaul December 28, 2008, 06:15:13 AM

: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul December 28, 2008, 06:15:13 AM
I have thinking of going to the Darkside.  I have springers that I love, however I want to be able to shoot 75/100 yards accurately.  I have looked at many PCP's over the last few months and can't decide which one would be best for me.  I don't want to spend half my 401k to get one.  Probably in the area of 500 to 800 dollars.  Now I know that this is the initial cost and when you add accessories probably another 200 to 300 more.  What would the suggestion be for a PCP in my price range?  I really don't like having to get air tanks, compressors, adaptors, pumps etc. but if this is what it takes then so be it.

Thanks in advance,

Paul
: Re: Darkside Advise
: DanoInTx December 28, 2008, 07:27:12 AM
After owning quite a few PCP's, if I had to do it all over again I would have saved my money and bought an Air Arms S400 or S410 right off the bat!  New they may be just out of your price range, but it would be worth putting a few more dollars together over time and just getting the right gun the first time, also could find one used for inside your price range.  The Air Arms line in my opinion is the best bang for the buck in PCP's.  I've owned guns from Airforce, Career, Sumatra, FX, and BAM and the Air Arms guns are hands down the best value than any of the aforementioned,....although the FX line is also really nice too...ChaChing!!

Just my $0.02
: RE: Darkside Advise
: hunter220 December 28, 2008, 07:31:56 AM
PelletPaul - 12/28/2008  11:15 AM

I have thinking of going to the Darkside.  I have springers that I love, however I want to be able to shoot 75/100 yards accurately.  I have looked at many PCP's over the last few months and can't decide which one would be best for me.  I don't want to spend half my 401k to get one.  Probably in the area of 500 to 800 dollars.  Now I know that this is the initial cost and when you add accessories probably another 200 to 300 more.  What would the suggestion be for a PCP in my price range?  I really don't like having to get air tanks, compressors, adaptors, pumps etc. but if this is what it takes then so be it.

Thanks in advance,

Paul


What do you want to use the gun for?  Hunting, plinking, etc.?  If you want a basic hunting rifle, the AF Condor with shroud is your best option.  Very quiet, ample power, extremely accurate.  However, if you want a more traditional looking gun or target shooting, you might want to check out the Air Arms guns, they are very nice.
: RE: Darkside Advise
: johnnyi December 28, 2008, 09:47:40 AM
I going through the same process myself.  I'm looking at the following:

BSA LoneStar.  either 22 or 25 cal.  $595 seems like a great gun for the money...  I dont see anything that has the power or build reputation as the Lonestar in that price range...?  Maybe a BAM50 that has been all reworked with barrel shroud and completely gone through could be a better option?  I believe they are $640 complete.  There just is not anything around me to go and see anything.  It is all read and reread to see what others opinions are....  Difficult to go by opinions as most feel extremely strongly with their purchases.  So I had been trying to find data where the reviewers have experience with a few different models.  

The Airforce models are also in the $500-600ish range, but I prefer the wood stock for myself...

Personally I'm like you wanting something with the best accuracy and build quality, well in that price range that is...  Myself looking for something quiet, powerful and accurate.

The next level up seems to be the BSA Super 10's, AirArms S410, and maybe the Daystate Huntsman.  BSA and AirArms are both in the 1k range.  Daystate is $1300 ish.
: RE: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul December 28, 2008, 11:31:59 AM
Thanks for the information.
So if I did decide on something like a Daystate at $1395 by the time I was finished with everything needed to shoot we are probably looking at 18 or 19 hundred?  Or $595 Lonestar probably $1000?  Now is the Daystate going to be that much better in the long run?  This will be a hunter and I like traditional stocks.  Also in a springer (I have a Diana 54) you would need to get tuned?  Would you drop ship to someone like Gene to tune before receiving it or shoot a few thousands rounds first?

