GTA

Gateway To Product Reviews => Non-Productive Posts => : CharlieDaTuna March 15, 2009, 09:21:36 AM

: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: CharlieDaTuna March 15, 2009, 09:21:36 AM

As almost everyone knows on this forum, that for nearly three years, Steve Woodward, also known as Steve-in-NC and the YP forum owner, CT Steve, has deleted every post regarding the GRT-III trigger as well as any posts regarding the GTA forum, me or the CharlieDaTuna website. There were unconstrained accusations and countless numbers of people have been threatened to be banned, banned, flamed and maltreated for any mention of the above. There was no boundary or limits in what would be done to destroy Gene and the GTA forum as well as myself and the GRT-III trigger.

Every effort was made to prevent exposure, publicity or promotion of the GRT-III trigger as well as the GTA forum or the CDT website no matter what the cost on the YP’s.

Well the worm has now turned.

Of course we will not follow the policies that the YP administration has taken over there for the past almost three years with the exception of one thing. After all this time and abuse by both Steve’s regarding the GRT-III trigger, our forum and our membership, the shoe is now on the other foot.

From this point on, any post and/or any reference or response to Steve-in NC’s trigger will be immediately deleted.

Unlike what was done to us, Gene and I, as well as our members will make no derogatory remarks regarding him or a trigger. There will be no flaming or banning and no threats made. But… there will be no promoting of his products either. We will just delete the post and or responses.

Both Steve’s had their own personal agendas in their pursuits, especially Steve-in-NC. Some will accuse me of doing this in my own self interests. Well guess what… for the most part you are right. Any products and especially any trigger manufactured and/or marked by Steve-in-NC will not be promoted or permitted here and any reference to them will be deleted just as was done by them all those years without all of the other consequences.

Our forum will not support or promote Steve-in-NC

So be aware of the fact that if someone does post anything regarding his trigger, you can expect it will be deleted.

Also, I would expect that there will now be a change in attitude over there and perhaps a bit of relaxation in their policyies because it will fithis agenda.... and in the amount of time it took for them to change, almost three years, maybe we'll relax ours.

Gene and I have discussed this and believe those that have been a part of our forum over the past almost three years or have had the unfortunate experience of posting any of the aboveover there will surely understand.

NOTE: This Post will be left open for several days to allow those who woud like to voice their opinions, then be frozen with the probability of some of theresponses being deleted or moved to the non-productive section.The logic in some deletions in this post is it will remain in the top for a considerable time, and not be so longon the page.

NOTE: This was moved to the non-productive page rather than delete the responses. Wednesday, 3/18/09 2 pm

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: shadow March 15, 2009, 09:28:02 AM

I stand behind GTA and it's policies 100%. :) Ed

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: PelletPaul March 15, 2009, 09:38:58 AM

Personally I don't know anything about triggers or Steve in NC and don't care to know.  Like Ed, GTA is the place to be.  Paul

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: dave2288 March 15, 2009, 09:43:59 AM

i think thats fair...no reason why you should allow it imo...it IS a forum started by you and gene, so, you guys kinda say what goes.

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: RedFeather March 15, 2009, 10:28:33 AM

I don't think it matters that much as most of the members here know the score and don't talk about Steve in NC anyway.  A certain member here went crying over there last night and said he was banned for talking about another tuner.  I really felt like setting the record straight, but thought it would only get me banned there.  Do we really want to have people feel that way here?  Someone also talked about "bad blood" between the two forums and I know that it is really one sided.  This will only give them more fuel for their argument, but that's just MO.  

One other question.  As much as I'm getting tired of his self-promotion, Steve in NC's latest 392 mods aren't bad.  Does this mean we can't refer someone to a string about those?  (Myself, I favor Tim at Mac-1's Steroids.)

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: JOHNNY QUEST March 15, 2009, 11:03:35 AM

I have never registered to the yellow forum, and personally I don't give a rats arse about who's trigger is sound and the best... What I do care about is,,,, A group of people that can discuss Airgun knoledge and distribute it to the world. I am a menber of the GTA because I feel comfortable here and there are fine folks to help me become a better airgunner... The rest of the CRAPPPP is non existant in my world.

We as menbers af the Gta don't need any influx of the crappp that is going on between you and the other guy......

Charlie........... let it go man..... he is an Idiot ,,,,and we have won....

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: Iflyrc March 15, 2009, 11:23:41 AM

Since I found GTA I have NO reason to even search for another group. What ever keeps this forum going and the members happy is ok with me. The moderators have allways been fair, honest and open. Thanks guys.

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: joeblow March 15, 2009, 12:36:15 PM

jheeesh pretty heavy stuff. the allmighty dollar$$$ ... the ultimate force of gravity ... you think???

