GTA
General Discussion To Gateway To Airguns => Back Room => : larspawn November 10, 2009, 03:23:32 PM
-
Okay "Quality vs Quantity" was fun. Now let's stir up the pot some more...
Poser or Real Deal...
Is someone who can afford expensive rifles but can't work on them a poser? And is the real air gunner someone who takes the time to understand them and works on his own albeit less expensive rifles? Put another way would you rather be the guy that has a Rapid but doesn't have a clue how it works or be the guy who can barely afford a Gamo but knows how to wring the most out of them?
Hot line...fire away!
Andy Wong aka larspawn
(Note to moderators: If this gets too dicey feel free to pour some cold water on it.)
-
Man Andy, are you trying to get banned?
-
I don't think either one applies by your definitions.
I've been racing and competitive shooting for quite a few years and your descriptions of "Poser or Real Deal" can be applied to those as well.
In racing, I know guys and ladies who have absolutly NO CLUE how a bike works. Other than it does what they tell it to do. BUT, they can ride their butts off. Most of the time allot better than those who have full understanding of how the machine works.
Same goes for shooting. I know a few people who can't take their guns apart to clean them (they rarely do anyway) and have no idea how to hand load. They use factory ammo or handloads that someone else worked up for them. And yet they win most of the meets they enter or come pretty close.
I my eyes, "The Real Deal" is a person that does what they do because they love it. They broaden their horizons by trying new things and experimenting with the intricacies of their hobbies. Plain and simply put, they're having FUN.
"Posers" are generally those who have more money than they know what to do with. They find something that peaks their interest for the moment and buy every conceivable product related to that particular hobby just to say they have it or tried it. They're also the ones who'll tell you that if it cost less than such and such amount of dollars "It's crap" . Then after a few weeks or months they drop the hobby like a bad habbit because something else has peaked their interest.
THEN they try to auction their stuff off for top dollar plus 10% on EBay saying that it's "CUSTOM" . Generally these people tend to make me sick to my stomach.
-
Hmmm, I buy inexpensive rifles, but I buy all my rifles threw tuners already tuned.(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif)
YUP! Im a poser(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif)
If i were to tinker with my AG, as a mater of fact tinker with anything, history has tought me im just breaking it. (http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-frown.gif)
EDIT: I like the way SDALE puts it, sooooo,I take it back. Im not a poser!!!(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cool.gif)(http://../jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif)
-
Well Andy,
I believe that there is a place for both types of shooters ! I have worked on my air guns, on my C02, totally, to the bones !
But if I want my HW-30 tuned, it goes right to Gene, an expert that knows the ropes, and does an excellent job. Not to mention preserving the value of my baby.
The same holds true for my R-9, I want Gene to perform his learned magic on it. .I don't want to perform a "tune" that won't hold a candle to Gene's Tune !!!! And I'm not lucky to live close to Gene and Bob to be instructed in the Art of Air Gun Tuning :(
Many air gunners play with there own air guns, but when they go to sell them, and advertise that it has been tuned, you seldom see an increase in value ! But if you sell an air gun that has been tuned by Bob or Gene, or another popular or famous Tuner, you will see an increase in the value !
So I believe that there is a place in the Air Gun Kingdom for ALL air gun shooters.
I have worked on all the powder burners that I currently own, but I have owned a Weatherby and a Rottweil Match Trap Gun, and I never did anything to them other than clean them, that's because I asked God togive me the wisdom to know what I should attempt, and therestraint to keep my hands of of the guns I should leave to the experts !
Bill
-
Hee Hee Paul. Its that Devil on my left shoulder that sometimes overpowers the Angel on my right shoulder! LOL.
Just like when I was a kid, boredom gets me in trouble...
Okay guys rules are no low blows. Just tryin to have fun...
-
Andy, I guess under your definition, I would be a little of both.
I don't really want to tinker with my rifles unless there are not shooting the way I want.
I'm not one with a lot of the extra green stuff so I beg borrow and, trade to get what I want.
If I have to tinker with a rifle just a little to get it to do what I want, I will do it.
I am sure I can do a tune but I would rather have Bob or Gene do it.
There is no way I can even imagine matching there understanding with them so I will leave it to them.
-
Being a tinker-er at heart... if I thought that tinker-ers were the only "true" type of air gunner, I'd be very upset if a non-tinker could out shoot me. I think I'll spare my ego the brusing and go with ....