Seeking knowledge,

Paul
: RE: Darkside Advise
: melloroadman December 28, 2008, 11:42:30 AM
If you are looking for a hunting rifle with wood here are some more choices .Marvin
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/show.pl?cmd_rifles=show_guns_manufacturer&Manufacturer=Evanix
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/show.pl?cmd_rifles=show_guns_manufacturer&Manufacturer=Eun%20Jin
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/show.pl?cmd_rifles=show_guns_manufacturer&Manufacturer=ShinSung
: Re: Darkside Advise
: Gene_SC December 28, 2008, 12:19:29 PM
If you are gonna use it for hunting then by an FX Cyclone .22 with synthetic stock. You can carry it around all day long. It is truly the gun for a hunter. The Daystate would be a bit heavier and less forgivable in the woods and brush.
: RE: Darkside Advise
: daved December 28, 2008, 12:24:19 PM
I'm going to have to agree with Dano here.  Like him, I've owned several different PCP's, come to think of it, I've owned a couple of Dan's :-).  Air Force Talon SS was my first PCP, fun little guns but unless you live to tinker with your air guns, it wouldn't be my first choice.  Had a B50 (one of Dan's), which is a Chinese copy of the Daystate Huntsman.  Good rifle, but if you go that route, get it pre-tuned from Big Ed.  Dan did that the second time around with his second Chuntsman, worth noting that he recently sold it.  If your budget could handle a Daystate, I'd look hard at the FX line.  I think my Cyclone is just about a perfect rifle :-), look around for some of my posts on it.  My other PCP is an Air Arms, an older S400E.  That's the single shot, bolt action, fixed power model.  Great rifle, but I'm planning on keeping the Cyclone and selling the Air Arms.  All that said, the S410 would be an excellent choice, and they're frequently available used at good prices.  Being a repeater is a really nice feature, and they have outstanding triggers.  For long range, you'd probably be better off with a .22, the .177's just don't carry that well for long range.  Don't know anything about the BSA's, but Peakchick thinks highly of them, and I'd trust her opinions.  Good luck, and keep us posted on your decision.  Later.

Dave
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul December 28, 2008, 12:59:39 PM
WOW!  What a choice.  How much faith do you have in the reviews of these guns?
johnnyi what did you decide on?
: Re: Darkside Advise
: melloroadman December 28, 2008, 01:36:15 PM
Paul if you are talking about the reviews and articles on the P.A. site they are good . I do assume you read the articles that are on the rifles as well . The Korean rifles are very good and accurate as well . I really looked at them before I bought my Condor but the flexibility of the Condor got my money . I got over the looks real quick once I saw what it would do . But That's me not you and the Korean rifles did not take a big price increase this year like the British makes did . They are all good rifles it just depends on your personal taste and needs .Marvin
: Re: Darkside Advise
: johnnyi December 28, 2008, 02:08:55 PM
Hi Paul.

I'm as you still gathering data to try to make an informed decision.  $500-$1000 is wwwwaaaaay more than I have even thought I would even consider for an air rifle, but here I am :D   I have watched the videos on AoA as well as the reviews on Pyramid.  Even been watching some of the videos on Utube.  I just sold a springer and collected some gift cards.  So now reviewing the best options.  Watch those videos on AoA for the Daystate Huntsman and the BSA Lonestar.

My list of importance is:  Accuracy /trigger, Quiet, Power, and quality build.  I was about a week or so ago even when I got my springers tuned already thinking of these PCP guns for my desire to have super accuracy and power.  I know you can get pretty darn good with the springers that have been tuned.  I did keep my Turbo Tuned Beeman Webley Vulcan, Of course i will never get rid of that gun.  Long history and just love it for the challenge.

The BSA Lonestar seems like you are getting a lot for the money compared to the others, but again I can only see what I can find on here and the other websites as I have nothing available locally to put my hands on anything around here.  I sure wish I could feel the triggers on the Longstar, Huntsman and even those FX rifles that are being suggested here.  Those look like fine products.  But if I can get there with a Lonestar, tune the trigger and add a barrel shroud, that could be the favorite...??  Of coure I have heard good things about the Tuned BAM with all the customizations done to it.  

Good luck, keep in touch with your decision.  I'm not going to rush this one, I'm trying to collect all the info that I can.  ;)
: Re: Darkside Advise
: spark22 December 28, 2008, 02:10:29 PM
I have a disco in 22 cal it's a great gun and will shot out to a 100yrds accurately but I'm looking for better like the styer 110hp, but I think my next pcp will be a bsa ultra  or supperten mk3 with a bullbarrel for plinking in the back yard.Then maybe the bsa lonestar for hunting some of the local yotes but  I realy need somthing quite for inercity hunting like a condor with a full shroud.There are so many choices it makes me nuts!
: RE: Darkside Advise
: hunter220 December 28, 2008, 02:47:22 PM
If your looking for a quiet rifle, the AF Condor with shroud is your best choice.  I have shot the Air Arms gun and my AF condor with shroud is quite a bit quieter on full power, let alone when the power is dialed down.  Seriously, you can't hear the gun from more the 50 feet away.  A condor tuned by Anthony from talontunes.com will be just as good as the Air arms and will be about the same price, while having about twice the power.  Just something to think about.
: Go for the Lonestar
: MikeX2 December 28, 2008, 05:18:45 PM
I recently bought the Lonestar. Really nice gun right out of the box. No need to play with the trigger at all. Its a little loud, but the power is all you want for hunting small game. It sends Gamo match pellets (14.2gr) 960-980fps (30+fpe) consistently (a few +1000fps now and then). Any more power than that and you'll be tearing right through game without letting the pellet expand and break up. As far as accuracy goes, its just as good as my Disco, consisent 1/2" groups @ 35yrds. Again, more than adequate for any small game hunting. Ok, now the bad news...if you don't want to go for the scuba tank and accessories you'll need a hand pump. This will also run you in the neighborhood of $200. I suggest the tank and accessories because after 150 or so pumps (which is what you need to get it up to 232bar) you'll be ready for a nap. The tank and accessories won't cost too much more than the hand pump. Go for it. For about $850.00 it will be the last gun you buy for quite some time.

