GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Back Room => : DanoInTx June 29, 2009, 12:18:48 PM
-
.....couple buddies from work invited me to go out skeet shooting this past weekend. I've never shot skeets, and only once in my life have shot a shotgun at all....when I was 13 years old. I have to say, those skeets are pesky little devils, but they are sure fun to kill. I've been researching shotguns all afternoon, think I may add my very first powder burner to the stable.....doh!
-
Go for it Dano !!
A nice 12 gauge will make you feel so much better, even when your at home, and not out hunting !
After all, It's only Smokeless Powder Money ! :emoticon:
Bill :)
-
Back away Dan !!! it can get real expensive , even more than airguns . Don't ever try sporting clays . Talk about fun. My wife and I went a few times with a friend of mine and her husband a few years back. Cost me about $75-$100 each time we went IIRC , and I was shooting a Remington 870 20 gauge . kirby
-
I think you're right Bill, it's probably about time I get myself armed. I've been wanting to for awhile anyways, but my wife is very afraid of firearms. I think with a little more work and a good safe she will come around. I'd actually like to get her out shooting with me too, but even though I built her an airgun of her very own, she has only shot it twice. She may like the skeet though, more action than pellets on paper:)
-
HOLY COW!
Dano - you don't own a shotgun?!! And only recently shot one for the first time??!!!! We need to talk, buddy. You going for over/under, pump, or semiauto? Browning Citori, Remington 870 Wingmaster, or Baretta A303? And of course, you know you will need some reloading equipment, right? Boy are you in for an awakening.
Check it out:
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=008B&cat_id=013&type_id=355
ooooooooohhh, aaaaaaahhhhhhh. I may need one, too. 28" 12 Gs. Sporter. The only shotgun you will ever need.
-
Doesn't GAMO make an air shotgun :)
Sorry, I couldn't resist......
Jeff
-
LOL Jeff.... I bought me a ShotGun last summer for personal protection. Got 500 shells which would be more than enough but just in case they come collecting our firearms I will blast there butts with lead..:)
-
I "think" this is what I was shooting on Sunday http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_condor.php and I also shot a synthetic stocked semi-auto, which I liked a little more(don't know the brand). I first shot a gun, any gun, airguns included when I lived with my uncle when I was 11-13 years old. He was in law enforcement and I HAD TO learn some basic gun safety just to live in that house, he is an avid collector. In the Navy I shot a .22 pistol in bootcamp, then spent some time with my cousin shooting his .22lr. I shot his 12 gauge when I was 13 with him leaning up against my shoulder so it wouldn't knock me over and only took 1 or 2 shots. I have never shot a rimfire at all, and have only shot a .22 half a dozen times since bootcamp. I'm pretty naive when it comes to firearms, my mom quickly confiscated my Daisy 880 when I moved back to her house after living with my uncle, hence the need to own adult airguns now. If you've ever talked firearms with me you can quickly learn that I have no clue what you're talking about, I remember your brother Jerry showing me one of his pistols when I went to his house and he could have been describing brain surgery and I would have understood just as well...haha!! I love shooting and airguns seem to work fine for me, but I'm definately interested in powder burners, just never really had anyone take me out shooting so I could really learn much more than "don't look down the barrel". I think I will get a shotgun here before too long, just have to save some $$$'s and talk my wife into it:)
-
It wasn't too bad. We had two boxes of clays at $20 a box, and 3 boxes of 12 gauge ammo at $20 a box, so $100 total for three guys and we had some ammo left over. I don't think I could shoot more than the 70 or so shots I took yesterday, I gots a bruise the size of Texas on my shoulder as it is, haha!
-
Dano, Dano . . .
OK, well we have a lot of ground to cover, I see. Probably to start with, we need to get you a Ruger 10/22 (22LR rimfire), a Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle (.223 centerfire), an Abrhams M1A (308/7.62 mm semi-auto military style assault rifle), a Remington 870 12 ga. (basic pump shotgun), and probably a SigSauer P225 (.45ACP semi-auto pistol). Then we can fill in the gaps in your firearm collection after you outfitted with the minimum basic arsenal and 1000 round or so of ammo for each of the weapons mentioned. BTW, how much is in your bank account?
-
TCups - 6/29/2009 8:53 PM
.......... BTW, how much is in your bank account?
Not much pal, I think I just need to find a shotgun for now so I can kill some more of those skeets. Btw, I've been thinking of dragging my 13 year old and my 11 year old along with me, you think a .410 would be good for them? I know they can't shoot a 12 gauge, but have no idea what would be "too much" for a young kid to handle without getting turned off. Wonder if I can rent guns at the range, not in a big hurry to buy them guns that will just sit in the safe like their airguns do. My 13 year old is a little on the small side for his age, would a .410 be an effective skeet hunter?