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: speedturtle March 15, 2009, 12:37:29 PM

I only have a faint idea about the background between this confusion but this is my 2 cents on the matter:

"Why hold on too much on an idea? I onced encountered a guy that is quite a marvel with computers. We became friends and later on when He saw my determination to learn about building and troubleshooting computer stuff He just willingly let me learn some tricks of the trade without any selfish thought that I could be a competitor someday. When I asked Him the reason why He was so nice to me to teach me his trade this is what He said to me: "When I share my knowledge with you I am also sharing my self. When I die it would be nice if people can benefit about what I have learned in life may it be about computers or how to be a human being. You don't get robbed when you share your knowledge to others, you become rich by gaining friends." Up to this day we are more than best of friends and I do the same with other people. I impart ideas if that would help others to become "better" without much thought of "what's in it for me".

In the study of Zen it is the same. A good teacher does not imprison their students with their thoughts. What they do is to just "guide" the students to see things clearly and let them "realize"whatever has to be realized depending on their present state of mind and openness. If any school or teacher tries to keep their students forever in their fold then they have failed to see the truth in everything. Why ask for followers wherein all can become leaders in their own right?

We have our own preferences in everything. On a personal level I saw the spirit of sharing and fun here at GTA that is why I preferred to stay here. Other forums are good, too. So why compare and ask for sympathy harboring negative attitudes? A more profound way or approach to look into the matter is that "are we helping others or are we just simple protecting our own meager interests?"

Again, this is just my 2 cents on the matter. In the end whoever harbors a lot of hurt and negative emotions will just be the one who failed to see the better part of it all.

Speedturtle

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: ronbeaux March 15, 2009, 12:41:45 PM

Amen.

We only get to live one time here. Not all of us will ever be remembered except for family members we had.

Enjoy it while you can.

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: brokenarrowjbe March 15, 2009, 01:34:58 PM

I think you are right Charlie. I have no problem with your decision. John

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: haertig March 15, 2009, 02:09:59 PM

This is your forum and you can certainly do what you want with it.  It's not my place to complain, nor would I ever consider it - I am a guest here.  But tit-for-tat retaliatory actions like this can lower my respect for those who take them. If forum rules are being violated or the poster is causing trouble on these forums, certainly - ban the person.  But banning all mention of them for a "Ha! Got 'ya back!" reason just seems childish.  FWIW, I have no idea who this Steve person is, what YP is, or what alternate triggers are available.  I simply enjoy these forums.

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: hawkeye March 15, 2009, 02:14:08 PM

Anybody got kids?  I do...  and this sounds a lot like some parenting gone bad! I mean if someone holds a patent, and it got stolen, then seek legal recourse...  otherwise, lets go shoot up some tin cans.  If party "a" did something so terribly wrong, and party "b" complains about it all the time, then party "b" is placed in a similar position, then DOES THE SAME THING that "a" did, is that not the pot calling the kettle black? or lowering yourself to the same level?   I just don't get it...  and some of you guys sound like robots...

Now everyone is grounded for a week, until these attitudes change!

This is a response to the entire thread, not one particular post...

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: Dave1899 March 15, 2009, 02:19:09 PM

Bob and Gene...It's your playground...You make the rules...'Nuff said (http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif)

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: Leadhead March 15, 2009, 02:55:06 PM

I've been lurking around here about 2 months........and I think it is THE best airgun forum going........so if Charlie or Gene take issue with something said on this, or any other forum..........I have to believe it's for good reason. I've never seen any heavyhandedness on this forum........period.....

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: 70GTvert March 16, 2009, 12:46:24 AM

This is wrong in SO many ways. I came here from the yellow because this was the OPEN forum, where we were all treated like reasonable intelligent adults, not like over at the yellow were there is censorship due to an inflated (or deflated) ego. Now it is here too. How childish. He did it, so I can do it too I've seen 4 year olds make more mature choices. Charlie, I was proud of your ability to stay neutral to post all sides, even when it did not always portray you in the best light. That attitude alone brought about a level of trust far beyond anything else you could have done. Now you go and follow in his footsteps.

Why don’t one or both of you get a patent attorney to come up with a finding on this once and for all? Get or loose bragging rights, but do it all while keeping an OPEN forum.

Also Charlie, does not the line on this forum which shows the number of users mean anything? Look here, look at the forum, why do you think so many jumped ship from there to come here? They rarely have more than 5-6 registered users on at any one time.  

This was an enjoyable hobby before I found anything on the Internet, and I sure don’t need forums to continue my enjoyment. In fact, if this is indeed the true policy into the future, my time here, however brief and enjoyable, we be ended as I elected to do with the yellow. I’m sure it is no sweat off anyone’s back here.