Have anymore questions message me...

Have fun with whatever you decide on!!

Mikex2

: Re: Darkside Advise
: DanoInTx December 28, 2008, 07:43:34 PM
I had two BAM50/51, they can be tuned to shoot real well and the triggers aren't half bad.  The B50 has a nearly impossible stock, it just isn't designed to fit a human in my opinion.  I'm 6' tall and cut a full inch off the stock on my B50 and it was still too bulky.  The B51 stock was much better, actually it was great, but if you plan on carrying it in the field you'd better be strong, they are a big gun.  With a good tune they can crank out plenty of power in .22 for small game, but they are not powerhouses, wouldn't be my first pick for a hunter.  If you go this route talk to Big Ed and get one tuned, it will save you ALOT of heartache, trust me on this.  Many of them leak right out of the box and most need a barrel recrown before you see any great accuracy, Big Ed takes all of the risk out of buying a new gun and his tune price is VERY reasonable.  I think I paid around $400 for a full tuned B51 shipped, then got a shroud from Mountain Air and was a really happy camper...until I needed to sell so I could buy something else...doh!

The Korean guns are real powerhouses and you get ALOT of gun for what you pay, the downside is that if you get the long gun versions they are really long and pretty heavy too, btw they are also really loud at hunting power and tough to shroud.  I had a Sumatra Carbine and it was pretty handy and plenty powerfull, and it's a repeater which is nice for quick followup shots.  The Korean guns also have huge air resevoirs and eat air, you aren't going to want to pump them for long, a SCUBA setup would make more sense in for those guns.  I didn't care for the triggers on either of my Korean guns, the Sumatra and Career both had triggers designed by lawyers in my opinion, need a strong trigger finger.  

DaveD is right about the FX line, I owned a Black Widow that was a really nice gun and have shot Dave's Cyclone.  The Cyclone is a sweet gun and there isn't much to not like except maybe the price and the synthetic stock.  The build quality on the FX guns is top notch.  I think Gene really likes his Cyclone as well:)

Never owned a Daystate, want one real bad though, but Gene is right, they are really pretty to be carrying through the brush....don't think they make the Huntsman anymore btw, but I see them on the classifieds over on the Yellow every so often.  

Had an Airforce TalonSS and for power they are pretty tough to beat except by the Korean guns.  The triggers are mushy, but with some work can be made "ok".  The real setback with those guns (Talon, SS, Condor alike) is the tank/stock.  Using the bottle as the stock equates to a really high comb which tends to make your neck bend like a giraffe to shoot it (thing gave me a heck of a headache).  I loved to tinker with my SS, but at some point I just wanted to shoot and decided to sell it so I could shoot more and tinker less.  They shoot ok out of the box, but really need a bit of work to reach their full potential.  They are US made though, right here in Fort Worth TX actually:)  

Never shot a Disco, but doesn't look like a bad deal for someone just wanting to put one foot in the water with PCP's.  

I already expressed my feelings towards the Air Arms guns above, I think they are a great bang for your buck.  I've seen used guns from $500 for a single shot S400 upto $650 for a multishot S410, if you buy new they are quite a bit more expensive, and the newer side lever actions will run more even used.  I paid $500 shipped for my S400 carbine 12fpe gun, but I see FAC guns going for the same price if you watch the classifieds long enough.  I also have an Air Arms S200 which I really like, but it is also a 12fpe gun and doesn't have much power for hunting more than real small game.  

I know little or nothing about the BSA PCP guns except that I shot a Super10 once which seemed like a nice gun, although they all seem to have really high fill pressures...., but I don't know if a lower fill upsets their performance at all.  Most people that own them really like them, I had a BSA Superstar and the build quality of that gun was top notch, so I would suppose the build would carry on with their PCP's.