-
Don't bother with a .410 Dan. It's actually harder to hit a clay pigeon with a .410. Get them a 20 ga. Not too much for a 13 yr.old and they can use it the rest of their life.
-
.410's are easy to shoot, but hard to hit with -- not enough shot in the pattern. Your boys will do better with something like an 870 pump, .20 ga. youth model. For you, I would suggest and over/under 12 ga, particularly if your intent is to shoot skeet, trap, or sporting clay. If you think you would like to hunt dove or quail, you might want to go with a Beretta semi-auto 12 ga. The third shot comes in handy. If you want to shoot waterfowl (ducks, geese) you will need a 3" or 3.5" 12 ga. magnum. I would suggest a 2 3/4" over/under for you, though. Good basic shotgun. My tastes run toward the Brownings, especially the Browning Citori and Belgium Browning Light 12 and Light 20 semi-autos. Beretta makes good shotguns, too, but I see that the price of good shotguns has increased considerably over the last 20 years since I last bought one.
-
These darned shotguns cost almost as much as good airguns! Just looked and it looks like the range where I went rents shotguns for $10, so I'll take the boys out and let them shoot a little before I go investing in a gun for them, they may not even like it... Thanks for the info folks:)
-
See:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132559208
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132233495#PIC
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132469869#PIC
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132305091#PIC
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=132309288#PIC
etc.
-
now i get it, one of my buddies just tried to talk me into skeet shooting. i see that it was just a plot to get me addicted to something else! thanks for the warning, i shall heed your words of wisdom. :o
-
Back in the Stone Age Dano, - I worked with a guy who had won the Grand American on Wide World Of Sports at 19, - the youngest to ever do it - Steve Fabbri. He won a Camreo for his efforts. He had won all kinds of skeet & trap tournaments, - got it from his father who was career Army, on the Olympic shooting team. ... One day he asked me if I was interested in giving trap & skeet a try, - sure why not? I had never even held s shot gun at the time. ... We went to this range one Saturday - he said "I want to give something a try". He gave me a couple of quick pointers on skeet shooting - but no real instruction. Then he said ok, - you do what you can and "I'm gonna shoot from the hip". .. Shooting from the hip he beat me something like 14-9 as I recall. He did give me some VERY good instruction later - and we used to shoot quite a bit later on. I never developed much of an interest in skeet, - but trap is another story. ... Best of luck, - it's a great way to spend some time. .... (Just remembered - most here probably don't know/remember anything about Wide World Of Sports program on tv)
-
DanoInTx - 6/29/2009 6:18 PM
I've been researching shotguns all afternoon, think I may add my very first powder burner to the stable.....doh!
You have done it. I shoot trap on a regular basis. I have a Weatherby Orion O/U that I can highly recommend. It comes in under $1300., is a solid shooter and good looking to boot. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/166/products_id/52750
-
Dano.
If I might suggest.
Don't buy a shotgun in the heat of newbi fun !!!!
Try every shotgun you can. Shotgunners (except maybe some trap shooters) tend to be nice folk and are looking to help newbi's. And get advice on what to look for in shotgun fit and why. Unlike any other type of firearm, shotguns have to "fit" you for a couple of reasons. And dispite good intentions, beware, not all advice will work for Dano. Because of the individaul nature of shotgun fit, what works well for others could be a disaster for you.
Reson being, your eye is the rear sight, where and how your head fits on the stock is about 95% of how well you will shoot that gun.
And it's not just length of pull as in rifles. If your broad shouldered like I am, you need cast-off in a stock or you'll be tipping your head and your eyes won't be level. Or, cast-on for narrow build. Both of which, if not properly fitted, affects depth perception for moving targets. If you have to scrunch your head down on the stock and your head is tipped sideways, probaly it's the wrong gun for you. Ideally, you want a gun where you can bring the gun up to your head with the butt in the pocket of your shoulder, eyes level, and your dominant eye looking down the top of the barrel.
Gun fit also has a big affect on precived recoil, which can lead to flinching.
At skeet distances, a 20 gauge is the equal of a 12 and the family may enjoy it more. Many competitive skeet shooters shoot the 20 ga in the 12 ga events.
And many new shooters are surprised at how well they do with light loads when they are thinking, "I need more pellets !".
However, the lighter guages can work against you. Not all guages react as you would assume. A 20 ga shooting 7/8 ounce of shot, and being a lighter gun, has about the same recoil as a heavier 12 ga shooting 1 to 1-1/8 ounce. I like to shoot ALOT, so I add weight to my guns until they are in the 8-1/2 pound range. I shoot with a Registered trap Perazzi owner who has his single barrel hogged out and leaded up to 12 pounds. My friend shoots skeet with a long barreled Brown Citori Trap that has two mercury recoil reducers in it - 11-1/2 pounds total weight, but impossable to stop a good swing/follow-through.