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: 70GTvert March 16, 2009, 12:47:42 AM

Open your eyes, you just did.

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: kirby999 March 16, 2009, 01:10:08 AM

The majority of the people on the forums , be it the GTA , the yellow , green or whatever, are good people , who are only there to read about and enjoy the hobby we love so much . Most like me could give a rats about the feud that seems to continue . that's their problem , not mine .Do I notice ? I can't help but to. I choose to not take sides and to try and ignore it , like I do a lot of other things that don't interest me . All the forums have rules , You just abide by them or move on, if you let it bother you. I for one just try and get along with everybody, try not to step on any toes , and post by the rules, it seems to work for me so far . Now lets go shoot some pellets . kirby

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: neric March 16, 2009, 02:23:44 AM

I've browsed several other forums, including the Yellow, but I always come back here regularly simply because this is the best forum IMO, it is easy to navigate, very well organized, easy to find info and friendly people.  The best service will survive and thrive.

I support the founders of this forum in their decision.  I think it similar to weeding a garden - gotta thin out the undesirables.  (goes for squirrels too,, hee hee,,,oh and most recently  'crows';  I get tired of hearing the noisy barking of squirrels and crows as well as their bullish natures)  

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: Magnum March 16, 2009, 03:15:40 AM

Bob,  I've not been in GTA forum that long but what I do know is thats its a great place to be,  many thanks to you and to all that help to run the GTA, especially Gene.  I have 2 GTR- III trigger's  and  always tell everyone how perfect and wonderful they are, ( I feel it is my right to say so!, the same way I like chevy's over a..well the other choices:) ) its a pleasure to do bussiness with you, I may just buy a trigger to mount on the wall of my office :)  
       I dont normally post or care about such things as "who shot john" but I decided to google and read up on this trigger issue, so I could at least be informed...curiousity just got to me! Firstly this trigger fight does not effect me directly and like most of us we have no "dog" in this one! This whole thing just stinks for you, unfortunately some things just arent meant to work out, I can understand your frustration.. nuff said:) Hopefully everything will settle down soon. Regards, Tony.

: Wonder if AoA plans to 'fix' triggers that won't fit?
: 3n00n March 16, 2009, 08:42:58 AM

Orhave they decided to just'backwards engineer' the GRTIII? (http://../images/emoticons/surprise.gif)

`

Intellectual 'property'ain'tworking product, that, and a sketchsure doesn't fixup a Gamo. . . (http://airgunhome.com/agforum/images/smiles/shrug.gif)

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: daved March 16, 2009, 08:56:25 AM

Don't know if this is the right thing to do, but I'm damn sure it's the fair thing to do.  No argument from me on this policy, I'm one of the many that have been banned from the Yellow over the years for mentioning the unmentionables of Bob, the GTA, or the GRT III.

Regarding being robots, why is it okay for the rank and file on the YF to support the Steve's without question, but the same thing here makes us mindless automatons?  Talk about not getting it...

So Gene/Bob, does this mean the mods are to delete posts on this subject automatically, or does it go through you two?  Thanks.

Dave

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: CharlieDaTuna March 16, 2009, 09:38:20 AM

Thanks Dave but I think that it should be left to Gene and myself to delete the posts. If they do come up though, perhaps we might be alerted. That way, if any heat comes up, let it be Gene and I that takes the heat and puts the fires out. We sure do appreciate the support though.

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: shadow March 16, 2009, 10:02:40 AM

So brother's and sisters let's let this subject ride into the sunset and set our sight's on airgun mod's, hunting, who just got a new baby to shoot and moving this great Forum and family forward together. :) Ed

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: imadogman March 16, 2009, 11:18:00 AM

I have to agreewith John (70GTvert). Even though I am fairly new here, I soon came to realize that there were some unresolved issues betweenBob and someone named Steve. When I realized what a childish attitude there was at the Yellow Forum regarding these issues, I promised myself to never do business with someone who censored and (in my opinion) slandered others. He will never see a dime of my money if at all possible. His attitude has cost him far more than the loss of Dollars. I have no respect for him, and it is starting to spread to others. And Eye for an Eye and a Trigger for a Trigger, I guess. Whateverhelps you sleep well at night.

Good luck!

BTW, Has Kliff ever made a trigger?

: I see your point but...
: PBJ March 16, 2009, 12:42:43 PM

Gene and Bob,
   I see your point on this one, each forum should follow the leadership in place. Just wish all this had never happened. There are lots of nice folks on the Yellow Page that we do not get to visit with because we are locked out if we tell them where our "home forum" is located. Hope they will push Steve to stop that practice. I would hope that our "welcome mat" stays out to those who might visit us from that part of the air gun world.

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: PelletPaul March 16, 2009, 12:56:07 PM

END OF STORY.............................