Lots of stuff to think about, and honestly there is no "perfect gun", there's just guns that are good for one thing or another.  We could all go around and around saying which gun is the best, but really the best gun is the one you want the most at the time:)
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul December 29, 2008, 12:55:58 AM
So one more question for now.  Is the $600 more for a Daystate worth it over lets say a condor?  
I really appreciate everyone's input on this.  I can read much passiion when the subject of PCP's comes into play.  GTA what a great place to be!!!!!!!!

Paul
: Re: Darkside Advise
: daved December 29, 2008, 02:01:18 AM
Can't speak from personal experience, but if it's on a par with my FX Cyclone (they're supposed to be even better), then I'd say absolutely.  Not to take anything away from the Condor, but there's really no comparison.  Fit, finish, build quality, trigger, consistency, efficiency, ergonomics, the Daystate would win hands down.  The only area the Condor wins would be power, and at up to 40 fpe for the Daystate, I'd say it packs enough punch to take anything that should be taken with an air rifle.  And out of the box, the Daystate will be much quieter.  To get the Condor as neighbor friendly, expect to drop another $200+.  And to get the Condor dialed in, you'll also need a chrony, add another $100 if you don't already have one.  Plus a chunk of patience and a large supply of pellets.  The Condor is also single shot only, the Daystate comes with a very good magazine plus a single shot adapter.  Best of all worlds.  Hmm, I think I need to start saving for my next rifle... ;-).  Later.

Dave
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul December 29, 2008, 03:55:08 AM
On one  of the reviews it states very clearly that the condor is very loud. Not good for me at all.  Quite is good for me.  I guess that leaves the Condor out.  I'll start looking at reviews for other PCP's.     Thanks
: Re: Darkside Advise
: DanoInTx December 29, 2008, 04:22:39 AM
PelletPaul - 12/29/2008  10:55 AM

On one  of the reviews it states very clearly that the condor is very loud. Not good for me at all.  Quite is good for me.  I guess that leaves the Condor out.  I'll start looking at reviews for other PCP's.     Thanks


The Condor can be shrouded which would make it much quieter.  The problem I see with shrouding them and modding and putting lipstick on them is that by the time you pay for a shroud, mods, lipstick, and get the gun tuned you could have bought a better rifle to begin with, and the ergonomics of a Condor will never be right unless your head is the size of a peanut and your neck bends like a giraffe.  Sorry Airforce guys, I know people really love these guns, but they do have some serious shortcomings....I loved my TalonSS, but finally sold it because of those shortcomings.  It's kinda like the $70 QB78 CO2 gun, I've poured a bunch of money into one of those guns to make them custom.  When I was done I had a pretty nice little custom gun, but for the money I put into making that $70 gun really nice I could have just bought a really nice gun to begin with, it's like putting nice rims on a Pinto.  These are just my personal opinions, I'm not sponsored by "The Anti Airforce Gun League", they are tons of fun to tinker with.

Haha, I agree, airgun guys are pretty passionate about whatever gun they're shooting....I like shooting my sons Red Ryder on occasion and I don't care who sees me when I'm shooting it!

Take care,
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PeakChick December 29, 2008, 05:02:30 AM
Might want to check out Airguns of AZ Used site:

BSA Lone Star
.22 Caliber
No Sights
EX Condition
$495.00

Speak to them about options for making it more "neighborhood friendly", or consider the after market options to do that.
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul December 29, 2008, 06:13:49 AM
PeakChick -  What about that Daystate Huntsman for 795.00 on AOA.  Much better than Lonestar?  Let's remember I want to shoot accurately at 75 to 100 yards.  I have a Diana 54 which is excellent for 50 yards and under.  And it must be quite.

