GTA
Target Shooting Discussion Forums General => Target Shooting General Discussion => : Big_Bill April 14, 2009, 04:22:31 AM
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FELLO MEMBERS, LET US KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHOOT ? WE WANT TO MAKE THESE SHOOTING MATCHES ENJOYABLE TO EVERYONE HERE, WE WANT EVERYONE TO SHOOT IN OUR GTA MATCHES ! SO COME ON IN, AND HELP US OUT !!!! YOUR ENVOLVMENT IS APPRECIATED !!!!! Bill
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Bill,
I suggest making the 10M open rifle and 5M open pistol 10-shot matches - two shots for five targets. This would make scoring easier, and allow more shooters to participate. The only negative comments I've noticed relate to "... taking too much time to shoot..."
Five shots per target is harder to score on the computer printed Gamo5 target. And, 20 shots is a long string for some of us especially new match shooters. Plus, it makes it difficult if you're trying to shoot all your matches at same time.
I expect most new shooters will try these matches before going to more difficult matches like the Steroid 15 or full 10M match pistol. Even the 10M Match Pistol is only 10 shots.
Just my thoughts,
George
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Hmm, will fewer shots per target be faster and easier to score? Yes.
Will it attract more shooters? I can understand how it might but I guess i just don't see that happening but it might keep current folks from getting bored.
If it's a matter of getting all the current match participants to participate in more matches than I do get it.
Personally - I'd rather pick a few matches I find challenging (and that compliment skills I'm working on) and shoot 20 count match each than try to participate in double the matches at half the shot count. But if there is one thing I've learned as i've gotten older, I'm usually not of the average opinion ;-)
I actually find the specialization of the "Target Gate" to be quite distracting. When folks are shooting 1377's in the Match Pistol comp then why is the Match Pistol comp there? I have zero objection just wondering why we don't call it a 10m open pistol? I'm all for multiple pistol and rifle matches but I don't see a benefit from trying to maintain them by type of pistol/rifle (my exception would be a true match style pistol/rifle comp if there is interest).
So - If you're still with me, and think the specialized target gates are distracting, than why not collapse them and set up a page with an easy way to access the individual matches??? Or a way to upload all the targets to one place and register scores. Takes me half as long to scan, upload and post as it does to shoot the matches (practice time not included)
That said, I need to go find an excuse to leave work early so i can go home and shoot.
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1) I agree with JQR on one thing for sure- there are too many Target Gates (even though I recommended a gate for pistols, originally). In retrospect, there aren't that many shooters, and we don't really need all the specialized forums, many of which are mostly unused. If I could shoot a springer pistol up there with the single pumps and gas guns, I would be very proud to do so.
2) I like the 5m open pistol format. That is only 15 shots, which shouldn't tax anyone too much, should it?Three shots per bull does make scoring easier. I wouldn't mind shooting 20 shots total, though.
I ammostly using the5m format to work up to "proper" 10m.
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Good points, Jeff and Dave. I agree on "too many" gates right now. As far as number of shots per target, I like the 3 shots/target in the 5M Open Pistol match. I don't mind shooting 20 shots in Open Rifle, but it does get harder to score with 5 shots per bull - especially on computer/copy paper. How about shooting 4 shots at 5 bulls? Or 3 shots @ 5 bulls like the open pistol?
I'd like to hear from some shooters who haven't shot any matches or few to get their input. Hey, Guys....You out there?
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Soon as I get thru my exam, I will have free time to shoot again.
About "match shooters" having a separate GATE, I think that is fair for both parties.
The match guys (like me) prefer to shoot the regulation match targets for consistent sight picture.
Although I will admit myself that the regulation 10m AR target is NOT a friendly target for the average shooter, it is pretty darn small.
On the flip side, with similar shooting parameters (ie off-hand, no scope), they could be more accurate than a hunter type, thus distorting the scores. Shooter aside, I personally think it is unfair for the guy shooting a Beeman P1 to be competing against a 10m match AP, similarly a R-9 to be competing with a 10m match AR. I can say categorically that I can shoot WAY better with my match guns than my sportsters. However, having said that, I do not shoot my match AR enough to shoot it well. As a result, someone good with a decent PCP/CA could easily outshoot me.
As for number of shots per target. I would say, that it depends on the shooter. If you can score all your shots with 10 shots per target, fine. But if you can't, then you should shoot less shots per target, such that you can score the target. So be it 10, 5, 4, 2 or 1, shot per target, that should be for the shooter to determine. Why waste paper if you don't need to.
As for AR targets, I think you have the basics.
For the GOOD AR guys, there is the steroid, with the smaller targets.
For the average AR guy, the larger Gamo target.
Depending on your shooting abilities, you choose one or the other (or both).
But for AP there really isn't a different target for the different levels of shooters, the Gamo and regulation AP targets are similar in size.