Also, gun brand and price has NOTHING to do with how well you'll break clays in skeet. I shoot with Browning, Beretta and Perazzi shooters, many who shoot in local and state comp, and I beat them as much as they beat me with my old Mossberg pump. It's all about practice, and expensive guns don't leave as much money to practice with as the inexpensive ones.
Case in point, I once shot skeet with an old farmer who showed up with a pre-war, short barreled 12 ga pump riot gun he bought after WW2 in an auction from the NY State prison system. He shot two rounds, broke all 50, then went home. It's the only gun he has and he's been shooting it for about 50 years.
Three basic rules to remember when picking a shotgun.
1. Proper fit for you, not what fits your buddies.
2. Pick a gun you can afford to shoot, not what you can afford to look good with.
3. Recoil affect is cumulative !!!!! Weight is the only thing that reliably soaks up recoil. Shoot the heaviest gun you can 'comfortably control'.
Hope you get the "skeet" bug and get it bad !!!!! :D
Paul
-
Thanks for the advice. I'm going again next weekend and will most likely take my two oldest sons with me. I plan to rent a 20 gauge for them to try out, and for me to try out as well. Last weekend I shot a walnut stocked OU and a synthetic stocked semi-auto. The OU was quite a bit heavier, but it kicked like a mule on steroids, but I guess the semi-auto uses up some of the recoil to rechamber the next shell? The semi-auto also had a shorter barrel, don't know what difference that makes. I know I shot the much lighter semi-auto a bunch more than the OU because of the felt recoil. After 3/4 of a box of shells I don't think it mattered what I shot, my shoulder still has a nice bruise:)
-
DanoInTx - 6/30/2009 8:40 AM
After 3/4 of a box of shells I don't think it mattered what I shot, my shoulder still has a nice bruise:)
That is where proper fit comes in. I can shoot hundreds of rounds and there is no bruise or discomfort whatsoever.
Ariscool gave you some good advice with the exception of the "cheap shot" at trap shooters.
-
Hey Dano ; a little warning about shotguns , especially the 12 gauges . Don't let anybody slip in a magnum shell on you. I had a bright idea once that I wanted to deer hunt with slugs with a 12g pump. So I bought a Remington 870 Wingmaster and a couple of boxes of slugs and some buckshot . Let me tell you it only took a few shots for me to realize , I'd made a mistake . Those things are brutal . They kick more than a 300 win mag . kirby
-
Dan,
Great, try every gun you can get your hands on.....even if you don't think it's a gun you like, or that it will fit, it will serve to let you know what doesn't work for you.
And, before you start looking, make sure you know which is your donminant eye.
If you haven't checked, point you finger at a far object. Don't move your finger, or your head, just close one eye at a time and see with which eye, the finger and the object best line up. That's your donimant eye regardless if your right or left handed. Short-cut to good shotgun shooting is to learn to shoot whatever way your donimant eye says is your shooting side.
Again, you shouldn't have to lean sideways to get your cheek properly on the stock and be able to see down the center line of the barrel. Also, you shouldn't feel like you have to "crawl' your face around the stock to get your dominant eye lined up with the barrel centerline.
Quick test for fit.....
Make sure your facing in a safe direction, action open.
Close your eyes and bring the gun up to your face, butt in the hollow of your shoulder ( never bring your head down to the gun). Quickly open them looking past the end of the barrel and see where your dominant eye is looking in relation to the the centerline of the barrel. If the 'cast' fit is good you should be looking right down the center of the barrel. Because I have wide shoulders, I have to put cast-off in all my shotgun stocks.
Sometimes the rear of the barrel lines up properly, but the barrel seems to angle off some from where your eye naturally wants to look as soon as you open it. Pass on that gun - it takes some tricky stock/reciever fitting, which is best left to pros.
Next is to check for height.
Many shotguns have two beads. One large at the end of the barrel, a small one halfway along the barrel.
For skeet, you mostly will need one that shoots "flat" - the front bead is hidden by the rear bead. For trap, a "high" gun, one where the beads apear more of a figure eight shape.
Changes in stock length and adding or changing a cheek pad can adjust the height, so don't let it turn you off is the stock cast is good, but the gun shoots high or low for you.
And don't be afrid to ask other shooters if you can try thier gun "on for size". They've all been where you are and just like with airgunners, most are willing to help spread the sport and see others enjoy it. It's always more fun to have more shooters to shoot with !!!!
Jim,
The 'cheap shot' was for just "some" trap shooters. I shoot alot of trap too, and I've spent enough time around trap shooters to know that some of them deserve a cheap shot now and then(they've given me plenty in return). The same type of guys who make fun of skeet and sporting clays shooters saying they should all wear a dress.
