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PCP - HPA - C02 Gate => PCP DarkSiders Forum => Topic started by: bil601 on March 10, 2010, 09:42:53 AM

Title: Thinking Of Getting a Sam Yang
Post by: bil601 on March 10, 2010, 09:42:53 AM
Any pros  or cons.  What kind of power are you getting. Any difference in the 909, 909S besides air vol.?
Title: RE: real good power......
Post by: Butcher on March 10, 2010, 01:30:47 PM
whether you get the 2tube 909, or the 909S.  Check out the post on hollowpoint testing right below this one.

As far as power-tuned SamYangs go (I highly suggest getting a power done to your 909): you get a bit more power with the tuned 909S, and it is probably a better choice if you will be wanting to hunt with very heavy boolits a lot. Many will say they like the aesthetics/balance of the 909S better than the 909.
The 2tube 909 gets a lot more shots at consistent velocity, that will be more useful for target shooting/plinking, and plenty powerful enough for hunting deer/predators. Pick your poison. The correct fill pressure for the boolit you shoot can make a lot of difference.

Here are some numbers from my tuned 2tube 909, along with a friends stock 2tube 909. I haven't confirmed these numbers with the chrony at my standard 10 feet from the muzzle yet (doing that today, whoops, actually tomorrow as it just started hailing), but they appear to be accurate. I will correct this post should I find out otherwise.

Hornady .457RoundBall
3000psi
886.3=249fpe
874.3=242fpe
859.3=239fpe

Hornady .457RoundBall
3100psi
873.2=242fpe
865.3=237fpe
843.9=226fpe

Hornady .457RoundBall
3200psi
870.4=240fpe
876.6=244fpe
858.1=233fpe

BigLube ROA's 210grains approx BHN9 alloy
3000
767.4=274fpe
773.1=278fpe
764.7=272fpe
744.9=258fpe

BigLube ROA's 210grains approx BHN9 alloy
3100psi
743.3=257fpe
771.2=277fpe
769.5=276fpe
758.7=268fpe

BigLube ROA's 210grains approx BHN9 alloy
3150psi
748.6=261fpe
773.6=279fpe
775.3=280fpe
767.8=274fpe

BigLube ROA's 210grains approx BHN9 alloy
3200psi
750.6=262fpe
780.9=284fpe***
780.8=284fpe***
758.4=268fpe

Sure Fire Raptors (?215-220grains?)
3000psi
735
742.6
743.1

Lee ROA's 220grain (from BHD)
3000psi
744.6=270fpe
764.8=285fpe
751.6=276fpe
730

Big Lube PRS 255grain .452 (to small)
3000psi
669.8
686.4=266fpe
699.7=277fpe
689.8=269fpe

245grain REAL's from BHD, labeled ".457 un-sized"
3000psi
706.1=270
712.8=276
715.7=278
695.9=263 (this REAL was from a different batch)

Lyman Maxi Hunters 255grains (only had two)
3200psi
673.3=256fpe
696.7=274fpe
693.4=272fpe (this third shot was a .452 PRS 255grain)


My friends' stock (older) 909.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x65/butcher45/EnergyChart-1.gif
Title: RE: real good power......
Post by: melloroadman on March 10, 2010, 03:46:07 PM
I have the 909w . It is a good rifle but in stock forum they are a little under powered . But I do not know what you are going to use the rifle for . I have a 201 S that I like better than the 909w . Just as much energy , lighter , shorter , and a adjustable trigger . It has a better chocking handle and that is a issue with the 909 line of rifles if you shoot a lot . For about the same amount of money but with a 3 -4 month wait you can have a much more powerful rifle made for you . I have a 32 J.H. and I have a 452 on order from him . If I had known then what I know now I would not have bought the Korean guns . Buy the way if you add up the cost of the Korean rifle and a good tune you will have spent as much if not more for it than the J.H. Here is his site good luck . By the way they are all good rifles but some are better than others My 909 averages about 630 fps with a 143 grain round ball in stock forum . .Marvin
http://www.southernairgunconversion.com/
Title: RE: real good power......
Post by: Butcher on March 10, 2010, 05:04:52 PM
I recall your reports on the velocities you were getting with your SamYang 909.  Do you know of others whose SamYangs had the same luck?  I am hard pressed to recall of another report of a stock SamYang shooting that slow (630fps).  Didn't you mention returning it to PyramidAir for repair, then getting it back still getting the slower velocities?

     I do recall hearing that those 201's can be tuned for some monstrous power, meaning HIGH velocity.  Flat shooters, with roughly the same energy being transfered as a 909 (maybe just a little bit less fpe, but still much faster) with a lighter boolit.  Devastating small game round for sure.

Regardless, I agree that in stock form they are a bit under-powered.  A good power-tune really maximizes the potential of the Korean guns.