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I guess the only thing I can add is shrinking the number of catagories so it's easier to find where to post what.
Rifle:
Open and Match
Pistol:
Open and match
Custom:
either /or, whatever we come up with for any particular week to break up the monotony. Sometimes poking holes in cans is just too much fun if you can say "Hey look! I hit the 'E' in beer!"
I really don't care what you use to shoot. From what I've seen so far there is no jiving or carrying on about things like "Well he shot THAT gun and I only had THIS gun so it ain't fair."
Personally, I just want to shoot and rib or get ribbed by others who also want to shoot. Doesn't matter to me what you guys scores are because I'm only worried about mine. I know if I did good or bad with whatever I decide to pick up that day. I'm sure I beat myself up way more than you guys beat me up.
THAT's the definition of fun to me. No stress, no bickering over rules, no problems finding where to post, and no dissing someone who has a better more accurate gun than you and using it as an excuse to make you look bad or to make them look good.
Just shoot and have fun and rib each other, help each other, learn from each other, and all grow as one big happy shooting family.
I would shoot with or without these weekend matches anyway. But If I get the chance to participate with others that would also do the same it makes it just that much more enjoyable.
2cents
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The reason for this post, is to encourage more members to join in ! And make shooting here more enjoyable for everyone ! The Original reason for all the Gates, was to allow members with different airguns and a desires in shooting, to get together competing with the same type pistol or air rifle. Beginners are the backbone of the shooting sport, and I don't want to scare them off. I'm trying to find out what would bring them into our fold.. Thank you, Bill
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I'm with you, Ron, on attitude here. Let's just keep it fun. I still think 15-20 shots per match is too many for new shooters to have fun. With 10 shots, a new shooter can get lucky and score pretty high since it's a lot easier to shoot 10 shot strings than 20. It's no fun being at the bottom of the list all the time.
I'm just trying to offer ideas that would appeal to new shooters in the sport. And, I just want to have fun! I look forward to our matches every week.
As far as equipment goes, I see no reason that a shooter can't shoot a sporter rifle or pistol in the "match grade" competition. A lot of match shooters started with sporter equipment until they reached their limits - then upgraded to match quality.
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Since we are trying to get others to join in, I agree with simplifying/reducing the amount of matches. Since the Open Pistol went to the 3 shot format on the Gamo 5 (and lookalike targets), I find it to be quite pleasant to shoot. I like the target with the black bullseye, but as long as the scoring rings are the same size, who cares if someone else prefers the white bullseye?
I don't see myself competing with any of you here. I am only competing with myself. I am trying to improve my shooting, and comparing it to others who shoot similar guns is just one way to gauge where I am at.
I like the idea of 5M and 10M matches, and I may have room to shoot 10M indoors by next fall, but in the meantime, I am stuck with an indoor range of no more than 8M, unless I travel to an outdoor range, and I don't want to do that every week.
I am surprised at how much this shooting (5M Open Pistol) has done for my scores, and technique. I believe that I can shoot a higher score with my pistol at 5M than I can with my rifles at this time.
If you are a beginning target shooter, shoot a target and post your scores. No one cares if you are good or not, just that you want to join in on the fun. I promise you that with a little practice, you will soon be shooting better. I always shoot a higher score when shooting a designated Match target. I just seem to concentrate more.
Regardless, I say shoot what ya brung, pilgrim, and have a good time. When you get done skinnin yer first Grizz...I'll bring ya another one.
One more thing...Is anyone here shooting because there is money involved, or a trophy? Yeah, that's what I thought.
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Oh, one more thing...If you only want to shoot 10 shots per target, how about if I shoot 10 shots with my IZZY, then post another target with 10 shots from my new Crosman 2300KT, and/or another target with 10 shots from a different gun?
I like shooting more shots...it's good for my concentration YMMV
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I'm just a fun shoot kind of guy nowdays. Been there done that on the Comps. I sucked compared to 'real' shooters and I know it. My statement stands.
Run what you brung. Have fun.
Number of shots is good for you. 10 will let you play, 20 will build muscle memory and make you better.
Stick with 20.
Being at the bottom of the list is just a place, not an indicator of how much fun you had.
Lighten up. Even when competing all we won was a fancy piece of wood.
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Ron, I agree with the more shots for muscle memory. 15 shots minimum, maybe 20 maximum. I find that most of my shots that fall out of the bullseye, are fired within the first 5-10 shots that I make, not the last 5 or 10. I think that you also learn more about proper sight picture with more shots. At least that has been my experience.
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I want a Bench RestShootingEvent. Springers at 10 meters. Come on give an old fart what he wants...:)
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Oh, yeah, and a Bench Rest Event for Springers at 10 meters...why didn't I think of that?