But, I know you don't fit in that catigory ! :emoticon:
Paul.
-
Kirbi.
Since clay target shooters always have to have the gun action open when not on station and about to take a shot, most don't use the gun's safety. Some old target shotguns guns don't even have a safety.
The usual trick is to go over to the gun rack and while the guy is yacking with his buddies, sneek the gun safety on. Then wait and see if he yanks the trigger and razz him about that terrible case of 'flinch' he's got !
Paul
-
Hey Dano:
The fit is critical, yes. But I find that I track the target, clay or feathered, and swing the shotgun up and into my field of vision without ever taking my eye off the target and without consciously trying to line up the sights. My experience is that if I have to take the time to carefully "aim" a shotgun, I am behind the target and have already missed. But then, I am goofy, being right handed and shooting left handed, and I don't pretend to be an accomplished trap or skeet shooter. In my day, I have killed my share of dove and quail, though. And they don't fly in a straight line at a constant velocity, so the shot often has to be almost reflex. Having a LOP too short to swing the shotgun up with the stock firmly shouldered is what pounds and bruises your shoulder. And if you get really aggressive, I have a 10-ga. 3.5" magnum BPS w/ 32 in barrel, a goose gun from my days in Cape Girardeau, MO that you can try. It kills at both ends. A real man's shotgun. LOL
-
Yeah, I been thinking shotgun lately too. Figured it would work for hunting, trap, and home security. Used to shoot a little trap in my teens. Thought it might be fun to try it again. Or maybe sporting clays.
Got me a 12 ga Remington 870. I tried the tips on fitting a shotgun in this thread and it seems like it will work just fine. Now I just need to find the time and place to try it out!
Just like with pellet guns, when it comes to scatter guns, make mine a pump! Clackity-clack!
-
.....all of the different shotgun disciplines? skeets, traps, clays? All I know is I shot those clay flying saucers 2 at a time after they were slung from the launcher? This is an honest question, I am REALLY that naive about these things.
-
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/index.php
-
cool, thanks!
-
The first time I shot sporting clays , It was in a big field and all the throwers were on a tower and I would stand in an area that was framed with lattice work . Each thrower would cast the clays in a manner that represented different animals or birds in their natural flight or run, such as ducks coming in to decoys or doves flying over, even a rabbit hopping across in the front of you. That was fun. Then I went to a facility that had it set up as woods walk , where you walked along a trail and stopped at different stations along the way . That was really a hoot. Except for the expense , I could see how one could get caught up in the action and fun. BTW all three times I went, my wife beat me , the first 2 times with a borrowed gun and the last time with a youth model Remington 870 express pump in 20 gauge , I bought her . I have never been a shotgun shooter , still not very good at it, but my wife had never shot a shotgun before her first trip . kirby
-
Sporting clays is great fun, but as you've found out, it can also be expensive for the cost per clay thrown.. and it can be very intimidating/frustrating for many beginers.
Skeet is a very good way toquickly learn changes of lead with changes of position at minumal cost per clay thrown. For practice, many teachers have a studant stand on one station and shoot all 25 birds from the station to help "burn" the visual lead for that angle into your brain. For sporting courses can afford to do that for a beginer.
Also, clubs that do "Five Stand" (Sporting clys done on a skeet field) tend to charge less per clay thrown because they can do it with the fewer trap machines. Also, Trap will help learn the longer, shallower angles.
And my favorite is" Wobble Trap". A standard trap machine which is not only the random swing laft and right, but has an aditional motor/gear box for random vertical too........ then work your way out 10-15 yards, or more to either side of the standard trap stations ...... real fun for about as cheap as it gets !!!!!
Paul.
-
airiscool - 7/2/2009 9:53 AM
Also, clubs that do "Five Stand" (Sporting clys done on a skeet field) tend to charge less per clay thrown because they can do it with the fewer trap machines. Also, Trap will help learn the longer, shallower angles.
And my favorite is" Wobble Trap". A standard trap machine which is not only the random swing laft and right, but has an aditional motor/gear box for random vertical too........ then work your way out 10-15 yards, or more to either side of the standard trap stations ...... real fun for about as cheap as it gets !!!!!
Paul.
We shoot wobble trap Tuesdays and 3 Saturdays a month. We do 5 stand with 8 throwers on the other Saturday. At $25.00 a year and $4.00 a round it's hard to beat.
-
kirby999 - 6/29/2009 8:51 PM
Back away Dan !!! it can get real expensive , even more than airguns . Don't ever try sporting clays . Talk about fun. My wife and I went a few times with a friend of mine and her husband a few years back. Cost me about $75-$100 each time we went IIRC , and I was shooting a Remington 870 20 gauge . kirby
Yea I'd like to get back into some firearms shooting, especially pistol, but ammo prices are so high now.