Paul
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PeakChick December 29, 2008, 06:45:14 AM
I think the Daystate is a bit overpriced. The Huntsman is a fine, old rifle, but nothing special. The newer Daystates are great rifles, the electronic trigger models can have elec. issues that can be a pain to deal with. The Air Wolf is a great hunting rifle, but awfully pricey. I'm pretty sold on what a good vaule the BSA PCP rifles are for the buck. Yes, the LoneStar is loud stock. Once again, speak with AoA about options to make it more friendly for the backyard. I beleive the LoneStar, without sights, barrel has 1/2 UNF standard threads on the end for "accessories." Give AoA a call.
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul December 29, 2008, 06:50:31 AM
Thanks PeakChick.      Paul
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PeakChick December 29, 2008, 08:29:05 AM
One caveat I'm going to throw in here Paul. You mention wanting 75-100 yard accuracy. I consider 75-100 yards to be pretty much outside the realistic expectations I have for air rifles. It's more a function of the limited balistics of diablo pellets than anything else. Yes, there are folks that speak of the shots they take at long range, and I'm sure they are making their shots. I'm a fair shot and would not even consider taking a 75 + yard shot at anything with any air rifle. I consider air rifles to be 50 yard hunting tools, at best. Most of the pest elimination I do is at 20 - 40 yard ranges, (I'm pretty impressed with an air rifle and myself when I can knock a Starling out of a tree at 40 yards). Maybe I'm just not good enough to get the job done at longer ranges, but I don't even try with an air rifle.
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul December 29, 2008, 09:28:10 AM
I know it's a long way, however with today's pellet gun choices and the awesome power of some models, do you not think this to be viable option.  I shoot very accurately at 50 yards and lower with my Diana 54.  I get just over 20 ft/lbs at this range.  Now when you take a PCP with twice and sometimes three times more ft/lbs, higher velocities with heavier pellets, no felt recoil and not hold sensitive that 75 to 100 yards is not possible?  I can assure you that you know much, much more than I so I value your opinion.  With heavier pellets and more velocity would not your pellet stabilize enough down range to shoot these kind of distances accurately?

Moving toward the dark side,

Paul
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PeakChick December 29, 2008, 09:34:03 AM
In my opinion Paul, for what it's worth, it's really just more a question of how much a pellet is going to be affected by wind at increased range and the lower retained energy from a 14-18 gr. pellet that started out at about 900 fps. There are folks that work hard at shooting air rifles at longer ranges, particulary high energy PCP rifles. For shooting at targets or plinking away at cans, great, but I'm of the opinion that air rifles, including high energy PCP rifles really don't retain enough energy beyond 50 yards or so to be effective, humane hunting tools.

I'm sure some will chime in with dissenting opinions...............  :)
: Re: Darkside Advise
: DanoInTx December 29, 2008, 10:27:02 AM
For what it's worth, and I am no hunter so my take doesn't neccesarily mean much, I've shot at, and hit soda cans filled with water at 158 yards with a 30fpe pcp and had no problem putting a hole through it and draining the water(what me and Steve Corcoran call the "158 yard challenge").  I know that isn't a realistic hunting situation, but I swear it can be done, and be done repeatably given the correct wind conditions.  I've seen many people at our last NTAGM shootout hit a 3" gong at 100+ yards without trying very hard with PCP's.  Would I shoot a squirrel at that distance and hope for a humane kill?  If I hit it I know it would drop, but realistically I probably wouldn't take a shot much past 70 yards for fear of not making a clean shot and maiming the poor bugger.  Really depends on the gun, the shooter, and confidence in ones skills and equipment...I'm not a great shot, and in a more realistic hunting situation where there is no bench or rest involved these results would be worse.  Just my non-hunting $0.02 based on what I've seen done from a bench.
: Re: Darkside Advise
: hunter220 December 29, 2008, 02:20:58 PM
PelletPaul - 12/29/2008  8:55 AM

On one  of the reviews it states very clearly that the condor is very loud. Not good for me at all.  Quite is good for me.  I guess that leaves the Condor out.  I'll start looking at reviews for other PCP's.     Thanks


If you get a talontuned condor, for about $800-900, you can have a shroud which makes it super quiet, and he will tune it for you, from the trigger to the consistency.  In my experience, a talontuned condor is as good as any other air rifle out there when it comes to accuracy, power, etc.  At 100 yards I have gotten under 2 inch groups.  I have taken squirrels out to 65 yards, with one shot.  I wouldn't cut the condor out yet, because WITH THE SHROUD IT IS THE MOST QUIET AIR RIFLE I HAVE SHOT.
: RE: Darkside Advise
: hunter220 December 29, 2008, 02:24:32 PM
Paul, you want long range accuracy?  I have 2 friends that have taken, cleanly with 1 shot, rabbits out to 130 yards with their condor.  I have personally SEEN a CROW taken out at 104 yards confirmed with a AF Condor.  If you want long range accuracy it definately is one of your best options.  It will also have the most power at that range so will give you a better chance of a clean kill.  I know I have shot 1.75 inch groups at 100 yards before.
: Get a Monkey gun
: kiwi December 29, 2008, 05:52:37 PM
Evanix AR6 Is the way to go  for hunting,
brut power,Good to 100m
But if you need quiet look at
something ealse. The barrel is threaded
if you are able to make use of it "wink"
They were designed for pest control "Monkeys"
for the Korean Govement.
It was designed to kill from the first line
on the drawing board
not just a air toy that has the abillity to kill.