: Re: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: Gene_SC March 16, 2009, 02:18:05 PM

Bob especially had many roots in the yellow forum before all this happened Robert. He knows as well as I do that there are many good members on the yellow and all other forums. The door is always open for anyone from any forum to come and join us. We even have a link in the GTA Library to the yellow forum. It is there along with many other forum links.  Many GTA members visit other forums and that is good. Not one forum can serve everyone, but many forums can make our air gun community big and more informative about air guns.

: Gene's got a good point here...
: WVscott March 16, 2009, 02:49:37 PM

I usually visit 3 or 4 different forums...I really don't play favorites, but read them for informational purposes and sometimes for entertainment.  I really don't care what goes on with the trigger debate.  If I want to watch a sopa opera I'll get cable and turn on the tube.  I always try to look at the good side of people and have always felt you can learn something from anyone if you want to.  That's the way I look at airgun forums and the people that contribute to them.  
      regards, Scott

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: erskine March 16, 2009, 04:00:07 PM

Bob, Gene, count this as one vote.

I don't know that man. I don't do yellow snow or yellow pages, and I don't care about yellow snow or yellow pages...BECAUSE THEY ARE YELLOW...

Your trigger work is great. Poor fools who will censor your work or opinions because they are competition, are poor fools who do not understand the constitution of their great nation.

These are poor fools who should go back to school and learn that the FREE MARKET is the ultimate arbiter of change, advancement, and success, and that censorship, and arrogance are PROOF of a failed product.

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: crazy4salmon March 16, 2009, 05:14:32 PM

Who is Steve?  :0 I am with the GTA family.

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: 70GTvert March 17, 2009, 12:01:13 AM

Quote : "These are poor fools who should go back to school and learn that the FREE MARKET is the ultimate arbiter of change, advancement, and success, and that censorship, and arrogance are PROOF of a failed product."


See, in a round about way, you just agreed with me. So now, as minimal as it is claimed to be, we have Charlie applying his own censorship. It may be small, but like everything else, given time this too can change. It was soooooo much better when there was no censorship, when who was the bigger man was clearly shown.

There is no doubt Charlie has the better product, and NO amount of censure from the yellow has stopped that fact. This clearly is a bruised ego thing and one where pride takes precedence over sense. Again, HE did it, why can't I?

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: RedFeather March 17, 2009, 12:08:06 AM

The question in not so much Who is Steve? as  WHAT is Steve? :o

(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e20/RedFeather2/1231344950.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e20/RedFeather2/?action=view¤t=1231344950.jpg)


Avatars - Gotta love 'em! :D

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: volzone March 17, 2009, 01:39:19 AM

Bob and Gene, You guy's have my full support. Your forum, your rules, and, like everything else in this world, there must be rules for things to work. I am a very loyal 42 yr old man. I make my own decisions. I'm sorry that Bob is having this conflict with this yellow dude. I can understand why this problem has happened and why you had to apply these rules. I hope this will clear up soon for you. I really enjoy the GTA and my CharliedaTuna GRT III trigger.

Shane

ps: Sometimes negative attention can be good. Hopefully, alot of people who don't care who is in the right will think Wow!! sure is alot of talk about this GRT trigger--it really must be great--I better try one out.

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: cf42fwb March 17, 2009, 04:50:04 PM

Its all relevant.Shoot well,learn what you can,SHOOT ALL YOU CAN.And be a part of anything that will allow you to be better and what gives YOU a rise!

: RE: Notice--- About Steve's Trigger
: Silo March 18, 2009, 03:35:36 AM

Bob and Gene, you are both wonderful people and I love you both.
All the other folks that make up this forum are great as well, Heck
I have become good friends with
a bunch of them…. Here comes the “But”
I also like and respect a bunch of people over on the other forum.
In fact people on both “sides” of this thing have helped me get to where I am today
with air guns.

I pretty much stopped hanging out at both places because of this “fight” that’s been
going on in both camps, for as Bob says, years now….. I think it’s contrary to the rules
on both forums. Both forums don’t allow dealer bashing or personal disputes
to be aired on the forums (this is a really great rule BTW) it keeps the place “clean”
and functional…. But this fight is all over the place, aired out loud and involving
all the members on both sides “forcing” them to pick sides in what clearly is a
problem between two individuals that should have been settled years ago.

Personally I’d like to see this “camp” rise above this thing and just blow it off.
Bob, you have nothing to prove. Your work stands on its own two feet. Gene, this
forum is a fantastic place and ticks like a clock…. Lets be the ones to burry this
thing and put it to rest.

I’m sorry if I’m the “black sheep” here, but I guess I just hate conflict… especially
when it involves folks I care about.

Roald.