Anyone who enjoys shooting air guns is fine by me !!!! :D
Paul
-
Paul,
You know I have to agree with you. One year, flush with some commission money, I bought Litespeed and Yeti bikes (too expensive). The guys started calling me a poser which was odd because I had biked with them for a while and was in the fast pack anyway. It seems the bike you ride can somehow break groups up in to castes if you will. At the air gun events I've been to it seems everybody is the same regardless of what you shoot. At the last shoot guys with high end Walthers, Weihrauch, and USFTs were swapping rifles with guys with Quests and BAMs. All was good and the talk was not about how much they cost but how well we could shoot. So you are right it is about the joy of shooting and not per se about the equipment although we can all appreciate fine shooters!
To the others, I also understand the skill and knowledge that pro-tuners have. Yes we may never reach that level of evolution but I can tell you the joy of taking something apart and making it better really rocks my boat. Yes others can do it better but the personal satisfaction of saying I did that is priceless. So to all of those that haven't "wrenched" their own I say go for it (I'd also say buy an inexpensive rifle with good potential to do it on...Crosman, Gamo and Chinese are great for this.)
Thanks all and glad I didn't cause class warfare or a riot here!
Andy
-
What the heck I will reply LOL:) Hmm well that may be provocative:) "quality vs quantity" or should I say a wise man/woman can figure out that One tuned R-9 is better than 8 hatsans? So is the one with 8 guns a poser or the one who tuned is R-9? I have never worried what others think.., some like to make the make the clock so to speak and some just want to tell the time... I like both and I get great enjoyment from checking out other peoples cool stuff in fact the cooler the better:) FWIW I am more proud of my Gene tuned gun than the self tuned gun and not sure what that means? hehe:) Tony
-
Tony, hey mind if I steal the make the clock, tell the time saying. I like that.
Guess I like them all because I fall into the collector/quantity group. I couldn't sleep after I let one of my rifles go. And that was in a trade. Geez I worry what happens when I sell one outright. LOL
Hmm, guess we'll find out because I'm going to sell off a few to fund an IZH-46m. I'll be a wreck!
Andy
-
Andy, No problem.. I get that stuff from my dad he is full of things like lol:) Tony
-
Well, its like racing like sdale said: You have the crew who know all about the car from the inside out, and then you have the guy who drives the car. Some drivers just follow directions, others know their car like a friend. Which one is the Poser? I have no clue...
I love to tinker and take stuff apart, but it seems that, though I can put it back together, it never seems to work the way it's supposed to.......
-
larspawn - 11/10/2009 9:23 PM
Poser or Real Deal...
I just want to know what time it is. When I have a toothache I go to the dentist. When my truck needs work I take it to a mechanic. The fridge breaks I call an appliance repairman. Does that make me a poser. I don't think so. Am I a tinkerer, hell no. I don't have the time or the patience to tinker with anything. I would rather have someone who knows what they are doing make a living at what they are good at and I will survive from what I am good at.
I would also rather see airgunners brought together than see a wedge trying to divide them.
By definition the original post would be considered trolling. I hope that wasn't your intent.
-
It has been said that a " Man has got to know his limitations". Some can shoot very well, but cannot or prefer not to work on thier shooters. Either Airgun or Powder burner. Some can do a bang up job "Tuning" an AG. However, they may not be the best shots.
This applies to just about everything outthere.
And in some cases, the cost of procuring the necessary tools is too high for the home gamer to justify becoming a " do it yourselfer". Not counting not having a suitable place in which to do the work.
And as far as not having a "Clue about how something works", I use a computer and cannot tell you how it works. Or the software it uses.
-
Bogey,
LOL about the computer!
jwh2,
Not sure what the "board" definition of "trolling" is but I'll look. Only trolling I know outside of fishing is what we said the guys did in college after a night partying. Okay there weren't a lot of good looking women were I went to school!
Trust me I'm not a bad person...
Andy
-
Not much of a tinkerer myself.....I only fix my airguns or bicycles if they need fixing. If an airgun is 80% ok....I`ll leave it alone....and won`t try to make it 100%. Now on the other hand...if something malfunctioned with the airgun.....now I don`t have a choice....I`ll open her up to fix or change that piece.....and do a home tune while at it.