A gun people over look
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul December 30, 2008, 12:42:23 AM
I see alot of Condor's in our hunting gate section and the power and accuracy is awesome. I see that nutters and racoons don't stand a chance when there is a Condor around.  I wish they weren't so ugly.  I'am sure that  most, their beautiful guns and I guess it would grow on me.  For me a nice walnut stock brings out the beauty in  weapons of these calibers.  I guess I'am just old fashion.
Kiwi - No one has said much on the Evanix AR6.  I did notice that in a review it said to be very loud.  But the shear power ratings were out of this world.  Does anyone have a Daystate huntsman?  I sure like the looks.
: Re: Darkside Advise
: hunter220 December 30, 2008, 01:55:39 AM
PelletPaul - 12/30/2008  5:42 AM

I see alot of Condor's in our hunting gate section and the power and accuracy is awesome. I see that nutters and racoons don't stand a chance when there is a Condor around.  I wish they weren't so ugly.  I'am sure that  most, their beautiful guns and I guess it would grow on me.  For me a nice walnut stock brings out the beauty in  weapons of these calibers.  I guess I'am just old fashion.
Kiwi - No one has said much on the Evanix AR6.  I did notice that in a review it said to be very loud.  But the shear power ratings were out of this world.  Does anyone have a Daystate huntsman?  I sure like the looks.


Yeah, to each his own.  I wanted the tactical look of the condor, that was another thing I liked.  It is very easy to modify and tinker with to make it even better too.  Like I said, if you want a more traditional air rifle the Air Arms might be for you.
: RE: Darkside Advise
: johnnyi December 30, 2008, 10:26:54 AM
Paul,

Just FYI AOA has some deals on a few different BSA models.  Scorpion 10 and Super 10 are both on sale for $895.  Both are 30 FPE.  They Also have a sale on the Beech Cyclone for $1195.  Cyclone has selective 3 power levels.   But that is again way more than what I was considering.  So currently the Super 10 is looking pretty good for me...  Still looking.  I was hoping to find a nice experienced one on the forums.  No luck yet...
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul December 30, 2008, 01:29:47 PM
johnnyi
I have a safe full of powder burners I don't use anymore.  I' am an archer and don't need them anymore.  So I can spent probably a little extra.  The initial price is probably just half of what you need.  Thing about PCP's is that there are alot of accessories to buy just to shoot it.  I still have to learn about all of that.  My Diana 54 after accessories and tune was well over $1000.  I see some PCP guys buying $2000 compressors just for air. But, I can't get away from the shear power these PCP's.  For a hunter like me, these are real efficient weapons.  

The search goes on
: Re: Darkside Advise
: johnnyi December 30, 2008, 01:44:32 PM
I hear you on that Paul.  I started shooting Archery in 1997 kept all of my powerburners until last year.  I finally got rid of almost all of my rifles, just was not doing anything with them.  Just sold my last high powered rifle a month or so ago.  I did keep a few .22's and some collectors.

About that post below about the  Evanix, seems like it would be good for the power.  Just not too sure about the Trigger and overall accuracy.  I need a clean break trigger and just not sure if that one will fit the bill.  But then you still have that extra couple hundred for a shroud.
: so many great rifles out there these days it's hard to pick isn't it!
: spark22 December 30, 2008, 04:53:06 PM
get a big scuba tank like a 88cf with a 3600psi fill for around $300 and start off with a mac-1 tuned discovery in 22cal I love mine to death and it wasn't tuned got it straight from the factory and it shoots between 850-835fps gets 40 good shots per fill and will take out any pest cleanly @ upto 75yrds.For a starter pcp for $230 they are a great deal!
: RE: Darkside Advise
: tat2dman December 30, 2008, 11:50:00 PM
Don`t see 2 many used s-10`s,never had one,never fired one,never saw one for sale used!Do own 2 BSA`s tho,I think they`re a good balance between power and accuracy.Have a regulated Hornet and a Tech Star,the Hornet`s a .22 and the Tech Star`s in .32.Thinkin abot a Tech in 9 mm!(lotsa penny`s for that)Don`t even own a chrony,but I`ve found with both if I can see it,I can hit it,within reason 0`course,I usually leave my scopes on only 4-6x.Robert from AOA has a used Lone Star for $495,not sure of cal. they came in .22 or .25.She`s probably cherry to,they`ve only been out 1-2 years.I see alot of posts about the "extras" needed,well there are a few!But........when I shot competitive archery 25 or so years ago,it usually involved a bow case + a 2.5` x 4` case for all the goodies,yeah theres some start up expense,but once ya get over that it`s paid for!Like every sport/hobbies it`s the bit`s that kill ya.For me it was a natural fit,I`ve been shooting something competitavely for almost 40 years(Dad was a career Marine)Then a few years ago I found myself havin a couple of heart attacks,losin my job,you all know the drill,anyway after all was said and done I found myself with enough money to live but that was about it,forget about the trips to the range,ammo,and don`t even think of a new rifle,priced a Rem. 40 x lately?Airguns were a natural for me because I can stay home and shoot!And shoot I do!!Reminds me gotta order some lead..............off the soap box now,going back to reading!
: This has been an interesting thread...
: daved December 31, 2008, 01:37:21 AM
Had you been asking about springers, I suspect there would have been about 5 suggestions, and a bunch of agreement with those 5.  Despite the fact that I've now owned 5 PCP's, it never really occurred to me how much variety and price differences there are in these rifles.  It's even more interesting to note that your projected rifle budget quickly doubled or more :-).  