     Yes the 909 cocking lever issue, after breaking several of them I realized that I needed to apply some teflon tape to the screw that holdsg the bolt handle onto the hammer.  The screw would come loose with use, and when that happened the hammer would be slightly cant'ed when the
Title: RE: 909 problems/issues......
Post by: Butcher on March 10, 2010, 05:41:28 PM
Without the teflon tape, the screw would come loose after repeated cocking.  When that happened, apparently the hammer would slightly cant, and grind into the tube wall during cocking.  This further messed-up the screw and also would bend the part of the cheap cocking lever that fits onto the hammer, weakening it quickly.  I've had better luck with the teflon tape helping to secure the screw....it seems to be working well.  Even so, I try to always be conscious of the cocking lever issue, and check mine with the screwdriver every so often to make sure the screw is %100 secure.  A new/better cocking-lever design for the 909 would be nice.
 
     One of the most frustrating experiences I had with my SamYang is when a breech seal would blow out from under the breech slide.  Lot's of people complain about his happening with their 909 guns.  You have to remove the barrel from the receiver in order to change the o-ring.  On a hunt this really sucks, as you have to re-sight your rifle after changing the seal.  
     My original breech-sleeve appeared to be made of to cheap a metal, and either distorted from the pressure, or was not up to spec to begin with.  It started to spit out breech o-rings with regularity.  I had a new breech-sleeve custom-made out of stainless steel about a year and a half ago and haven't blown a breech ring yet.  Sam Yang's production standards had gone way down from where they used to be.  Maybe they are getting better again I don't know.  My friends early production 909 has a much beefier/higher quality breech sleeve (I don't think that ones likely to distort), and just clicking the safety on that early production 909 screams quality leaps and bounds above my own 909.  Nicer wood and bluing then my own for sure.  It would hurt to put a camo paintjob over it.
     And of course the Korean fill probe set-up just blows chunks.  Some people have had luck with them but others have terrible luck with them.  I suggest ordering the foster adapter for any of those Korean guns before you even get the gun.
Title: RE: 909 problems/issues......
Post by: melloroadman on March 11, 2010, 02:35:23 AM
I did send it to P.A. and they did the repairs . It averages about 100 fps faster than befor the repairs .Here are the numbers . If you look at what they advertise the rifle at you will see it is very close to it . And we all know the advertized fps is not the real world . I will all so list the R.B. string . They are good rifles but under powered . Also note the difference in shoot count of useable shoots of a stock rifle to one that is tuned if you are thinking of haveing that done as well Also when I spoke to LeRoy about doing the tunes on my 201 or 909 he said the 201 was the way to go and the cost at that time was $250.00 Marvin
909 .457 R.B. 143 grain 3000 psi fill
1 665
2 644
3 651
4 626
5 610
6 598
7 575
8 560
Left top row is befor repairs
Title: RE: 909 problems/issues......
Post by: Butcher on March 11, 2010, 05:39:39 AM
Your 909 is still 75fps off from advertised 700fps.  IMO that's a lot.  I looked into it, and did find another 909 owner that reported (several years ago) getting the same velocities your 909 is now getting.  I think Sam Yang has quality control issues at times.  I have heard of PA rejecting entire batches of 909 guns.  My own SamYang 909 has terrible machine work on the inner part of the tube that contains the hammer.  The new 909S's look like they have much nicer wood like the old-school 909 guns had.

     Most of the SamYang chrony strings I see people doing with their rifles are right at, or above the advertised speed of 700fps with RB.  The 909S's I see people testing actually have more power than advertised (around 230-240+fpe shooting a 255grainer).  My buddies old 909 gets over 760fps with RB for over 180fpe, and gets 211fpe shooting 245grain REAL's (6 shots over 200fpe with the seventh being 194fpe).  I wish they would go back to that standard of production.  I can't get over the difference in quality.

     You can't really trust the chrony numbers people report on these bigbores unless the muzzle is a good distance from the chrony.  Lots of false readings (both slow and fast) from the airblast.  That's why I like to set it back a standard 10 feet.

     I've seen you post 909 "W" before and thought it was a typo.  What does the "W" mean?
Title: RE: 909 problems/issues......
Post by: melloroadman on March 11, 2010, 06:44:25 AM
P.A. site use to stae that the W  means the rifle has a air gauge .And the site still states fps is 650 fps with 180 grain bullets . The 700 fps does not state what they shoot throught the rifle to get 700 fps . I do not want to argue with you all I wanted to do was answer the mans questions .My rifle is shooting right at what they state . Marvin
Title: Re: Thinking Of Getting a Sam Yang
Post by: Jaymo on March 11, 2010, 02:27:15 PM
Amen to the Foster QD fitting. It's worlds better than the fill probe.
Title: OK I made Up my Mind
Post by: bil601 on March 11, 2010, 03:34:39 PM
Unless I can find an older gun for $300-$350 Ill just put the money toward a better gun, or make one myself. The 909 just doesnt seem like it has the kind of power Im looking for. I always thought with a real good tune & a longer barrel I could get close to 500fp out of a 909. Quick conect fittings are $40. That puts the price at $600. Jack Haleys basic gun is $650 last I looked. Thanks fo all the input. Charlie
Title: RE: 909 problems/issues......
Post by: Butcher on March 11, 2010, 06:43:07 PM
Argue?  Huh?  No argument here with anything you are saying about the Korean guns Melloroadman.  I believe your reports on your 909W to be accurate, and believe everything you have said about it.  Not sure how you read what I said otherwise.