-
Andy,
You know how to stir the pot. LOL
A lot of good answers too. There's room and a place for all types. Like mentioned already, there are folks that are better at some things than others. As a USAF avionic electronics technician, I could repair and tune a box to do anything you wanted. But, once installed in the aircraft, I could not fly it to play with it in real life. The pilot could fly the aircraft and operate the heck out of the boxes but they wouldn't know which end of the screwdriver to use to work on the units. HeeHee
As a computer technician and network administrator, I set up a lot of workstations. I have users that can dance all around inside the software and do all kinds of things. I build computers and servers in my sleep and these same users wouldn't know the difference in RAM and ROM. (Sorry, a little computer geek analogy thrown in.)
With those examples, I would say I'm the type that likes (HAS TO) know how things operate or come apart. I'm always looking to make something perform better. If it's broke, I'll tear into it. I can't hurt it, it's already broke. There are folks out there that know a HECK of a lot more about tuning an AG than I do and have been doing a fantastic job for years. I am a former engineer and back yard tinkerer. I love the sport of shooting. Combining all that, I'll tear my own guns down and try to make them better shooters. I enjoy shooting and the results (hopefully) from my labors.
So, which am I??? hmmmmm...Real Deal Poser????
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
:emoticon:
-
Now, I know darn well that I replied to this thread with a picture that was NOT overly provocative. In fact, it was the banner of the Yellow's Off Topic Lounge for a while and you know how strict Steve is over there. Moderators - can't live with them, can't....... aarhggg, I'm bein' moderated! :D
-
One of the things I like about air guns is being able to make them better than when they came from the factory, This is part of the air gun thing with me . Not everyone has this gift yes I consider the ability to fix most things a gift . My real skill and training is in wood working but some how I've been given the ability to work on most mechanical things and sometimes made my living at mechanical stuff.I don't want to be a tuner or a professional airgun smith even though the only difference between a professional and amateur is the professional gets paid for what he does. But we do what we can and if part of the fun is not only shooting but keeping your equiptment in top working shape or improving it that's is what it's about. For the people who need help from a tuner lets hope that they can aford to pay for it. We used to say in the boat work if you own a boat you need to be either able to fix the thing or have a garbage can full of money. It's not just being able to take apart and put together a gun but to be able to see in your head what is happening inside and how each part works with each other.howie
-
SDALE said it perfectly. I personally seem to collect more. I dont get to shoot as much as I would like, but when I do I love it. I jumped into airguns and bought a bunch fairly soon without much of a clue. But I love each airgun that I have. [ yes, even my Viper Express ]I cant afford, nor do I want a $500 or more airgun. Of course I have never fired one, so that may be why,but thats a lot of money to me. I dont have a problem with someone buying a $500 or even a $2000 airgun. Its just not for me. There are about 6 or 8 more air rifles that I want, none cost over $ 300. Heck I could get 3 of the list for a total of $300! I would much rather send Gene my Big Cat for a turbo tune than get a $ 500 Beeman or whatever. Maybe thats because I have never fired one like I said, but if you really read this and other forums [ that are actually still active ], you will see people having the times of their lives with what some would refer to as junk. None of the airguns that you see on the bottom of my posts are what most people would drool over, But I love them all. I drool over my cfx .22, Falcon Hunter and Varmint Hunter. My Baikal is AWESOME to me, and I shoot my Quest the most. I would like to point out that airguns of all types brought us all together in this family, [ Yes, even my Viper Express ], and that is AWESOME. [ stop making fun of my Viper Express ]
-
Yes, it's not about the amount of money one spends or the amount of mechanical know-how one possesses, it's one's attitude that makes one a poser.
Whether I buy ultra nice airguns or low-dollar airguns shouldn't matter. If I cannot even clean my airgun due to llack of mechanical ability or if I can build a gun from parts, it shouldn't matter. As long as I am enjoying shooting my gun and helping other to enjoy the sport all is good. Once I begin to look down my nose at you because you can't or won't spend as much as me, or can't fix or build a gun like me, then perhaps I have become a poser. Or at the least a snob, which is probably even worse for any hobby or sport including airgunning.
-
I don't think NOT working on your guns makes you a poser, there are many folks that love to shoot and collect that couldn't fix a busted spring to save their lives. I think the common bond isn't the mechanical aspect of things so much as the love of the hobby. I could've bought powder burners, or RC airplanes for that matter, but I choose to spend my time/money on the things that turn my gears, that being air guns.