One thing I've noticed no one has asked, what's your intended primary use?  I know you said long range, but is that just paper, or hunting?  Do you want/need the extra expense and complexity of a repeater, or will a single shot do the job?  Keep in mind, very few standard air rifle pellets will tolerate velocities in excess of 1000 fps, so having a rifle that can launch a pellet at 1500 may be good for your ego, but it probably isn't going to hit much.  If you're hunting, a well placed hit at 15 fpe is far more effective than a miss at 200.  

I started with springers, moved into PCP's, messed around with modding the Air Force rifles, went the all out power route, my cutomized Talon SS could easily match or exceed the power of a Condor.  Finally took a hard look at the kind of shooting I was doing and realized I didn't need super high power, high caliber rifles for my shooting.  .177 ended up being the answer for me, I shoot a lot but it's mostly at paper or other targets, and ranges up to 50 yards or so.  The occasional hunting I do can be handled quite nicely by a 20 fpe rifle, mostly birds but with the occasional squirrel or ground hog thrown in.  In hunting, it's (almost) all about shot placement, and knowing the limits of you and your rifle.

So my long winded advice is, decide what you want a new rifle to do, decide on a budget and stick to it, think about the stuff I mentioned above, then buy the best rifle you can for the money.  You can get a used AA 4XX for well within your initial budget, the older bolt action single shots are even more reasonable.  The higher end rifles may get you a few more bells and whistles, and there MAY be a hairs breadth difference in accuracy, but whether it's worth the extra cost only you can decide.  Hope that helps some, and looking forward to your final decision :-).  Later.

Dave
: RE: This has been an interesting thread...
: PelletPaul December 31, 2008, 02:13:02 AM
Dave,  Good scenario.  Hunting.  50-100yards, quiet, 30-40ft/lbs of power and extremely accurate.  Is there such a animal?  A traditional walnut stock.  Good looking.  I could get by with a single shot.  I'am retiring in 4 months and plan on traveling across this great country in a fifth wheel with springer and PCP by my side.  Costa Rica next year and Alaska the following year.  I have an outstanding springer now,but I need that 50-100 yard PCP.  I don't want the lowest price or the highest.  Somewhere between.  

The search continues......................
: RE: This has been an interesting thread...
: daved December 31, 2008, 05:36:32 AM
Forgot one thing, Paul, how big is the game you're intending to hunt?  Assuming typical air rifle game, up to ground hog or raccoon size, most of the guns mentioned would be capable in .22.  Sound level could be an issue, the quietest factory rifle I've heard about is the FX T-12 Whisper, in .22 it's rated at 28 fpe.  If my Cyclone is any indication, it'll do better.  Accuracy won't be an issue, and FX rifles have good to outstanding triggers.  Air Arms S4XX series would also be a good choice, although I don't think the carbine will make your power cut off.  Not as quiet as some, but when I got my S400E, I thought it was broken, it seemed that quiet compared to the Talon I also had at the time.  And the newer ones are supposed to be quieter.  Lots of other choices, these are just some of the ones I have personal experience with.

If you plan on going after bigger game, forget quiet.  The heavy hitters like the Dragon Slayer or the Evanix AR6 are all loud, and it's hard to do anything about it.  The triggers aren't nearly as good, either, and shot count runs from bad to SUCKS :-)!  But lots of guys swear by them, and although I can't see owning one, the Dragon Slayer is a hoot to shoot.  Course, I seem to remember saying something similar about PCP's awhile back...  Later.