     I just wanted to know what the W stood for, and made some observations about Sam Yangs history of fluctuating quality control.  I figured the advertised FPS of 700fps for the 909 on PyramidAirs site was for roundball, seeing as the 180grainers are doing 650fps and there aren't a lot of weights available between 180grains and 143grains.
Title: Charles..
Post by: melloroadman on March 12, 2010, 03:08:57 AM
If you are trying to keep the cost down try and find a used 201 S . Even if it does not hold air . They are easy to reseal and if you are going to tune it any ways it does not matter . They are capable of taking pig , deer or what ever a 909 is capable of taking . The energy is about the same and the difference in the bleed hole is not enough to make that much difference in the time the animal dies or the size of the blood trail . Bigger is not always better . I would not hesitate to buy a 201 if I could not wait or come up with the cash for a J.H. Marvin
Title: Re: Thinking Of Getting a Sam Yang
Post by: Butcher on March 13, 2010, 05:38:28 AM
Korean guns get pretty tight fps variances from what I've seen when you get the fill pressure right.  5 shots inside of a maximum 20fps like you see on some of the strings Melloroadman posted is very good performance...... much better than most non-Korean bigbores.  Lots of useable shots at the same point of aim in those strings.  
     A tuned 201 shooting around 150grains sounds like a flat-shooting winner to me.  Remember that penetration is more a function of heavy-for-caliber boolit weight/sectional density, than caliber alone.  Caliber is all about the size of the wound channel.
Title: Re: Thinking Of Getting a Sam Yang
Post by: Jaymo on March 14, 2010, 08:26:18 AM
I wouldn't use any big bore air gun on a feral hog. .44 mag takes an average of 2 shots to drop a hog. They are big, tough, and very mean. I'd use a .444 with 300 grain bullets, a .45-70, or something in the .30-06 class of power, weight, diameter, and velocity.
You always meet people with stories about how their dad used to shoot his domestic hogs in the head with a .22 LR to slaughter them. BUT there is a HUGE difference between  a domestic hog in a pen that's standing there looking up at you, and a feral pig that's running toward you, and the more powerful the round, the better.
Title: Re: Thinking Of Getting a Sam Yang
Post by: Butcher on March 15, 2010, 06:43:42 AM
I've stood about 20 yards from a 300lb wild hog that was looking right at me, armed with only my single-shot SamYang.  I felt fairly stupid at that moment.  Luckily the hog ran off in a different direction.  

     Most bigbore airguns will do the job with a brain-shot using a decent sized slug, but I don't like to limit my shot placement like that.  Hogs are just to twitchy, especially ones that are heavily hunted.  I would only use the most powerful bigbore airguns with a fairly heavy boolit for taking body shots on large boar hogs.

     These guys got lucky in more ways than one.  From what they say on the video, it appears they had already shot the hog, and left it for dead.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8838826276057835069&q=hog+hunting+video&hl=en%3C/a#
Title: Marvin
Post by: Jaymo on June 19, 2010, 07:03:24 AM
You might want to check your bolt and breech tube for roughness. Mine both need to be honed/polished. Roughness of either will slow down bolt travel and reduce velocity. I'm going to hone/polish both of mine and then either coat them with dry graphite or dry moly spray.
I'm thinking about making a burnishing tool for the breech tube. That way, I can smooth it out without removing metal.
Title: Jatno
Post by: melloroadman on June 19, 2010, 02:30:26 PM
Boris told me he polished it when I sent it in for repair . Yes I might tear it apart and check it out myself . Both rifles I have been told have the same valve . The 201 has less chamber area to fill and appears to handle the valveing better from the factory . The 909 is not that bad but it is not what every one thinks it is either . The 201 has a adjustable trigger and just a little better quality IMO . The power is so close in both rifles I have thought about trading or selling the 909 if I don't play with it this winter .Marvin
Title: Re: Thinking Of Getting a Sam Yang
Post by: Butcher45 on July 22, 2010, 11:01:24 PM
     How is the trigger of the 201 adjusted?  The new 202's are advertised as being two-stage non-adjustable.  Thinking of getting an Ultra sometime down the road.  The Ultra is advertised as being a two stage adjustable.  They used to advertise the 909 as having an adjustable trigger, which it does not as far as I can tell.

     On a separate note, I notice that the new 909S is advertised to have a two stage non-adjustable trigger, whereas the new 909 is said to have a single stage trigger.  Interesting.  Must be due to fixing the old issue that caused the gun to go off when the cocking lever was hit wrong.

     I found out that storing my 909 with a full fill of air distorts the exhaust valve over time.  I sent it to Will Piatt for repair.  It was maxing out at 260fpe.....now I'm getting 270-285fpe out of my Leroy-tuned 909 as you can see from the numbers I posted at the beginning of this thread.  

     I just yesterday broke my fourth or fifth cocking lever.  Going to have to get one fabricated.