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Ron,
I agree more shots [practice] builds better muscle memory. I guarantee you that a new shooter will shoot a 10 shot target, then another, and another, etc. and turn in his best score. So what? It's for FUN anyway, right? I'm just trying to offer some suggestions that might appeal to new shooters and get more people interested in our postal matches.
I'm way past my prime for competitive shooting - been there done that. I'm just having fun and hope to pass along some of that fun to new shooters. We have here. That's why I suggest we keep the matches simple & easy.
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Now there's a match even I can ACE! LOL!!
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'Being at the bottom of the list is just a place, not an indicator of how much fun you had. '
Thank you Ron! May I also add that being at the bottom of the list leaves only one direction to go and that is up! I will one day go up the list! I hope! I've been at the bottom of the 'steroid'15 list for the past 10 matches, and yes, I've had lots of fun, a bit of ribbing, and it's sunny. I will carry on my quest to improve!
As for number of shots, a '10 shot quickie' could be fun!
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Fewer shots, less time to shoot the match? Works for me. Other things are begging for my time as well these days....
If we cut out all the target gates but Open and Match Rifles and Open and Match Pistols does that mean we would be allowed to shoot pumpers in the Open Rifle Match or would it still be a separate match, but under the Open Rifle gate??
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I'm all for the 10 meters/33feet range ..Because I am in proccess of building one/moving stuff! :), I could also do a 5 meter pistol and just move closer. I have not shot in a match yet , however I am planning on joining in on all this target fun soon. I like the steroid 15 format so will likely start there.
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If you are trying to be able to shoot a regulation match, you need to build to 60 match shots + warmup/sighters.
So start at 10 and keep going, until you feel your aim getting too wobbly...THEN STOP. Do NOT shoot when wobbly, that will cause you to develop bad shooting habbits.
Next time see if you can shoot more before the wobbles get bad. Over time you will be able to gradually increase the number of shots you can do before you hold goes to pot.
The proposed 2 group format is similar to the old StraightShooters Challenge match of novice and marksman categories. You shot in whichever category you wanted to based on your skills. So you could shoot the marksman category with a BB gun if you wanted to. Or when I was shooting crummy, I would should the novice with my match gun, and be in the middle or bottom of the pack.
I will lobby for the open rifle target to be the Gamo target or the regulation 10m air PISTOL target or something else that is larger than the regulation 10m AR target. The reason for this is, IMHO the regulation 10m AR target is way too hard for the average shooter to shoot off-hand. That target is used in national and international competitions. A larger target is better for the average shooter to get decent scores on. And if he gets 95-100 all the time, then its time to move up to the next category.
BTW, when I first shot 10m w my match rifle, I would have scored a 0 one the steroid target. Could not shoot it worth a dang.
And as for reduced range. Just make a half size target and indicate that you shot it at 5 meters.
I agree, it is a lot easier to find 5 meters to shoot indoors than 10 meters.
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Hmm,
First thing I would like to say that I am having great deal of fun in these matches and exchanging notes with all:). I am competing against myself, compairing with others and having fun with those who are doing the same thing. I feel very fortunate to have found this great forum at the GTA. Like most things, it may be hard to please everyone and to collate all this info is going to be quite a chore I think!
For me about 20 shots minimum rifle is fine, I think its enough to get a good reading of how I'm shooting at that particular moment in time, I am happy with the number of shots as they are. It would take me about the same amount of time to shoot more or less shots once I set up anyway.
-As far as more people joining in.... I do think that a single gate for each type of match is the way to go, have sticky with a "print target here to play" and maybe the rules. Target shooting is not everyone's thing...but if it were easy to print a target and give it a shot it may help those on the fence:) Also Not everyone has choice of guns so I think to have some open matches would work well.
- I just like to shoot the same targets matches with the same gun each time with the idea being to improve each time. I prefer a not so easy medium target...I like a challenge and of course to have fun:)
Also I would probably enjoy any matches Ya'll came up with so long as there is a challenge and fun i would certainly try a 60 shot 10m standing postion for example:) For what its worth, about +/-10 matches a week seems to be my comfort point. The Targets and Matches that I like most are:-
Rifle
1. 25 yd open sight. a challenge to say the least!
2. 30 am Bench rest
3. 30m PCP front rest only
4. I would really enjoy a 10 m bench if there where to be one:) Not sure on a target to use at this point., but max 20 shots seems enough to keep the challenge up:)
5. 10m open rifle. I do 4 shots at 5 not 5 shots at 4 targets, its easier for me to see score.
6. 10m standing rifle , steroid15
7. Although I stopped doing this one ...10m single pump rifle I liked because I could use my 853 W/peeps but did not seem popular and I not like to do it alone:) I now just compete against my kids on this one.
Pistol
1. 10m GTA, 10 shots, one hand.
2. 10m pistol open
3. 5m pistol open
4. 10m multi pump pistol / iron sights, 3 shots at 5 targets. A real challenge!
Ok thats all I can think of for now, Tony.