Dave
: Re: Darkside Advise
: rbtmckny January 01, 2009, 07:46:45 AM
Dear Paul,
   Like you I have been looking at PCP guns for the past couple of months. The extra expense was putting me off. I own two 177 cal. spring rifles and I wanted something with more power, so last summer I bought a 22 cal. Walther Falcon Hunter. It has a lot of power, but is not a gun to have fun plinking with. It has a lot of recoil and the trigger is not the best. It's also very loud.
   I want a gun that looks good, has a good trigger, is accurate at least to 50 yards, is powerful and is QUIET. I usually shoot at distances of 30-40 yards. I want a gun that I can hunt with, shoot targets and just have fun shooting things. I need something quiet to shoot around my house. My neighbors have been cool so far, but I usually wait for when nobody seems to be around. Sometimes I want to shoot but don't because my springers are too loud.
   When I started looking at PCP's, I was dreaming about Air Force and Logun air guns. What troubled me about those guns was I did not really like the way the air tank was used as the butt of the rifle. I started looking at BSA guns. In the videos at AoA, some of them seemed to be very quiet, but I was not thrilled with the way they looked. Then I started dreaming about Daystate and FX air rifles. Those two companies make some real good looking guns. Expensive too! I spent a lot of time, going back and forth between the two companies and the different models. I read all I could find on the web. I just could not make up my mind. I did not want to spend a lot of money and then not be happy with what I got.
   I started looking at the BSA guns again. They seemed better looking than I had thought before. I liked the Super Ten Bull Barrel, but it is a regulated air gun and I have read regulators wear out in a few years. I also liked the Scorpion T-10 Bull Barrel, it's unregulated with a knew improved valve. Less to go wrong. I don't want to hassle with having to send a gun somewhere to be fixed. Then AoA had a holiday sale and that sealed it. I took the plunge and ordered a BSA Scorpion T-10 Bull Barrel 22 cal., a yoke and hose and a tin of JSB Jumbo Express pellets from AoA. I also ordered a 100cf scuba tank and a BSA 6x24 40mm scope. The gun will come Friday( I can't wait), the scope will come Monday, the scuba tank will come Tuesday. I decided on a scuba tank because I am not big and only weigh between 145 and 150 lbs. I don't think I am big enough to work a pump. Plus having to pump the gun up every 40 shots seems like a lot of work. 40 shots can go by pretty quick!
   I probably did not help you out any with your decision, but this is what influenced mine.
: Re: Darkside Advise
: hunter220 January 01, 2009, 09:07:16 AM
Paul, for hunting at 30+ yards and 30-40fpe, the Air Arms will probably fit your bill.  They have the wood stock your looking for and are very nice guns.  As far as being quiet, I haven't found a gun that is as quiet as the condor but you have already ruled that one out, so go with one of the air arms rifles.

EDIT:  here is a neat video I found displaying the accuracy of the condor.  http://s380.photobucket.com/albums/oo243/vellaboy/?action=view¤t=DSC_0001.flv
: BTW, Paul...
: daved January 01, 2009, 04:46:10 PM
If you're retirement travels bring you through Washington state, you're welcome to park your RV next to my shop, hang out and do some shooting, maybe tip a couple of beers if you're so inclined :-).  Open invitation, drop me a line.  Later.

Dave
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul January 01, 2009, 11:03:01 PM
Sure enough Dave.  Thanks for the invitation.
I'am leaning toward Daystate right now, but may change tomorrow.  Daystate have PCPs with up to 80ft/lbs.  I've watch some videos on AOA, extremely powerful, extremely quiet, extremely accurate and of course extremely expensive.  I believe they are the best of the best.

Paul
: Re: Darkside Advise
: Sc(+)pe January 03, 2009, 03:05:23 PM
I have not seen it yet but maybe want to throw the rapid into your spectrum, because the daystate's are not all that much cheaper than a rapid, and i have heard nothing but praise of a fantastic rifle from rapid owners.
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul January 03, 2009, 10:06:47 PM
Sc(+)pe,

I'll give it a try.  Never heard of them.  I'll google it.           Thanks,        Paul
: Re: Darkside Advise
: tat2dman January 03, 2009, 11:36:21 PM
E-Type Rapid......
: Re: Darkside Advise
: PelletPaul January 04, 2009, 12:10:02 AM
tat2dman

How do you like it?  What ft/lbs does this gun develop?  Give me your take.      Thanks,       Paul
: Re: Darkside Advise
: MEHavey January 04, 2009, 12:36:34 PM
>
> ...my Diana 54. I get just over 20 ft/lbs at this range. Now when you take a PCP with twice and sometimes
>  three times more ft/lbs....
>

With .22 pellets weighing anything "nominal"..... 40 FPE has put you supersonic with Superdomes, and 60 FPE has done the same for Kodiaks.

Neither Pellets nor badminton shuttlecocks  like that very much......     :-)

.